lyttol

Members
  • Content Count

    18
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

9 Wolfbait

About lyttol

  • Rank
    Survivor
  1. Hi there @Ankster91, As @Comet777 says the motherload of loot is on top of the summit on timberwolf, and it can be fun working out how to get there. If your gameplay evolves in the direction of trying harder settings (interloper and beyond), then random loot becomes more sparse and you will want to start knowing where the 100% spawns are. But while you are in this golden phase of the game where you are still exploring on the easier levels, I agree with everyone else's advice, enjoy exploring everywhere, knowing where all the cars and buildings are will come in useful if you go for the harder levels...
  2. So taking Milton for example. We would define local population labels so all cat tails belong to one of the following (you could have more or less areas depending on what granularity you wanted): Milton Basin Lower Milton Basin Upper Long stream Lower portion Long stream Upper portion Pond near Radio Tower Pond below crashed plane Church Pond Moose Pond Spruce Falls Bridge Pond Mystery Lake Ravine Milton Town Pond And each one would get a health modifier between 0.5 and 2.0 (or 0.25 and 4 or whatever) that modifies the spawn probability for each cat tail... This would ensure a more uneven and unpredictable distribution of cat tails between games, increasing replayability... Hope its clear...
  3. Even with the spawn chance set to low for bunnies and deer, all the animals always appear (when they do) in the same locations. For example, the trailer in milton on loper. One deer appears right in front of the trailer door. Its either there or its not, its never there when you walk out, but if you do a little loop around the woodpile, and you are lucky, poof it magically appears. There are two bunnies on the pond where the moose sometimes spawns, and two on the path up to HRV (or sometimes just one). There is another deer that sometimes spawns if you continue on past the cave to HRV (which you can always push into the wolf that guards the road up past the moose pond. Is it apparent how my game has become a bit over predictable! ( I can give these sorts of details for most of most of the maps) (#get a life) It would be nice if not only the spawn chance but also the spawn location of deer and rabbits moved around. This seems to be the case for some of the wolf spawns which do seem to change about in a more unpredictable way. I am not asking for totally random, so you end up with bunnies in grey mother's porch, but that there be, for example, twice as many possible spawn locations for deer and rabbits, and that a subset of half of these are picked as "active" at the start of any run. If the animals get munched, then pick a new location from the subset of the 10 that are inactive to spawn the new animals, if and when the respawn event happens. (dependent on spawn chance settings and population decline. I think something like this already happens for the wolves, I would love to see this for the deer and rabbits too.
  4. Although run to run the exact location of cat tails varies, the laws of probability dictate that you still end up with roughly the same number of cat tails in each cat tail rich location. For example, if there are 100 spots on the milton basin where cat tails might appear with and independent probability of say 20%, you will always get around 20 cat tails in total. I would like the population of cat tails for each "cat tail location" to get rolled once, (so following the example, milton basin gets one random number between 10 and 40 cat tails and those cat tails are then randomly distributed around possible cat tail locations. I feel that this would make it more interesting. (A really simple way to implement this would be to assign each cat tail location a "local population label", and then modify the base spawn chance for each cat tail location by a "local population health modifier". In the example Milton Basin would be the local population label, the base spawn chance would be 0.2, and the local population modifier would a single random number between 0.5 and 2.0, for example!) I actually am quite happy with the other harvestable resources, because there tend to be far fewer of them, the variation is more meaningful.
  5. I agree with most of what you say @UpUpAway95, I think more loot tables is the way to go... I also agree that there is something unexpectedly positive that arrived with the publication of the loot tables, in terms of the chess like planning of your route based on working out what you need and where it is. As I've said before I'd like to be able to choose, which is why I'd love to have an option to choose between the Classic 4 loot tables, which are completely mapped out, or a new set of 10 loot tables (we seem to be using 10!) which no doubt the community will then start mapping! (which as I've said I think is a fun project!). As I said before, if we map out the ten, we can ask for more... Incidently, I'd be happy to throw down a decent bit of cash maybe 10$ just to have a new set of 10 loot tables added. LTF (loot table fatigue) is definitely an "experienced player problem" and I guess with the business model as is there is little incentive to do work that only really makes a difference for people who have already got a lot out of the game... You make a great point in the last paragraph about needing to find two items, to work narrow down your loot table. This would be the case if a placed key item could exist in more than one loot table. At the moment, they are unique to one and only one table. Of course for that to change the dynamic in the way you suggest, you would need to have access to all the loot tables the first item could have been placed by...