Niev

@haft2doit I thought about rewriting the main post as reading it again it doesn't exactly convey what I meant, and discussing with you all I realized the argument is more nuanced than what I originally thought, but I wouldn't want to "spam" the forums or anything by recreating the topic, if it's okay for the admins we could agree on a bullet point list and maybe make it circulate a bit on reddit etc. as a sort of updated feedback topic for 2020, but only if we're all on board @Dan_ I will man, glad you agree and coming back from the game (having played again in the last two days) I can confirm everything, it was again like a drug for the first 4-5 hours, then I got to Coastal Highway (after an incredibly tough voyage) settled, started curing my leathers and saplings and came to the conclusion: "oh, now I need to do the clicking simulator for 30 in-game days and then move on somewhere else.. no thanks" it's always the same for me! I just wish I could do more stuff with all the good looting I did.. @odizzido the story is another point that I should have addressed bette in the OP as there are more people who like it than I thought, I really didn't like it that much, it's not at all horrible or anything but the writing is all over the place and the objectives are sometimes nonsensical for the type of game that this is. Creating convincing NPCs and stories is very hard even for AAA developers, they achieved a good result but ultimately I still feel it's a bit of a waste of resources, but I absolutely respect your opinion on it and hope we can all get what we like from TLD @Vince 49 agree, that's what I meant with "different brands/qualities of items", different kinds of cleaning kits, pots, matches and everything would add a lot of immersion and purpose for exploration @darkscaryforest I like the exploration a lot too, in the sense of moving from one place to the next strategizing on resources, optimal travel paths and condition, that's the thing the game does better as it ties with the amazing immersion and audio/visual quality that it has, freezing to death and finding refuge in a derailed train cart never gets old for me. Random generation would kill this game IMHO, a lot of what makes it special is how handcrafted everything is, the maps are not big but they're incredibly detailed and hard to navigate (in a good way), as for the risk of "item bloating" look, I don't want them to add hundreds of new materials systems and mechanics, the game should remain simple and straightforward, but at the moment I feel it is too simple, bordering on barebones. We've discussed lots of possible features that wouldn't make it overwhelmingly complex but give you a lot more choice in how you want to pass time in the game, and also adding higher goals besides just surviving (in sandbox mode), stuff that you would only be able to complete after a lot of hours, which would require high skill developement (which takes time) and rare materials and items, the only things I would add are things that reward the most proficient survivors with more things to do, that's all As for modding in general (respoding to a couple of you) I read a couple topics made in the past about TLD and modding, and even though they seem to be opening up to the idea it seems the general atmosphere is hostile towards modders and mods, and to that: people don't mod your game because they hate it, they mod it because they love it! modders usually open up new paths and create new ideas that are implemented by the official developers, think about it, it's free work that you can use to expand the game without spending money, and modders themselves would be very willing to "work for free" so to speak just because they're so passionate about the game you created, I really hope Ralph and the others have changed their mind on the subject as their previous stance is nonsensical and antagonistic to modding for absolutely no good reason. People could use mods for cheating/flying around spawning full auto M4's in the game, what's the problem with that? do they ruin the experience for anyone other than themselves? and also why should there only be one way to enjoy TLD, and you decide it? don't be so jealous of your creation, it makes you look petty! As for the mod tools, it would be great if they were released but it rarely becomes a reality even in AAA games, so I'm a bit skeptical

which is valued and the fuel we need to have this discussion, if new stuff were to be added it would be important to listen to all fans and have multiple perspectives and opinions, as for the rest no ruckus for me, through internet and heat of discussion some things can sound different than what you actually mean, I understood it was the case and saw the good in it, so no problem here

@ManicManiac then I get you man, and it's a valid point of view, the game is special the way it is now and adding new stuff could easily break the balance, and I also agree that if you like it just the way it is then there is no "problem" with endgame. You made me think about it and in fact TLD is the only purely "corporeal" survival game out there, and with that I mean the main focus is purely keeping alive, and the challenge doesn't come from anything else, all of the items and the actions you perform are aimed at keeping you alive, not manipulating the world or asserting dominance over the situation, the soul of this game is being unable to do so and as a philosophical point I find it a powerful experience, my problems come more from the gameplay side of things I wouldn't want to lose the main feeling of the game, but only add stuff to do in it and give players more choice about what they can do their survival, I think it would improve the game and not dampen it in any way, but also as the admin has stated, all of these are just suggestions and will probably not end up in the game, Hinterland has the final word and seeing the recent updates I'm willing to give this game multiple chances, they deserve it @haft2doit I wasn't worrying about player counts in a practical way but more in a "I think the devs deserve better and there's something stopping this game's success, what could it be?" and as for the "book in the shelf" analogy it's actually very accurate to what I feel about it too, it's just that given the sheer quality of the game I would like it to be a whole book series that I could read for months and months on end, instead of a fleeting pleasure As for the features themselves that I feel are missing, and trying to narrow down the list as much as possible to give concise feedback to the devs about what stood out the most to me while playing (technically and content wise): Inability to hop over very small obstacles and generally clunky movement, when I'm carrying 30 kg of stuff I expect to be slow and clunky but that's all the time, encumberance actually plays less of a factor than in games like Skyrim, which is crazy Absence of physics and related baggage (can't carry stuff dynamically, strange collision detection, invisible slopes spraining you, can't personalize spaces or move furniture) Limited interactivity and unusable resources that are nonethless available but "static", no curing meat, lack of very basic and realistic building, things you would do given the time and expertise in an apocalypse Little variety in items, no brands or qualities outside of %numbers, nothing ever surprises you after a couple hours of gameplay, looting becomes tedious Wonky AI that can break immersion and be exploited easily Auroras are impressive and unique in all their features, expand on them! maybe make them the key to getting electricity back in some places, make them more useful and exciting occasions I'm no expert in canadian wildlife, but shouldn't there be a couple extra animals? birds, insects, surviving dogs maybe? And that's mostly it I think ,these are the things that make me leave the game after a couple hours even with its beautiful atmosphere and immersion, this game needs a bit of fleshing out IMHO and after that it could easily become a real masterpiece, something you could easily sell at full price and keep thousands of players happy for years, and that's all, I'll come back in time for the next update and have fun again.. till it lasts

