Sharpening/cleaning effeciency

[Hatchet]

Right now if you want to bring a degraded item like an axe or a rifle back to excellent condition you'd have to clean/sharpen it about 20 times depending on your skill.

It would make much more sense if we could choose how much time we want to spend maintaining or tools.

So instead of cleaning that rifle 20 times getting 4% condition restored every time it would be so much better for a number of reasons to be able to clean the rifle for an hour straight, or sharpen the axe for 20 minutes straight.

I have whetted (sharpened) many tools in real life, a blunt skinning knife doesn't takes a fifth of the time it would take to sharpen a blunt axe, and can be sharpened using only one side so that's another issue i have with the mechanics, my sharpening skill gives 4% extra durability on both my knives and my axes while knives are about 5 times quicker to sharpen.

Oh and a whetstone really lasts for decades even if you use it for three hours a week for every week to come, as long as you put some spit onto it or some oil, otherwise yeah, it wouldn't last that long as you'd be making holes in the wetstone the same way someone makes holes into a pack of butter because he/she does not know how to slice.

And most whetstones have two sides, but i don't think it would matter for this game.

Oh and well maintained tools take less time to maintain statistics wise meaning that for example at 20% durability it would take an hour to get 4% durability, yet at 50% durability it would only take 30 minutes.

Oh and... nah i'm just kidding

Well maybe make it so that these hatchets can loose their heads, cause this can happen in real life, make the player say something when using the axe and can feel the head is starting to come loose.

Continue chopping would take extra energy and might even sprain your wrist, or you could go home and fastenly secure it again with nails, a wood whip and/or rope.

Please share your opinions!

[cekivi]

There have been several calls to address whetstones. You're right, they should last for years. Mechanically though, Hinterland is trying to have some method for removing man made tools in the game. In earlier builds it was a shortage of scrap metal so you couldn't repair your knife (don't ask). Now it's wearing down whetstones so you can't sharpen them. I don't know if this will be "fixed" since there has so far been the clear intent to have limitations on man made materials.

[TSmith]

I still have a run in one of my save slots where I have well over 100 pieces of scrap metal, maybe close to 200, just to "sharpen" my cutting tools.

The whetstone is a great addition, so much more realistic, but as the OP stated, a whetstone can last forever. I feel these should be very rare objects in the game, one that does not degrade ( Like the Magnifying glass) and until a player finds one he should be forced to maintain his tools with perhaps some sort of rock the Devs place in the game, but said rock degrades, but also they are more abundant

[Hatchet]

I still have a run in one of my save slots where I have well over 100 pieces of scrap metal, maybe close to 200, just to "sharpen" my cutting tools.

The whetstone is a great addition, so much more realistic, but as the OP stated, a whetstone can last forever. I feel these should be very rare objects in the game, one that does not degrade ( Like the Magnifying glass) and until a player finds one he should be forced to maintain his tools with perhaps some sort of rock the Devs place in the game, but said rock degrades, but also they are more abundant

That's a great idea, make it rare, like a firestriker or magnifying lens (only found 1 striker in 110 total days and 2 lenses) yet not degradable like the magnifying lens.

Awesome, i think we're getting somewhere :lol: .

[Ms Nutcracker]

Why find rare items when you can harvest stone and make your own sharpening tool! Right now you can't do that but if realism is the way you can find flint stones or other sharp objects to make an axe or to sharpen your tools. And if it is from the modern world then it could be lying in houses some where to keep it realistic but for everyday sharpening i don't see why you can't find the right stone for it.

[Dirmagnos]

It would be nice if loot system would receive some rebalance, so that manufactured tools would be far rarer, things like whetstone lasted a lot longer(ideally indefinite), but their efficiency would be dependent greatly on player skill with skill progression becoming a lot slower.

And at the same time player would be able to craft a lot of tools himself, from stuff he can find in loot or wild. Custom-made items would be of lower quality(that would increase as player continues crafting; having either lower overall durability or/and longer usage times), but would be far less dependent of rng of looting.

