suggestion Better Blood Drops - Hunting Mechanics Tweaks

[cekivi]

Hunting in the Long Dark is one of my favourite aspects of the game and something that, I believe, still needs work. Now, while not everyone wants the Long Dark to be a hunting simulator I think everyone can agree that one thing needs to change: animal behaviour when wounded.

In the present game, animals only bleed when wounded if they're running away. If you lose line of sight (easy to do) than the animal stops running and no longer bleeds making them very hard to track (since the paw/hoof prints don't always appear properly). As a result, I've shot many an animal only to lose it once it got into the treeline because the blood trail disappears. Even if you do find an animal later, you can't tell if it's the one you shot (and therefore soon to bleed out) since it behaves like a normal creature until it suddenly collapses. What's worse, if it is wounded and you wound it again, it resets the original bleed timer! If you wounded an animal enough for it to bleed out and eventually die, than it should keep bleeding and act wounded until dead even if not being chased. If you shoot a wounded animal than the wounds should stack (and decrease the bleed out timer), not reset. This is one of my last major frustrations with this game and I'd love for it to be fixed before the game launches.

Lastly, if you'd like a trip into the archives, here are my original two posts on the subject:

 

 

[SteveP]

I have not personally tested the bleed out times however I think someone actually has done the experiments, at least according to the Wikia entry on hunting bleed times. The bleed timer does not reset however if you shot a bear in the foot and waited over an hour, when you next shoot it in the head, the new wound bleed timer (now shorter) resets according to the original hit but the bleed out rate is faster. This results in an instant kill. This experiment was described in the Longest Rifle Shot Challenge.

[SteveP]

Yeah, the blood trails are really difficult because game will often head up steep terrain where we cannot follow. I have seldom had much success with blood trails but I have seen videos of TWM where the blood trails were very helpful hints to locating wounded wolves esp if you have a torch going so the wolves run by you but don't attack. You can often spot them just by crouching and being observant around you. The really steep cliffs in Timber Wolf mean the wolves stay on your accessible level. In Coastal Highway, escape into the hills is too easy unless you hunt on the Lake where the animals are easier to pursue.

[Drifter Man]

My experience with hunting is limited but I've observed the following:

- Deer don't stop bleeding, run erratically and frequently change direction. As a result, they tend to stay (more or less) in the same area. They keep running at full speed until they suddenly drop to the ground. Following their blood trail is difficult, it often crossess itself numerous times and then you don't know in which direction the deer has run away. So far the best method for me was to stand still and wait if it comes back. If it doesn't, search the nearby areas and hope to get lucky.

- Wolves tend to run in one general direction, unless there is an obstacle, and can be more easily followed using their blood trail. I haven't seen a wolf stop bleeding but I don't say it can't happen. After a while they slow down, start limping and then you have a chance to catch up. I'd like to see this type of behavior with other animals as well.

- Bears run away like wolves (assuming they cannot charge), but after a while they stop bleeding and return to their original location and go on with their patrol as if nothing had happened. But their timer keeps ticking and when it runs out, they suddenly die. Following their blood trail is a waste of calories and time, it's better to stay in place and wait for them to return.

Deer and bear behavior is strange. I'd like to know if others have similar experience with wounded animals.

[Hatchet]

Breaking line of sight does not work with a bear, i just tested it, shot a bear in the head, broke line of sight, had bear running around for ~40 hours, then it died.
Bear did not have a single bloodspatter so i thought i didn't hit him because since the last update (real update) i had the feeling my gun was glitched and i was shooting blanks, but no, sometimes animals do not react when shot, do not bleed, but will die after a while (exploit stat screen to see when you killed a certain animal, i only advise this exploit when testing things, it breaks immersion)
After a bit of more testing i found out it's a glitch (i will report this after more testing) when shooting an animal with the rifle on a hit you should see blood spewing out of the wound right after you shot it, 50% of the times this does not occur, if this does not occur animal will not leave any blood splatters on the ground but the animal will die eventually.
Also, when you fire a "blank" and hit the animal with it, the animal will run for about 10-15 sec regardless if you break line or sight or not, the animal will continue to walk again and then suddenly drop dead.

