Living, Challenging, destructable Environment & Building!

[Ms Nutcracker]

How about built up of snow and making things so you can get stuck with alot of rain? Have anyone played Spin tires? Good example of the physics of mud in a game! Perhaps puddles and areas that rain can collect in? And if the wind is strong that will affect your speed and burn more energy? Trees falling down and closing off areas so you need to find new ways to that area?

If they are plants and it grows and dies perhaps they could be over crowded vegetation and that could cover up things, close up areas, create opportunity for players to discover new areas and use their brains like solving puzzles! Could infect players if got stung or cut by the wrong plant!

And if in winter snow could cover things and they still could be vegetation under neath the snow the player just have to keep digging up snow to check!

Have the developer thought of create air pockets underneath the ice?

Its exist in real life where there those living on the ice near mountains can sometime find tunnels where for a period of time is drain of water. So they can go in and I think collect some muscles for their food source and quickly escape the flow of water. I think if you can draw on what things can take place in the real world that would help with creating more realistic challenging opportunities that the environment can bring. Teach players also some survival techniques if they so happen to be caught out in the snow!

Players could block off an area perhaps set traps and roll down a bolder or perhaps do some chipping in rocks to craft things? Its very exciting to consider these things!

AI & Living Ecosystem for Immersion question?

Like to ask about this as they have only been a few threads on it? It be so nice if they can be a living ecosystem in the game consisting of animals and plants for that realistic immersion. Then they could have sophisticated AI to control these things so when you interact with the animals there is some intelligence and challenge to it.

A user suggested this for the Long dark: the things you find outdoors could also be done this way so players will always be interested in the map!

More environment interaction - the character should be able to use every scrap of the evironment to enhance survival: take posters/papers off walls for fuel, break down crates/stools/chairs for wood (bed frames even?), beds have blankets/sheets that can be used in many ways, anything that can be done to allow the player to alter their environment

Adds alot of challenges to getting the tools, food, clothing, shelter because it has all got to be made from scratch!

Just think that if you enjoy Life is feudal of cutting down trees and gathering food well that type of feature can be part of surviving in the Long Dark. The system would need to be a little more complex but if you can manipulate the environment it would be fun and challenging!

If you want to get bark you need to find the proper plant for it! Not pick up sticks along the way! Life is feudal has this feature where you find a tree and it show you how much bark you can get from it.

Here is a video on building a house in Life is feudal - its in Early access so things can change!

So why do we need to go to Life is feudal to do these things when the Long Dark is just perfect for this? There is also no going around picking up things and items have a realistic relation to the environment so the Long Dark should have it too!

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[lolmuffin]

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9430

I also came up with similar. But overall all conversation and seeing other's thread, people want things other ideas like given in linked topic. You said one thing about air pocket level but TLD seems not for extreme and luck. One thing I have same doubt is I cannot cut trees but cutting small branches. I want to know the reason and it's weird. Or because we don't have lumber mill with electricity?

[Hatchet]

We must not forget this is an indie game and some thing just won't be done, not with the engine the game is running on, it would simply be impossible.

I would like to see more plants though, especially poisonous ones, the "bearclaw weed" or giant hogweed as people across the Atlantic may call them would fit perfectly in this scenario, they are very tough weeds that grow in the spring but can last for years, even through winters, some websites might state they get 'this big' and last 'this long' but all the info i come across seems rather incorrect, Bearclaws can grow up to 4 meters and those big ones can last up to 5 (and i believe even longer) years, they however need to be grown under perfect conditions in the wild to get to this state, no nurtering from humans is ever required to get a kingside bearclaw. I have seen a bearclaw with a stem of 14 cm round.

The plant it's toxin can be used for our advantages though it's pretty difficult to siphon it from the plant safely, it's a light to very heavy tissue corroding toxin, depending on who you are, one drup might do your basically no harm, while for a lot of other people it causes instant third degree burn wounds.

Poison ivy would also make a great addition, more variaty, less of the same.

I won't bash on it since it's Alpha state but a lot of games have been following that trend for years now.

Add much of the same mob to increase difficulty.

When instead the professional way of dealing with an issue like that would be to add less but more varied to increase difficulty.

So we wouldn't just have to keep our eyes and ears open for wolves and bears but also for the silent silent poison ivy.