To compensate for lover drops of manufactures stuff in loot, player could find a lot of junk instead, that could then be used in crafting.

[ANelson]

I have an idea for getting away with the Whetstones dying so fast, that also comes with a use for excess skins.... A strop. Why not make a strop from animal skins and say that it can only be used on sharp tools at 90% or higher. Then you only need to use the whetstone if you let your blade wear to far, and have a self made way to keep it in top shape.

As in my brain, the condition drop has always been because it is starting to get dull. Maybe have the strop only able to add a point or 2 for 10 minutes working with it (skill increase maybe with 100 all the way up to 3).

I haven't properly written anything down to see how much skinning hurts the blade, but lets say the Strop is good for fixing one or two skinnings (however much that is) before it becomes useless, and you have to make another one. I'm pretty sure that way getting it from 90 back to 100 would involve needing more than one strop, and while that is also not terribly realistic, (I know I have had my straight razor strop forever) it would still be useful for balance because it wears out, and can only work with an already good condition blade.

It would also give a use for excess skins, other than covering the floor and bed in your shelter with a fuzzy carpet.

[toebar]

Introducing strops, while somewhat realistic, may be making things a little too complicated.

Though I do agree that whetstones should last longer.

Like Dirmagnos, I think making things rarer is a good idea.

[elloco999]

There is a downside to making things rarer though: it could take you a very long time to find a if there are only a few to be found. Yes it will last much longer once you've found it but you will have to make due until then.

And of course you will get loads off people complaining about the lack of these items. Let's be honest, I would expect to find a lot of knives in such an area as where TLD is taking place. Knives are such important tools when living in a harsh environment that I would expect most people to own multiple knives.

[Dirmagnos]

One may expect to find a lot of knives in area where game takes place, but one also would expect them to last considerably longer, like they are not being made out of plastic. One would expect to find many things in the area, like maps or compass.

[Hatchet]

A strop.

All you needed to say to convince me.

There is a downside to making things rarer though: it could take you a very long time to find a if there are only a few to be found. Yes it will last much longer once you've found it but you will have to make due until then.

And of course you will get loads off people complaining about the lack of these items. Let's be honest, I would expect to find a lot of knives in such an area as where TLD is taking place. Knives are such important tools when living in a harsh environment that I would expect most people to own multiple knives.

No more survivors in sandbox mode everybody left and you're left all alone, all houses and buildings have pretty much been plundered already, *might* actually be a needle in a haystack you're looking for.

Just needs a hardcore mode or custom settings.

I also don't see why you can find rifles still sitting on their shelf, atleast on stalker mode, would make more sense if anyone who had a rifle took it with them, maybe pulled a Jack Nicholson a bit later freezing to death with the rifle in his hands, what it was an axe? I knew that, but just for the sake of it...

And those rifles you find outside should always be cleaned before firing (perhaps also oiled), so even if you did find a rifle, you'd better hang it above the stove until you find a cleaning kit.

One may expect to find a lot of knives in area where game takes place, but one also would expect them to last considerably longer, like they are not being made out of plastic. One would expect to find many things in the area, like maps or compass.

Depends how you look at it, did people have enough time to pack their stuff? Atleast people still had time to loot the abandoned houses, i can't see owners ripping out their closets in the kitchen, but leave everything else pretty much intact, food and weapons are the two most important factors to think about when in a situation the people were in when the protagonist crashed the plane, or a bit before but we'll find that out soon in the story mode.

It would indeed make more sense should knives last longer, depending on what you're doing, cutting tuff frozen carcasses would make a sharpened knife pretty blunt, just after 1 carcass, cutting in fishing holes shouldn't even be possible, fish should be filed before eating, knives could do with a bit more work if you'd ask me.

And compasses wouldn't work, save for a sundial compass, which i suggested in another thread.

