Another bogus death due to poor mechanics...

[Scyzara]

Why does this forum double post me so much? :roll:

This sentence reflects the whole problem here in such an excellent fashion that I'm meanwhile inclined to consider the whole thread some kind of satiric comedy about irresponsibility.

While against an already injured wolf you have a chance after some 80 clicks or so to kill the wolf or should this wolf be coming around for a second attack, it makes no difference if you attack if or if you don't click at all. The wolf is going to do a certain amount of "condition damage" along with the other modifiers and then it is going to move on. So click, don't click, the Devs have abandoned, evidently, improving the combat interaction system and also removed the "gameplay" of actually clicking yourself out of a bad situation. So far as I can tell from my experimentation which has been extensive.

This assumption is only true under certain circumstances - which are fighting while exhausted OR fighting barehanded OR not fighting back at all OR being a very "slow" clicker (slow is a relative word and I'll explain later on what it means in this context).

In the current (and every other post-DP) build, there are two general possibilities how a wolf-handfight can end:

A) The wolf leaves on its own after exactly 8.5 seconds (counting from being jumped until blackout)

or

B) You fend off the wolf faster than after 8.5 seconds (and thus lose less condition than in case A).

In order to achieve result B, one has to click lmb as fast as possible (What a surprise, I bet no-one has expected that!). The wolf will always stop its attack after you've filled up the bar (which might take a fast clicker about 3-6 seconds, depending on the factors named below), but there is also some fair chance that the wolf will even let go of you before the bar is completely filled.

If you fight rested, click reasonably fast and use a knife, wolves often run off after about 2-3 seconds (= before the bar is more than 70% filled).

How fast the bar fills up depends on your personal clicking speed, your weapon, your fatigue level and maybe some rng-factor (not sure about the latter as the rng factor during my tests might simply have been my personal clicking speed). So if I'm talking about clicking "slowly" it basically means "too slow to fill up the bar in less than 8.5 seconds under good conditions". Under horrible conditions (exhaustion, barehanded) you can probably click as fast as you want and still won't fill up the bar in time.

Just wanted to set right how the current mechanics work (or maybe I should better say how I believe them to work. Only the Devs know for sure and they won't tell us).

I won't comment on the original topic of sleep-freezing as I highly doubt that explaining my own (rather complicated) point of view about it would have any meaningful impact on the current discussion. Would be a waste of time and energy that leads nowhere, much like an attempt to argue with a creationist about phylogenetics.

[selfless]

I was wrong claiming voyageur had a wake when freezing function. It does not.

I hadn't had much experience with voyageur and made an incorrect inference.

Voyageur has a safeguard wherein the player cannot freeze when he/she is in influence range of a burning fire.

It also had a function wherein the character could wake in certain rather unlikely instances. Being approached by an animal. Wind blowing out a fire. But I have not been able to produce these situations yet to confirm or deny. I can report that the character does not wake if he/she achieves freezing while sleeping, regardless of how warm he/she was when starting and regardless of how the ambient temperature shifts.

Sorry.

P.S: I watched the video. The character was clearly freezing before going to sleep and the temperatures displayed at the time (ambient plus bedroll) were not sufficient to ever warm him. Suggestion: Perhaps try metric units if recognizing the difference between 31 degrees and 33 degrees gets to be too much. Zero Celsius is an easier baseline, IMO. No calculation required.

[TWM]

I watched the video. The character was clearly freezing before going to sleep and the temperatures displayed at the time (ambient plus bedroll) were not sufficient to ever warm him.

So why isn't there a shivering mechanic in place that prevents the player from falling to sleep in the first place, let alone sleep for seven hours straight?!!

This isn't realism! This isn't good gameplay! This is cheap, bogus death!

Don't you see how this constant lack of handholding is a huge turn-off for new players?!!

Here, let me copy-paste 6 pages of user reviews to bolster my point...

[KD7BCH]

Why does this forum double post me so much? :roll:

This sentence reflects the whole problem here in such an excellent fashion that I'm meanwhile inclined to consider the whole thread some kind of satiric comedy about irresponsibility.