(eg. Oh right, bedroll in cave near mystic river picnic area, if I'm on table 1 there will be a hacksaw on the summit of timberwolf but if I'm on table 7 then I'm gonna be out of luck... do I go all that way to find out, is there an alternative route that will narrow it down...) Of course this would be a long way off if we got a new set of 10 tables, since it will take the community time to map them, but I agree it would introduce a new element of luck and strategic planning at the early stages of the game. You would quite soon however, if you survive, narrow down your loot table and have a predictable rest of game in terms of key item placement. I still maintain that the placement of guaranteed match spawns irks me, but what-evs.... I am going to start new threads with the topics on predator-prey distribution and harvestable resources, as they are tangential to the main point of this thread.
  6. Yes, I agree, and I think it works both ways actually. Whether its hacksaws of rabbits, there should be a set of "possible" locations, from which a subset are randomly picked. For loot it happens when the game is created, and at the moment, for rabbit groves it happens over time. What I was trying to say about prey distribution is that I would like there to be perhaps twice as many possible rabbit groves (10 in your example) and deer locations, from which half are picked as active on any run, and then those five also fall over time to the population decline knife. (Also, once all rabbits from one grove are dead, if they are going to respawn, the next location is picked from the 10 possibles).This would really change how you would approach each map. As for hacksaws, what I am asking for (and I think @Alphyrion is the same on this), is that there are more possible and sensible hacksaw locations, (never inside dryer, sometimes in tricky occulded spots), and that the location of one item should not so easily predict the location of others. @Alphyrion and I have slightly different ideas about how this might be best achieved, see above!
  7. One little gem that gets me everytime is the last resort of being able to confuse wolves by running around a tree... 50% of the time I die horribly (was gonna anyway) and 50% of the time I end up laughing hysterically as the wolf runs off whimpering. Maybe not 100% realistic, but Just So Good.
  8. Right @stratvox . Good to know that "reduce wildlife population over time" kicks in at around 150 days. I have it set high, but often peace out at around 150 days once I have all the kit (bearskin+wolfskin etch). And by peace out I mean, get mauled to death by wolf coz I got bored and dumb! Can you elaborate what you mean by "good candidate for total randomization"?
  9. Thank you for elaborating your position so completely @Alphyrion seems the dialogue is developing in an interesting way to me. For me, I think that the sort of deep randomization you are suggesting might involve quite a lot of work for the dev team. I think that @Jeffpeng made some good points in his post here: I agree that we don't want shoes in ovens etc etc. And a lot of what is done already is perfect for me. For example, the distribution of thermal underwear in loper. You never know where or if you are going to get a second pair, and you can be fully tooled up and 100 days into the game, with wolf skins covering your walls and floor, and still yearning for that extra pair to complete your outfit... In fact, the distribution of clothing in general is already near perfect for me. I think the guaranteed mackinaw and combat pants and earmuffs in HRV is non-optimal, and there are some weird spots where clothes are nearly always present that could do with some sprucing up (the sports vest on the table in the office in pleasant valley farmstead, the ski jacket/down vest under the bed on timberwolf), but overall I love the fact that I spend my time yearning for wool socks and thermal undies, coz I can craft the rest given time... Love it. I even found a mackinaw jacket in a car boot in milton once. I nearly fell off my chair! I am also very happy with the distribution of cooking pots, can openers, recycled cans, and firewood of all varieties. Where it falls down more for me are the key items which are determined by one of the key four loot tables (I won't link it but you can google it easily). These are: Hacksaw Heavy hammer Magnifying glass Firestriker Bedroll Storm Lantern. And I would add the guaranteed match spawns to the list. (Farmstead basement metal shelf, grey mother's kitchen, etc) Knowing which loot table you are on allows you to effectively plan a route across the long dark to get what you need. Its ironic, because for me, finding that loot table actually enabled my loper play, because without it I was just dead all the time. And for a month its been great. As @jeffpeng alluded to, there is a chess-like element to the gameplay of planning your route which is actually really fun. So I really don't want this to be removed. But