And blodroot would also fit in nicely as you can use the plant it's toxin to spike food so they no longer serve just as a decoy but as a poison that will kill most starving wildlife rather easely or render them immobile.

Again it would be pretty difficult to siphon it safely from the plant without the proper tools.

Over where i live we have thistles and thorny weeds with nuts inside of them, very tough bastards that won't let go of their nuts, but when you're hungry you'll find a way, even if that means squishing the nuts.

Don't know if there is anything like that over in Canada, my botanical knowledge only goes this far, but i bet they do since they have milkweeds there and humans can practically eat the roots of any milkweed family plant, they don't taste very nice but they're edible, just clean off the dirt first.

But then again, northern Canada isn't a jungle/rainforest and since there's not that much space in the maps they can't add too much since when adding a new plant for instance, it would make sense would they have multiple locations where the new plant could be found, add two or three more plants and they're all out of space, or we'd really end up in a jungle.

Could do with a little more bushes though, not the dried up Sahara bushes we already have, they don't count as bushes, would make good tinder though, shake off the snow and voila, tinder for a whole week! Probably smells great too! No more making tinder from sticks or newsprints.

Edit: not commenting on much else since it would all be impossible, but the rolling down a boulder? Did you also see Chris manhandling that boulder in Resident Evil 5? It should stay in that game! An average boulder not bigger than your head weighs in at ATLEAST 20kg, , you'd be pushing 300-800 kg for a boulder the size of a man and since it's easier to push a boulder on grass than it is on snow you'd be pushing an extra 1000kg for every 2cm of snow the boulder is in. (just to give a rough example, i'm not a boulder expert)

[toebar]

I applaud your interest in plants! But..

Poison Ivy is not common in BC, and is virtually non-existent in northern BC and Vancouver Island.

Besides this, even though you CAN get poison ivy in winter, it has to contact your skin to harm you. You're wearing so many layers of clothes that contact is unlikely. It can be transferred from your clothes to your skin, but that's really stretching for a game. Also, poison ivy causes an allergic reaction in many humans-- but it is not poisonous to all species--- deer actually eat it.

Giant Hogweed is also uncommon, and only found in the south. It's a herbaceous plant that dies back to it's root in the winter, so you would not encounter it in TLD.

Digging any kind of roots in winter is quite problematic-- the ground is frozen and there's a lot of snow. In most cases it would take more energy to get the root then you would get out of the root.

I do agree with you that there should be more undergrowth in the form of bushes. This could be an aesthetic or performance choice by the developers though.

[Ms Nutcracker]

Thanks guys for comment head over in steam and you can also see the amount of ideas people are wanting and its only possible if the game expand and get bigger!

Just forget about that this is an indie game and just think ideas that can grow the game and the company! I have listed some very good example of how they can get the fund neither to expand everything.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10207

They do not need to add everything in one go it can be a slow process but still most things mention can be done in the unity engine. And later on they can change engine if the demand is there.

And what is the issue with the ideas of your plant of why it cannot be possible? Right now perhaps something not possible but the ones that can be done should not be an issue.

Here is the Physics of the unity engine

Physics shading & Grass

Kerbal

And here is water in Cities skyline using the Unity Engine!

The team will know what the engine is capable off so again does not to be full blown like in cryengine but look at the screen shots in unity 5! Its a huge big move from what you see currently in the Long dark it does not need to be cartoon like for the future!

Features of Unity 5.0

https://unity3d.com/unity/whats-new/unity-5.0

And here is game that has switch over to Unity 5 so there is still so much it can do!

Here is water!

Catching Fish!

Here is the Airplane!

So cannot be done and still needs to be cartoon like and detail simple and basic?

But do keep posting your ideas and think big for the game and I also like your ideas on the plants for the Air pockets they could just make open tunnels that water flows in and out. If too difficult perhaps caves or perhaps have it so you need to find places that you can break to get to the flowing water.

With boulder that was a little extreme but if physics is in the game player could use rocks and other ways to perhaps catch their prey in real time. They could be food under the rocks so players will need to lift these things and give it that extra challenge.

If they are seasons then the warmer months could provide more plant growth! And the maps does not need to always need to be on the northern side it could be else where if they building up the landscape of canada like how American truck simulator have done it and the quality is very good! So they are opportunities for everything like having more plants because they will be a realistic ecosystem. And if the engine cannot support software to run these AI which I think it would be able too then they can do thing to make it work.