While against an already injured wolf you have a chance after some 80 clicks or so to kill the wolf or should this wolf be coming around for a second attack, it makes no difference if you attack if or if you don't click at all. The wolf is going to do a certain amount of "condition damage" along with the other modifiers and then it is going to move on. So click, don't click, the Devs have abandoned, evidently, improving the combat interaction system and also removed the "gameplay" of actually clicking yourself out of a bad situation. So far as I can tell from my experimentation which has been extensive.

This assumption is only true under certain circumstances - which are fighting while exhausted OR fighting barehanded OR not fighting back at all OR being a very "slow" clicker (slow is a relative word and I'll explain later on what it means in this context).

In the current (and every other post-DP) build, there are two general possibilities how a wolf-handfight can end:

A) The wolf leaves on its own after exactly 8.5 seconds (counting from being jumped until blackout)

or

B) You fend off the wolf faster than after 8.5 seconds (and thus lose less condition than in case A).

In order to achieve result B, one has to click lmb as fast as possible (What a surprise, I bet no-one has expected that!). The wolf will always stop its attack after you've filled up the bar (which might take a fast clicker about 3-6 seconds, depending on the factors named below), but there is also some fair chance that the wolf will even let go of you before the bar is completely filled.

If you fight rested, click reasonably fast and use a knife, wolves often run off after about 2-3 seconds (= before the bar is more than 70% filled).

How fast the bar fills up depends on your personal clicking speed, your weapon, your fatigue level and maybe some rng-factor (not sure about the latter as the rng factor during my tests might simply have been my personal clicking speed). So if I'm talking about clicking "slowly" it basically means "too slow to fill up the bar in less than 8.5 seconds under good conditions". Under horrible conditions (exhaustion, barehanded) you can probably click as fast as you want and still won't fill up the bar in time.

Just wanted to set right how the current mechanics work (or maybe I should better say how I believe them to work. Only the Devs know for sure and they won't tell us).

I won't comment on the original topic of sleep-freezing as I highly doubt that explaining my own (rather complicated) point of view about it would have any meaningful impact on the current discussion. Would be a waste of time and energy that leads nowhere, much like an attempt to argue with a creationist about phylogenetics.

Except it does not always run off at 70% full, and it does not matter if you click in many ( not all ) circumstances because you can click as fast as your CPU will register inputs and 8.5 seconds is up way before your bar would be close to 70% much less full, and the wolf moves on regardless.

What difference does it make? The feedback is that they are too numerous. The feedback is players are poorly equipped to deal with them. The feedback is they detract from the game. The feedback is pretty clear on the why you would not recommend the game and the longer you play the game the more and more often it is about the WOLVES.

[KD7BCH]

I was wrong claiming voyageur had a wake when freezing function. It does not.

I hadn't had much experience with voyageur and made an incorrect inference.

Voyageur has a safeguard wherein the player cannot freeze when he/she is in influence range of a burning fire.

It also had a function wherein the character could wake in certain rather unlikely instances. Being approached by an animal. Wind blowing out a fire. But I have not been able to produce these situations yet to confirm or deny. I can report that the character does not wake if he/she achieves freezing while sleeping, regardless of how warm he/she was when starting and regardless of how the ambient temperature shifts.

Sorry.

P.S: I watched the video. The character was clearly freezing before going to sleep and the temperatures displayed at the time (ambient plus bedroll) were not sufficient to ever warm him. Suggestion: Perhaps try metric units if recognizing the difference between 31 degrees and 33 degrees gets to be too much. Zero Celsius is an easier baseline, IMO. No calculation required.

Well if this is so I stand corrected on Voyageur having a "freezing mechanic". Changes nothing. Perhaps it should be modeled. Certainly if devs are going to model hypothermia as a sub condition they could model this as well.

Watch the video again. 32 F is cutoff right. More than 32 and you are ok less than 33 and you are not.

At 43:02 I was 28F and freezing this was before sleeping.

At 43:31 with the lantern in hand it was 34F so this was up by a difference of 6 degrees.

At 43:36 you can see the bedroll offers +7F in the condition it was in so by my math without the lantern and if the weather is 28 I should be a toasty 35F.

At 43:52 I see now that it was 26F instead of 28F. However I was looking at my cold meter which had increased, however sleeping with only +7F would only have kept me at 33F which by my calculation would still have been warm enough.

I acknowledge the conditions of the environment which were not in my control were should have caused my death sleeping and excess amount of time. I'll asked two questions before I'll ask again.