A static map would be cool, hanging in a few buildings across the maps (especially the watchtowers...), perhaps found as a very rare item on dead people. The framed ones inside the building the player would be able to cut it out, any map found would degrade, but player should be able to re-frame them making them last for ever, yet those cannot be taken with the player, and it wouldn't show current location, which way is north (you should find that out by yourself) missing key locations of events that happened after the storm (derailment, broken bridges, etc...)

Too much ideas in my head

Hey all of you, thanks for showing this much interest in my topic, it means a lot

[jeremiah johnson]

Maybe just dont make the whetstone degrade 5% per use. make it 1 % or 0.5%. I think the middle ground here is to just get more uses out of them despite the fact that in real life they can last a lifetime. Although there are aspects of the mechanics which drive this feature that i am not familiar with. For example, I would assume that the higher your sharpening skill, the less wear on the stone or a higher percentage of sharpening occurs per use. I have not tested this out. This is a good thread!

[elloco999]

One would also expect the game to be balanced for fun gameplay and a lot of knives that last very long would not be it IMHO.

[Dirmagnos]

It would indeed make more sense should knives last longer, depending on what you're doing, cutting tuff frozen carcasses would make a sharpened knife pretty blunt, just after 1 carcass, cutting in fishing holes shouldn't even be possible, fish should be filed before eating, knives could do with a bit more work if you'd ask me.

And compasses wouldn't work, save for a sundial compass, which i suggested in another thread.

A static map would be cool, hanging in a few buildings across the maps (especially the watchtowers...), perhaps found as a very rare item on dead people. The framed ones inside the building the player would be able to cut it out, any map found would degrade, but player should be able to re-frame them making them last for ever, yet those cannot be taken with the player, and it wouldn't show current location, which way is north (you should find that out by yourself) missing key locations of events that happened after the storm (derailment, broken bridges, etc...)

Too much ideas in my head

Hey all of you, thanks for showing this much interest in my topic, it means a lot

True, cutting frozen corpses would make knife rather dull, but thats what hatchet should be 4(you dont cut, you chop). Current system barely makes a difference between those two when it comes to frozen carcasses. And thats where sharpener should come to play. Knife can be sharpened a lot of times, losing over 60% of blade volume and be still usable.

And only way compass wouldnt work is if Earth poles would shift. Ive seen plenty of posts regarding that topic, except no1 seem to be able to give any actual reason why it wouldnt work. Ppl who present it as a fact somehow present it without any arguments and presume that it would be taken "as is".

And those map ideas are rather overcomplicated. Certain buildings should have area map in them, preferably topographic, that can be taken with player. Rest is just pointless. Why map would degrade ? If its properly stored. Why need to reframe or cutting it out ? Were not talking about a painting, or cheap 2-buck piece of thin paper for tourists, but proper detailed map in waterproofed ziplock bag.

[Scyzara]

And only way compass wouldnt work is if Earth poles would shift. Ive seen plenty of posts regarding that topic, except no1 seem to be able to give any actual reason why it wouldnt work. Ppl who present it as a fact somehow present it without any arguments and presume that it would be taken "as is".

The game is based on a real geomagnetic storm that really happened in Canada in 1989 and it simply IS a matter of fact that compasses didn't work correct during the event (or during similar events that happened anywhen between the 18th century and today). If you're interested in a scientific explanation, why exactly solar storms are able to disturb Earth's geomagnetic field (and thus cause compasses to malfunction), I recommend reading some specialized literature about it.

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/ilonidis1/

http://www.viviss.si/download/viviss/ZB ... _11_20.pdf

I bet there are way more papers (and easier to understand texts for laymen) about this topic to be found if one searches for them. It's a pretty relevant topic for all countries that depend on higher technology.

@topic:

I'm fine with the current sharpening efficiency. The higher your sharpening skill, the more durability you restore to your weapon per use. And there's plenty of knives, hatchets and whetstones around anyway.