So yeah, you're 100% correct when you say that wildlife needs a lot of tweaking, a whole lot of tweaking!

I've never seen a wolf limp, and i've been playing since october, probably killed a few hundreds of them by now.

[Drifter Man]

I have only killed 30-40 wolves so far, mostly with the bow. When injured by an arrow, but not instantly killed, the wolf runs for maybe 30 in-game minutes, then slows down to a limp. It keeps slowing down for a long time until it barely walks, then it dies. It looks quite realistic, this part is well done IMO. In a few cases I finished it off with another shot. If that shot wasn't lethal (again), the wolf again started to sprint.

On the few occasions I used the rifle, it was always an instant kill.

I've never had this "blank shot" experience, but again, it's probably because I mainly use the bow... Quite often it happens that the arrow produces a blood splash on impact (vs deer) but does not stick (bounces off). The deer runs away without any blood trail but slows down to walking pace after a short time and goes on with its business. I usually kill it afterwards with another shot so I don't know if it would eventually die after a "bounce".

[cekivi]

7 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

I have only killed 30-40 wolves so far, mostly with the bow. When injured by an arrow, but not instantly killed, the wolf runs for maybe 30 in-game minutes, then slows down to a limp. It keeps slowing down for a long time until it barely walks, then it dies. It looks quite realistic, this part is well done IMO. In a few cases I finished it off with another shot. If that shot wasn't lethal (again), the wolf again started to sprint.

 

The wounded wolf animations do look really cool and work well in the game... when they work. If the wolf I hit gets beyond line of sight (super easy since they run faster than you) half the time the blood trail disappears and I can never find them again. However, I'm almost always hunting with the gun so maybe these errors are more likely to occur with the gun?

[Raphael van Lierop]

We have various plans around these features, but just to address a few specific points:

* The bleedout timer does not reset when you hit an animal a second time.

* Bleedout rates depend on what weapon you are using, and where you hit your target. 

* Blood drops spawn as long as the animal is bleeding, but you may not be able to see them if you lose track of the animal, as they are not visible from very far away. In general, currently, any animal you hit will eventually bleed out, though the bleed out may be *very* long (if you hit an animal in the leg, for example), so it may seem like the timers "reset", or you may think you are hunting the same animal but you are likely not.

In any case, I agree these mechanics can be improved. I'm sure we'll eventually get to this. It's just a question of priorities. You guys want us to launch Story Mode, right?

[cekivi]

36 minutes ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

In any case, I agree these mechanics can be improved. I'm sure we'll eventually get to this. It's just a question of priorities. You guys want us to launch Story Mode, right?

We're a fairly patient community

As for bleeding, I have several let's play videos where the blood trail just ends. If the animal is close to death than I can usually do a grid search to find the carcass but sometimes it just disappears completely or goes over terrain I can't follow. Blood also (on my PC) sometimes doesn't show up at all on ice. So, if blood is already programmed to be persistent than perhaps what I and a few other posters have experienced is more of a bug or hardware related...? 

[Wasteland Watcher]

Raphael,

Story Mode: yes please!  Anxiously waiting: it's the first thing I check when I log onto Steam.

Thank you very much for the (very helpful!) clarification on hunting.

[Raphael van Lierop]

4 hours ago, cekivi said:

We're a fairly patient community

As for bleeding, I have several let's play videos where the blood trail just ends. If the animal is close to death than I can usually do a grid search to find the carcass but sometimes it just disappears completely or goes over terrain I can't follow. Blood also (on my PC) sometimes doesn't show up at all on ice. So, if blood is already programmed to be persistent than perhaps what I and a few other posters have experienced is more of a bug or hardware related...? 

Yes, we'll have a closer look at the blood trails. We also have a couple of other things in the works that might help with this.

