miah999

@Wastelander I think you misunderstand why the crossbow would be redundant in the current game. Yes crossbows are better then bows in real life, but the game currently doesn't model the stats to make any noticeable difference between the two.

So unless Hinterland wants to overhaul the general systems underneath weapon functions it just won't be worth it to add a crossbow, different rifles, or other ranged weapons. Right now from what I know about how bullets are modeled in TLD, I'm not sure the revolver will be functionally different from the current rifle. Hinterland was never planing to make Medal of Duty, so they just didn't build in the systems needed to model a variety of different weapons.

Ok slow it down folks, let's get back to the topic of weapons, and not comparative environmental sciences.

So, where were we, The last posts I read were on pistols or crossbows. 

When it comes to the revolver already in the roadmap (which may or may not come true), I believe it is intended more for the story play than sandbox. The revolver's small size makes it perfect for killing NPCs, not so great for bears or wolves. (But that depends or caliber)

As for a crossbow, I don't know how common these things are in Canada. If they are quite common then finding one may not be out of the question, but I do feel it would be redundant to the current bow. Unless Hinterland would like to develop a deep complex system of weapon mechanics and stats, having multiple weapons of the same class (i.e. more than one rifle type) would not serve much point, other than aesthetic.

41 minutes ago, Boston123 said:

Clarification: they are complex in different fashions.

With atlatls, both the dart and the throwing arm have to have high degrees of flexibility. Too little, and the lever is not effective

With a bow, just the bowstave has to flex. Of course, having arrows spined to the bowstave is nice, but not truly necessary. I can fire a range of arrows from my bow, and they will all be relatively accurate. Long, short, flexible, stiff, not too much difference. The bow does most of the work.

Plus, atlatls are only really effective on megafauna, and/or over open terrain. In close-in, forested terrain, and on smaller animals, the bow will be more effective. Less body movement.

I would know. I have made, and used, both. I vastly prefer the bow. It is easier to carry, easier to make ammunition for, and easier to use. I was not impressed with atlatl darts made from phragmite shafts. I was very impressed with arrowshafts made from phragmite cane, to the point where it is my preferred material to date.

My survival guide has a section on primitive weapons. It completely ignores the atlatl, and focuses on the bow. 

But, to each their own, I suppose.

No one is saying the atlatl is better than the bow, we we're discussing whether it was better than a thrusting spear. Your making an argument where none was necessary.

I too have made simple bows, atlatls, thrusting spears, even swords. The question is what knowledge the game character should have, not what knowledge we have.

Just now, cekivi said:

True. Unless we forget how to make them after a civilization falls.

Quite right, that's why I own so many books, on everything from coal gasification, to gun smiting.  You can never be too careful.

3 hours ago, Boston123 said:

Atlatls are as complicated, if not more, than bows, actually. Bows are simpler, and are more effective for both the terrain and the animals we are going to hunt.

There are reasons, after all, why the atlatl fell out of favor around the end of the last Ice Age. 

No they're not more complicated, they're a stick with a notch at the end, you can make one in 15 minutes.

The atlatl fell out of favor because the bow has far greater range, power, and accuracy. 

More complex tools do not proceed less complex tools. 

7 minutes ago, cekivi said:

Ditto. Unless you're a secret Olympian I don't think many modern people would have the speed, strength or accuracy to make throwing spears viable. However, everyone can improvise something to thrust at a wolf to try and ward it off

Not a fan of the crossbow. Making the trigger mechanism (or anything requiring precise mechanisms) would still be very difficult. Especially with no prior experience, knowledge or practice. Just being able to make a survival bow is already a bit of a stretch.

Actually throwing a spear with an atlatl is pretty easy, anyone can learn how, and do it fairly well. I have at least one survival guide that includes instructions for one.

Note I'm a overweight, average strength, person, so if I can do it most folks should be able to.

As for the crossbow, I wouldn't mind finding one, but I'd never trust myself to build one.

38 minutes ago, danicusrex said:

+1 for a spear. 400,000 years of humanity can't be wrong.

 

Then the question becomes what kind of spear we'd like. A large neanderthal style thrusting spear, or the homo sapiens' bone tipped throwing spear, made an even better range weapon with the use of an atlatl, or both kinds of spears.

35 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

Spears can be even simpler than that - simply take a relatively straight, long stick, sharpen it and harden the tip over a fire. This has worked for around 50.000 years.

Simple spears can be pretty useful and it wouldn't hurt to have a walking stick as well.

Also a "modern" makeshift spear can be even easier to make (no fire or whittling), kitchen knife + broom handle + duct tape = spear. It won't last long, and probably won't stop a bear, but might keep a wolf at bay. There are ways to improve on this concept that can make it more durable. They are throw-able, but in my experience most folks suck at spear chucking without much practice, or an atlatl.

Also duct tape would be nice in general, has a lot of uses even clothing repair.

6 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

The idea is awesome, however, including them in TLD would be using them commercially so I guess Hinterland would still have to pay license fees. I'd be willing to write some stuff for Hinterland free of charge though - despite me being a grown up man, I am horifically good at writing cheesy romance fiction so cringeworthy you keep on reading it despite your brain melting because of the sheer stupidity of what you're reading

It depends, the true old public domain works, can be used commercially with no fee. It varies by work, but you'd be surprised how many works can be found without any copyrights these days.

However, getting some original short stories or novellas written by fans could be awesome. 

Also never work for free. Trust me.

What about an actual book or books? Project Gutenberg has tons of real book that are public domain, that could be included as a was to pass time. Read a page or two of a classic while you wait for that blizzard to pass. 

oh well.

I've got it!

Taxidermy!

Cover your walls in dead things yeah!

41 minutes ago, Mystral21 said:

+1 to add mini-game like wood carving, painting, puzzles...
it can be very usefull when waiting for a blizzard to pass instead of "sleeping in the bed"

Ohh, a 1000 piece puzzle you spend months completing only to find out that 1 piece was missing all along.

16 minutes ago, continuity said:

I'd rather have survival be made more challenging, you should never, ever have downtime to waste in a survival game. if you do then the balance is off. 

Um, I have to differ, I've spent a lot of time in the wilderness, there's not a lot to do to just survive. It's not like there's a place you have to go in TLD (traveling takes more work), so the surviving part is not hard. That's how it is in the woods, that's why you bring cards, light weight, and lots of uses.

1 minute ago, iSUGGESTthings said:

I, for one, would be totally okay if they wanted to give us a few mini games to play. Just to pass the time, when your stats are totally full and you're not tired, or if you're waiting for a blizzard to pass. If you find a deck of cards, it could have its own game menu where you can play games in real time to kill game time. Anything like board games, or puzzles of all kinds, all of this type of distraction and games and boredom-killing fun that can be used when we have downtime, so there is less time sleeping or using the pass time button (simply for lack of anything better to do).

Find a deck of cards and play solitaire, when the real time cooking gets added it might be neat to move some cards around while your dear stew boils down.