It's not like it's possible to truely run out of means to chop wood prior to day 1000 or whatever, at least not if you find all tools on all maps and don't mind to pick up some sticks and coal every now and then.

[Dirmagnos]

Good read, wrong argument.

Neither of those articles says anything about compasses being completely unusable or ceasing to work. Even during strongest solar storms in last few decades(and theres been plenty of those) simple magnetic compasses never stopped working completely. Main effect those solar storms have on naval navigation(or any long-ranged travels), as discrepancy even in few degrees may result in veering off course for thousands of miles on long journeys. Which is not the case in LD. Compass WOULD work.

Not to mention that if magnetic field would be completely suppressed, then non-working compass would be the least of our problems, compared to unpleasantness of irradiation and suffocation.

[toebar]

It's not a scientific paper, but:

"The influence of solar magnetic activity on the compass can best be described as a probability. During severe magnetic storms, compass needles at high latitudes have been observed swinging wildly. "

So, it's plausible that an extreme event would render compasses unusable. Besides this, its a fictional event-- Hinterland can make it what they want.... (though I do prefer they keep it plausible )

[cekivi]

Personally I'm fine without a magnetic compass. There are plenty of plausible story reasons for why they may not be present. It would, however, be nice to have a solar compass or an old wind up watch. Both would allow you to determine roughly where N-S is... provided you can see the sun

[Dirmagnos]

True, Hinterland may do whatever they wannt, but it would be nice to keep it within borders of physical reality.

Btw, latest magnetic storm that caused compass to go all bananas was over 150 years ago, Carrington event, so that part about repeated/regular severe magnetic storms that cause compass needle swinging is an exaggeration.

Also aurora intensity is supposed to be an indicator of the strength of the geomagnetic event. And on published screenshots they dont seem to be at all that intense.

Watch would be nice to have. With an actual ability for it to stop if player forget to wind it up, so then hed have to manually adjust it and its readings may be wrong.

[toebar]

So it was 150 years ago.. That simply makes it plausible--it doesn't take it outside the borders of physical reality... besides, borders are only a guideline

If the event is not quite accurate, I'm alright with that. I agree that I'd like most things to be rooted in reality-- but I'm alright with the ravenous wolves and other gameplay decisions as well. Perhaps some of these have yet to be explained in game.

To bring this back to topic, my preference would be for sharpened and sharpening items to have greater longevity and lower drop frequency, to encourage conservation and crafting when necessary.

Certainly item rarity could be tied to the difficulty levels (/play modes) to further separate them.

[starfighter441]

Re. Compasses not working.

Even if compasses are not working due to magnetic interference, the North Star is still there ( if you are brave enough to be out at night), and the Sun wanders from East to West in the Southern part of the sky ( being due South at noon, and travelling 15° west per hour. This should be enough for a dirty fix on direction.

[TSmith]

Got to agree on the whetstone thing. I remember one update, think it was the one when the game was released to X Box 1, where it was made mention that some of the changes made would encourage more outside camping.

The whetstone degrading so fast goes totally against this. Should be some middle ground somewhere

[Dirmagnos]

So it was 150 years ago.. That simply makes it plausible--it doesn't take it outside the borders of physical reality... besides, borders are only a guideline

Wel see once story mode is out. During Carrington Event northern lights were reported to be of such intensity that people actually woke up during night and started to prepare for their daily tasks, presuming that it was morning.

If aurora borealis is no as intense, then il start to complain again, since those things are based on laws of physics. One thing would kinda excludes another. 8)

We will either get auroras that will have brightness comparable to sunlight(with light amplification from snow) or compass WILL work.

[cekivi]

Eh, I'd be fine with something in between

Although if you want to discourage your players from sleeping all night and give the sense of the passage of time an intense aurora that slowly grows dimmer as the days wear on would be a cool way of doing it.

[Dirmagnos]

Actually auroras can be seen during day without much trouble. And those are of far lesser intensity that should be present in LD.