for all the reasons you elaborate so eloquently, I sometimes want to not know, and to be blazing crazy trails through blizzards holding on to hope alone... And be disappointed, and frustrated, and occassionally gob-smacked at my luck. As@jeffpeng points out there is a lot on the to do list for hinterland, so the more we ask for the less likely they are going to be able to give it to us. While I love the idea of a purely algorithmic approach to loot distribution, as @jeffpeng (yep, I liked his post!) points out, its a lot of work, especially if you try to catch all the possible "impossible" or just "unfun" random outcomes. For me I agree with his (kinda implied) suggestion of asking for a new set of 6 or 10 loot tables to keep the community guessing. (with a spruce up of the clothing and match locations too as I discuss above). To be clear, I want this as an option, not a replacement to what exists right now. I talk about this in my reply to @jeffpeng's post. If we get ten new loot tables, what will happen, People will start trying to map them out. We will want to learn what to expect, its a human thing to do. And its also fun. Trying to make the unpredictable predictable. And if the community ever post the google docs spreadsheet with the loot tables for the new set of ten loot tables, yep I'll be back asking for a new set of 20! etc etc.... It might seem like a watering down of your request, but I think its more likely we'll get it, and for me, it'd be very nearly as good. I do agree with what you say about more variety in the exact placement of loot items (I mean exact as in the same spot in the building or same place on the bed), but for me this is more cosmetic that fundamental. I also agree with what you say about harvestable resource placment and predator movement patterns. My thoughts on this would be as follows. Harvestable resources---- Although run to run the exact location of cat tails varies, the law of probability dictate that you still end up with roughly the same number of cat tails in each cat tail rich location. (If there are 100 spots on the milton basin where cat tails might appear with and independent probability of say 20%, you will always get around 20 cat tails in total) I would like the population of cat tails for each "cat tail location" to get rolled once, (so following the example, milton basin gets one random number between 10 and 40 cat tails and those cat tails are then randomly distributed around possible cat tail locations. I feel that this would make it more interesting. (A really simple way to implement this would be to assign each cat tail location a "local population label", and then modify the base spawn chance for each cat tail by a "local population health modifier". In the example Milton Basin would be the local population label, the base spawn chance would be 0.2, and the local population modifier would a single random number between 0.5 and 2.0, for example!) I actually am quite happy with the other harvestable resources, because there tend to be far fewer of them, the variation is more meaningful. Predator movement patterns---- (not sure quite what you mean (look forward to your elaboration of this) so I will talk about "Predator and Prey Distribution" Predator and Prey Distribution----- Even with the spawn chance set to low for bunnies and deer, all the animals always appear (when they do) in the same locations. For example, the trailer in milton. One deer appears right in front of the trailer door. Its either there or its not, its never there when you walk out, but if you do a little loop around the woodpile, and you are lucky, poof it magically appears. There are two bunnies on the pond where the moose sometimes spawns, and two on the path up to HRV (or sometimes just one). There is another deer that sometimes spawns if you continue on past the cave to HRV (which you can always push into the wolf that guards the road up past the moose pond. Is it apparent how my game has become a bit over predictable! ( I can give these sorts of details for most of most of the maps) (#get a life) It would be nice if not only the spawn chance but also the spawn location of deer and rabbits moved around. This seems to be the case for some of the wolf spawns which do seem to change about in a more unpredictable way. Would love to see this for the deer and rabbits too. I think this is sort of what you mean when you say " Maybe even help make new locations as suitable bases depending on an element of luck (rabbit spawn or less wolves nearby, for example)" ------ Thanks for reading to all those still awake!
  10. Thank you very much for collating all that info, frozen