It could be random for now if an ecosystem is not possible and later if they see that getting fund will help them expand then they can change engines so advance features can finally be possible!

So never say never my friend! With the fundings and expanded team it can be done so don't restrict your ideas because of it. I have made it clear in the funding forum on what they can do to perhaps boost funds so they can include new things later on.

[toebar]

The team will know what the engine is capable off so again does not to be full blown like in cryengine but look at the screen shots in unity 5! Its a huge big move from what you see currently in the Long dark it does not need to be cartoon like for the future!

It looks like you're suggesting that TLD does not "need to be cartoon like" for the future... It doesn't "need" to look the way it is currently, it's clearly a carefully chosen artistic aesthetic.

The current look is part of TLD--and it's both lovely to look at and refreshingly different.

Would you really prefer that it looks more photo-realistic? If so, why? That's what so many other games do---and to what end?

[Ms Nutcracker]

It simulate reality then having it stay cartoon forever but if you like to start a thread on it then why not create a new one for that? I would like it if you can post something on topic on your ideas about the environment? I have not seen you add any ideas on it with all my post.

[Dirmagnos]

I dont think there is need to make "a new one", game looks good as it is - one of the things that make game good is its artistic style. Redrawing and retexturing everything is last thing that game needs, its a boatload of work and i doubt it would be that much of an improvement.

[Hatchet]

Thanks guys for comments

My pleasure,

I have removed the rest of your quote because it was too large and out of experience, people don't like those very much, especially ones with pictures, so don't hate me for that

I do want to make a comment about forgetting that this is an indie game, even if i forget that part, i cannot just put the fact aside that you cannot ask an artist to change his way/style of drawing, but you could ask him to draw something else, or draw some more, you wouldn't want Dalhi do a Picasso, or the other way around.

Lets just say, if it had the same style of grahpics like The Forest (which aren't improved graphics, but a different style), i wouldn't be playing TLD, nor would i be playing The Forest for that matter, i'd be playing Ark Survival.

I appreciate the uniqueness, the style and the atmosphere it creates which would be totally different should it have different graphics, it would also then appeal to a different audience, i guess, not me atleast

[in responce to toebar:]It simulate reality then having it stay cartoon forever but if you like to start a thread on it then why not create a new one for that? I would like it if you can post something on topic on your ideas about the environment? I have not seen you add any ideas on it with all my post.

Friendship is always a sweet responsibility, never an opportunity.

~Khalil Gibran

I applaud your interest in plants! But..

Thank you!

Poison Ivy is not common in BC, and is virtually non-existent in northern BC and Vancouver Island.

Besides this, even though you CAN get poison ivy in winter, it has to contact your skin to harm you. You're wearing so many layers of clothes that contact is unlikely. It can be transferred from your clothes to your skin, but that's really stretching for a game. Also, poison ivy causes an allergic reaction in many humans-- but it is not poisonous to all species--- deer actually eat it.

Giant Hogweed is also uncommon, and only found in the south. It's a herbaceous plant that dies back to it's root in the winter, so you would not encounter it in TLD.

Digging any kind of roots in winter is quite problematic-- the ground is frozen and there's a lot of snow. In most cases it would take more energy to get the root then you would get out of the root.

I do agree with you that there should be more undergrowth in the form of bushes. This could be an aesthetic or performance choice by the developers though.

I cannot disagree with anything you just said, the roots would indeed be impossible, in the first place they'd be impossible to find, those milkweeds usually don't get bigger than 10 cm, unless a dandelion grows out of it (you guys wanna see a mutated dandelion?), they would be covered by the snow, not to mention the frozen ground, and those roots are already a $/@# to get out even in moist soil.

Had to break in a compound to get those pictures

Totally off-topic, and not bashing on you Organism because you said it, i used to say it as well, and so do all my friends.

But if someone sais; ' never say never' should i really listen to the person who says never twice in the same sentence, telling me not to ever say never?

Haha, meant as a joke by the way, but you gotta admit it makes sense! :lol:

Sorry, guilty as charged!

And my apologies that i sometimes go off-topic, drifting away, feeling a bit like baby Moses looking at the stars in his basket... I... i can't help myself :oops:

[lolmuffin]

::One thing that people should know:: They started with indie game kickstarter but they are elite.

https://youtu.be/L45pnNhbG8k