And I want to stress, even though I got bored with it, how GOOD this game can feel, how deep and fascinating. The first hours are really incredible, the basic loop is very well done, all I'm hoping for is an expansion of said loop and new loops to work towards, bigger loops! and also @azdrawee I understood why manic wrote what he wrote, I understand him and I would never want the game he loves to be taken away for the sake of accomodating more players and dumbing it down, that's why I wanted to clarify that I'm advocating the opposite, I find it to be too simplistic and empty and want it to become more and more complex, not necessarily difficult, and always retaining player choice. If you don't want to do the new activities, you don't do them, I don't want the game to fundamentally change because it is very special just the way it is, I think it was just a misunderstanding

Manic we're on the same side, I love the game too and I want it to become the best it can be, that's why I took the time to write this post and I will take the time to reply to everyone, we're all on the same side here, so please no "stop complaining and play something else", it's needlessly rude and antagonistic also I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to speak on your behalf and I absolutely understand and cherish your passion for the game, I really really didn't want to put words in yours or anybody else's mouths, I was just looking at the numbers and thinking: "how can a game this well crafted, this atmospheric and emotional have such a relatively low success rate compared to vastly inferior games in the same genre?" then I kept playing and playing and it became clearer each minute.. lack of content! so I put 2 and 2 and tried to deduce the silent opinion, it might be right it might not, I just gave my two cents, really no ill will on my part and again sorry if it didn't come clearer (also sorry if my english is not always perfect, I'm not even american and I live in a pretty hot country, I'm a bit of an outsider here ) And so my question to you becomes simple: do you think it would detract from the game if we were able to, for example, move a couch in front of the fire to make a cozy retreat from the cold that looks exactly like we want? would it detract if we could build primitive furniture and storage with the saw, if we could (with enormous cost) cut down a tree and use it for crafting and fuel? would it make the game worse if we had pens, pencils to write stuff in the journal or maybe make a painting to hang in our living room? I think you would agree with me that these would be organic, immersive and absolutely natural features that would fit perfectly in this game, the list is near endless and I don't want a thousand different activities, but maybe a dozen fun extra things to work towards? I'm not imagining this as an "easy mode" but the exact opposite, and outlet for very proficient survivors (such as you, with 1400 hours!) to make survival games worth surviving outside of just watching the numbers grow.. I'm talking about raw content, new stuff to play with, wouldn't that make you happy? I have to say, this comment here made me feel a bit frustrated, it's like you know perfectly what I'm talking about but decide to ignore it: WHY would anyone surviving in the harsh canadian winter decide to all of a sudden leave their home and start a death march to someplace else? why do you feel the need to restart the game once you get too comfy? because there's absolutely nothing to do with your resources, nothing to work towards! there is no content at all after you have all you need, the game is over unless you decide to do something stupid, wouldn't it be better if we could expend these resources and invest them to make something? something for our pleasure, or for practical survival, or something to prepare us for an even higher goal that they could implement in the game, like getting electricity again, salvaging a solar panel, again the list is ENDLESS but it seems we have given up on new meaningful content, and as fans I feel we should keep the developers to a higher standard, they have a lot of talent and this game is incredibly professional, I just feel it lacks in raw content.. Hope I cleared it up, I'll be happy to read your reply