  11. Thank you for the thoughtful response Jeffpeng. I agree that the game is excellent as is, its my favourite game EVER. (and I'm a gaming geek ) And I agree that having loot tables can be fun too, working out (either for yourself or via a spreadsheet) what routes to take based on what you've found is fun too. What I (and orignally Alphyrion (and others!?) are asking for is an option for something different, not to replace what exists already. And I don't agree with what you say in the first paragraph about needing a very smart algorithm to give a more randomized distribution of loot. Others have already suggested ways of doing it. (okay so a smart algorithm perhaps, its not trivial, but I don't think its super hard either) I hear that for you, you don't feel it would contribute as much to your experience as others things that are being worked on at hinterland, I respect that. For me, its the thing I would like to see the most. ---------------------------------------------------------- PS. Thinking some more about your 6 or 10 loot tables, there is a number of loot tables n (where n>4 and n<100) for which it is to all intents and purposes the same as the random algorithm that would be the alternative. I think setting the algorithm (or humans) to churn out say, 25 loot tables, and then removing loot tables by hand which were somehow "flawed" to leave a new set would be just as good for me. You could then have an option in setup to chose between the "Golden 4" tables or the "Twisted 20" tables. ( I mean more is better but 20 would keep the community busy for quite a while!) And by checking them over it removes the risk of randomly designed impossible games. Sorry that i sorta missed your suggestion in the second paragraph until I reread it. "My bad". <- (Please tell Canadian Immigration that this ex-pat Brit deserves his citizenship now, he even uses Canadian phrases...)
  12. I don't understand the seemingly toxic responses to Alphyrion's excellent suggestion. There are four loot tables that 100% predict the location of key items. Anyone who denies this doesn't know how to use Google. All he is asking for is an OPTION to better randomize the loot. Having played several loper and deadman games through to 100+ days I absolutely want this option too. The response of, "well don't look at the loot tables", FOR ME, goes in the same category of "just don't eat birch if you want deadman back", in terms of their helpfulness and insight. I want to set the game up hard and then be forced to work myself hard under the constraints I set initially. If this wasn't the ethos of the developers too, then why do they delete saved games THE MOMENT YOU DIE. Everyone should be free to play the game the way they want... So yes Alphyrion, right on, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give us an option that really randomizes locations of loot, his suggestions are what I want too.
  13. A little update on this. I am now on day 66 of the new run. I got a nice HRV starting point. Ran HRV through (the two sets of ice caves + monolith lake ). got the usual loot (mackinaw, ear muffs, combat pants etc). Hit the trailer in milton for rabbitey and deer clothes, pushing wolves off deer kills with fire for food. the usual. Dropped into the milton basin and across forlorn to the maintenance yard in broken railroad for the forge (30 arrows, knife, hatchet), then booked it to the trapper's cabin to shoot deer (3) and make the wolf coat. Got mauled badly by a wolf rushing to get back into the maintenance yard after a foolish sojourn in the broken railroad ravine, and stomped by a moose in front of the trapper's cabin. (turns out its better to try to make a quick exit through a door than the wall beside the door....) Luckily I had birched in between (ravine is good hospital). Now trying to find second bear for bearskin coat, and recover from Mr Moose. (such a purrdy satchel though...) Overall, flipping the parameters hasn't make as much difference as I'd hoped. It seems that everything spawns once to begin with anyway, so you get an easy food cart in any new area... Not really sure what to try next... Maybe try starting in desolation and coastal. The combo of HRV and Milton is just such a sweet (OP?) starting run... (so many cat tails in milton and milton basin!) Really hope they do some more rebalancing soon, would be great to feel that all starting locations held the same promise - > all equally horrifying . Also, need another difficulty setting beyond loper. Miss that crazy frozen rush across the landscape from when I was starting to try interloper! ("Deadman" - as a nod to those crazy souls who came up with it?)
  14. lyttol

    Snow conditions

    Oh, and one other thing which I think would be really nice is to be able to drag carcasses and large branches... Not far, and for a significant calorie and fatigue hit ( a bit like climbing up the ropes) but sometimes being able to drag a carcass or tree limb behind a tree or rock to shelter from wind or line of sight with wolves while cutting them up could make all the difference.... Awesome Game.
  15. lyttol

    Realistic Maps

    If story-mode is just a tutorial for new players, hinterland is seriously misdirecting their resources at the moment. And I disagree wtih ajb1978, (politely!), I went straight into hardened survivor mode without knowing the maps, I "feel" (gotta love the science behind that right) that a fair portion of players want a story-mode that can be as challenging as interloper or deadman. And even knowing the maps (as I do now), I still occassionally get turned around in a blizzard or fog, which is EXCITING. I don't want a little flashing position marker on my map. AND, what Pillock said. "Personally, I would prefer the map not to have sat-nav capabilities in the harder difficulty mode, though. And I'd prefer the objectives not to magically appear on the map, as well. It makes some of the missions, especially finding caches, pretty trivial. You don't even need to look for the things in the 'real' world, because you can just move your character until the map auto-location icon is over the thing you're after."