[selfless]

6 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

* Blood drops spawn as long as the animal is bleeding, ...

Glad to see leadership so engaged in the forums.  Seems the new format is working for everyone.

But I must correct this, blood drops do not currently always spawn. Specifically, walking animals and charging animals do not drop blood.  At least in the game that has been released so far...

Test case: Shoot a bear with a rifle.  It will charge at you, never dropping a single spot of blood.  After it finishes tossing you around, it will walk away, still not dropping blood.  Light a flare and throw it at the bear, now its running away and spilling blood everywhere.

Other situations show the discrepancy, too.  More serious are the cases where animals get separated from the player far enough that they cease fleeing and resume walking and the blood trail actually stops, as mentioned by Cekivi.  Originally reported as Bug #2840.

[SteveP]

On 2016-02-27 at 9:34 AM, Hatchet said:

Breaking line of sight does not work with a bear, i just tested it, shot a bear in the head, broke line of sight, had bear running around for ~40 hours, then it died.
Bear did not have a single bloodspatter so i thought i didn't hit him because since the last update (real update) i had the feeling my gun was glitched and i was shooting blanks, but no, sometimes animals do not react when shot, do not bleed, but will die after a while (exploit stat screen to see when you killed a certain animal, i only advise this exploit when testing things, it breaks immersion)
After a bit of more testing i found out it's a glitch (i will report this after more testing) when shooting an animal with the rifle on a hit you should see blood spewing out of the wound right after you shot it, 50% of the times this does not occur, if this does not occur animal will not leave any blood splatters on the ground but the animal will die eventually.
Also, when you fire a "blank" and hit the animal with it, the animal will run for about 10-15 sec regardless if you break line or sight or not, the animal will continue to walk again and then suddenly drop dead.

So yeah, you're 100% correct when you say that wildlife needs a lot of tweaking, a whole lot of tweaking!

I've never seen a wolf limp, and i've been playing since october, probably killed a few hundreds of them by now.

It happens when the wolf is shot with an arrow especially if you try to creep up on it. If you block a wolf charge with a fire or torch, a rifle shot between the eyes at torch range will drop it in it tracks. Wolves will slow down and limp as they get closer to dying from blood loss. I don't have enough testing experience with bears to comment; I always use the fire trap on a bear since every other tactic is risky.

[illanthropist]

Possibly a Bug?

After an appalling bow shot at a wolf outside Trapper's Cabin I ended up in a knife fight and the wolf ran off but the blood trail only lasted a few feet in front of me.  Patched up quickly and tried to follow up the steep bank where it fled and no sign of any blood trail.  Anyway figured I'd break for coffee thinking the game would start again after my first aid.

The game restarted at the moment the wolf fled, this time it did a 180° so at my 12 rather than 9/10 oclock as previous and left a clearly visible trail which after patching up led to it's quick despatch, this time with a trusty 303 shot.

[cekivi]

8 hours ago, illanthropist said:

Possibly a Bug?

After an appalling bow shot at a wolf outside Trapper's Cabin I ended up in a knife fight and the wolf ran off but the blood trail only lasted a few feet in front of me.  Patched up quickly and tried to follow up the steep bank where it fled and no sign of any blood trail.  Anyway figured I'd break for coffee thinking the game would start again after my first aid.

The game restarted at the moment the wolf fled, this time it did a 180° so at my 12 rather than 9/10 oclock as previous and left a clearly visible trail which after patching up led to it's quick despatch, this time with a trusty 303 shot.

Huh. That definitely sounds like a bug. And also helps explain the really inconsistent blood drops seen so far.

[illanthropist]

2 hours ago, cekivi said:

Huh. That definitely sounds like a bug. And also helps explain the really inconsistent blood drops seen so far.

Not even sure what blood was dropped was from the wolf, think it may have been mine in hindsight as in the chaos I lunged forward and tried to launch off a round before getting the sprain error message.

The only other explanation I can think of is the wolf was a fan of Mors Kochanski and was practising a leave no trace policy