Hello everyone and before you read this long post I want you to know I am in no way attacking the game or the devs, I played the game a fair bit and I totally get how passionate they are about it and I don't want to ruin anyone's mood, but before leaving the game for a while I thought it would be nice to share my feedback I don't normally do this, but this game gave me a lot of emotion and I feel it's just fair that I take a bit of my time to let the devs know how I felt about it, my impressions might be more common than they seem.. I can't bring myself to play this game after 60-70 hours, for several reasons. Essentially, the game is at its most fun when you're almost dying, freezing and without supplies, it really shines in these moments and the devs' vision comes to life beautifully, the problem arises when you have stuff and you get good at the game. It becomes boring, a clicking simulator without any depth, you start to see the code behind the game instead of the game itself, and it's the worst thing that can happen. Why doesn't the long dark have 10's or even 100's of thousands of players concurrently instead of just thousands? this is by far the most beautiful, immersive and deep survival game out there, it originally surprised me when I discovered it but now I think I understand.. it's not that deep! after the first hours of absolute wonder, it becomes really really repetitive, boring and slightly depressing to play. I understand it's supposed to be like that, and in a way you're not supposed to have stuff, you're supposed to wander around always on the brink of death and that's the game at its best. But.. Every survival game has this phase in its gameplay, when you're weak and defenseless and you have to gather strength, TLD is ONLY about that phase, when you become stronger and full of stuff there's nothing to do, literally. You just have to eat/drink/sleep and you win, that's the game. I've been reading the forums and reddit for a while and it seems the solution the community found was "self imposed challenges", basically ignore certain parts of the game in order to get more enjoyment out of it, and that's perfectly fine I do it all the time in most games I play, the problem I find with this one is that outside of said "challenges" the game is terribly EMPTY! do I have to do the developers work for them? I'm sorry guys but sometimes while playing I feel.. cheated, it's like 10% of a survival game with a superb atmosphere, good but ultimately pointless exploration (always the same 30 items.. no variation) and nothing else, it's like minecraft without interactivity, or 7DTD without crafting, it feels unfinished and lacking in content. What would make me come back to the game and what is essentially my criticism of it? once you're geared up and moderately comfortable on Great Bear, the fun is over. If all the fun in the game comes from not being good at it or playing an artificial version in your head (self imposed challenge) or playing interloper with even less variety in gameplay, can I really say it's a good game? can I suggest it to my friends? I have to be honest and say no, and I don't like it because I see how passionate the developers are and I know it's their first game, but when you look at it objectively, this game is unfinished and in need of more content. We need something to DO with our resources, outside of keeping ourselves fed and clothed and healthy. We need simple building, build a table or a cupboard, or a rack for drying pelts and meat. We need use for basic survival tools and materials, stuff that is everywhere in this world but it's not used: plastic, rubber, copper, natural gas, salt, sugar, different metals, power tools, all the stuff that you see in the game but can't interact with. We need a higher goal both in survival and story mode, like finding out ways to restore electricity or basic industry, helping random NPCS that can die at any time, we need very basic physics so we can carry branches to our camp/cave instead of being forced to freeze to cut it right where it stands instead of moving it 20 meters away where it's safer, or be able to move a cupboard or couch (with caloric cost of course) to personalize my living space, guys anything would be better than the barebones experience we have now. It's too niche and I feel it's a waste, because adding more stuff doesn't detract anything from the game and you can always give players the options to disable it, or play "self imposed challenges" without it, it worked up to now didn't it? you could very well have a game that sucks you in for more than 200 hours a game with what you have here! let the first 50 be exactly as they are now with hoarding, raising skills, learning new stuff and stabilizing, and from then on give the player a chance to assert themselves over nature again if they are skilled enough, use books to lock the extra stuff for natural progression, you found a "Basic Chemistry" book, "Basic Building" you slowly get better at it and gather more tools and stuff. And i don't want an "easy mode" with this, let me build and then take it all away with a 7-day blizzard, or a giant wolf pack that sets camp right outside my door, allow me to fall from grace and feel actual loss from having to move on and change location, do MORE! ... Outside of pure content problems, the technical state of the game is good but sometimes wonky. The inability to not jump, but at least HOP, or just raise your feet more than 20cm off the ground is just insanity, it breaks immersion constantly and makes you feel like you're not actually controlling your character in-game, would it really be that difficult to implement guys? AI is very difficult to program realistically so I won't blame the devs too much but.. please fix the pathfinding, whenever wildlife gets stuck somewhere it emits a loop of sounds that break immersion, it sounds like a machine gun. As I already said this game would benefit amazingly from very simple physics, it's probably also why we can't properly jump.. and one last thing about the story, just a thought. The story is just mediocre, not bad and not good, but I see you are focusing a lot on it with voice acting and writing. Do you really feel the game is complete and the only thing missing is the story? is it really the top priority in terms of money allocation? isn't it a bit of a waste especially considering the mixed reception? for 90% of your players the story is not important at all, actually the sense of mistery and wonder is a bit ruined when you play it, I don't want to be disrespectful and tell you how to do your job, but at least from my perspective, is it really worth it to spend that much time and focus on something most players just ignore or don't like? just my two cents.. Sorry for the long post, but I think it speaks volumes on how much I liked this game and how strongly I feel about it, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. Keep up the great work, and I hope to come back one day to a more complete survival experience, this game can easily become a 10/10 masterpiece with a few extra years of content and updates, for now it's a brilliant seed of a game that doesn't exist yet, and what exists right now is fun for a while but ultimately pointless and boring, except when you lose everything and then it gets fun again for half an hour, rinse and repeat.. give us a higher goal and this loop will become 10x more addicting, because you're building up to something, instead of just passing days without any real goal and that's it, hope we can have a nice discussion on this, and thank you for reading