Is it realistic?

Is this good Gameplay?

In my opinion is it neither.

[KD7BCH]

I watched the video. The character was clearly freezing before going to sleep and the temperatures displayed at the time (ambient plus bedroll) were not sufficient to ever warm him.

So why isn't there a shivering mechanic in place that prevents the player from falling to sleep in the first place, let alone sleep for seven hours straight?!!

This isn't realism! This isn't good gameplay! This is cheap, bogus death!

Don't you see how this constant lack of handholding is a huge turn-off for new players?!!

Here, let me copy-paste 6 pages of user reviews to bolster my point...

Actually I don't see that at all as hand holding. I don't see in the reviews where explained reasoning for why you die is bad. I did cite exactly where I saw a review showing my exact experience led to a negative recommendation of the game. Look we can disagree on this point without continuing to argue. I understand your point and I respect it as well. You don't want hand holding and I don't want a warning message coming up flashing either saying danger don't sleep.

I would like it just be reviewed.

Possible change to include an incidence where you wake up around 20-25% of condition shivering with freezing and with hypothermia and the ability to fucking do something about it.

Just like when you fall though ice and you don't die instantly now, but you get stuck with soaked clothes that offer no freezing protection until they are thoroughly dried out, and you instantly receive hypothermia and freezing. I think that is not hand holding either. Do you think this particular mechanic is hand holding?

[KD7BCH]

Scyzara when you write...

I'd rather like the Devs to spend some time improving the current "smash one button and pray to the gods of rng" wolf handfighting system. Possibly even a complete overhaul of the mechanics to make it e.g. possible to throw your knife or hatchet at an approaching wolf. Could chase away the wolf and save you a handstruggle if you hit, but missing would force you to fight the beast barehanded afterwards. Might add some nice risk vs. reward trade-offs imho.

In another thread it seems to me you agree with the long term players regarding the way we interact with wolves myself included. If so isn't it a matter of degree as to how it gets fixed and in what way it gets fixed?

[ThresholdSeven]

P.S: I watched the video. The character was clearly freezing before going to sleep and the temperatures displayed at the time (ambient plus bedroll) were not sufficient to ever warm him. Suggestion: Perhaps try metric units if recognizing the difference between 31 degrees and 33 degrees gets to be too much. Zero Celsius is an easier baseline, IMO. No calculation required.

If you are talking about the OP video, he was warm enough when he went to sleep. 33 degrees. But while sleeping, either his clothing or sleeping bag deteriorated causing 1 degree loss and thus he froze. Forgetting that clothing and sleeping bags deteriorate and lose warmth bonus actively during sleep is something that goes missed to the detriment of many,

[McGuffin]

Watch the video again. 32 F is cutoff right. More than 32 and you are ok less than 33 and you are not.

At 43:02 I was 28F and freezing this was before sleeping.

At 43:31 with the lantern in hand it was 34F so this was up by a difference of 6 degrees.

At 43:36 you can see the bedroll offers +7F in the condition it was in so by my math without the lantern and if the weather is 28 I should be a toasty 35F.

At 43:52 I see now that it was 26F instead of 28F. However I was looking at my cold meter which had increased, however sleeping with only +7F would only have kept me at 33F which by my calculation would still have been warm enough.

I acknowledge the conditions of the environment which were not in my control were should have caused my death sleeping and excess amount of time. I'll asked two questions before I'll ask again.

Is it realistic?

Is this good Gameplay?

In my opinion is it neither.

The t° probably dropped during your sleep. This happens all the time. Choosing to sleep 6 hours in such condition *is* a mistake. I know, it's harsh, but you need to face this^^

If you really have 300+ hours of gameplay you should know that.

I dont see any realism or gameplay issue.

You are just, as usual since a long time, pissed off because you made (again) basic mistake.

Beside, it's not even a matter of realism.

The game works like this since a very long time, and most people have understood how to deal with this.

At some point you can choose to deal with the given rules or whine, or leave the game if it's too hard for you.

[Doc Gonzo]

If it’s any consolation I'm sure many, if not all, of us have died in similar ways while playing. Lord knows I have.

The only reason I called this bogus was because it was a puzzle as to what happened. All indicators were pointing to a safe, sufficiently warm sleep. Of course you can't receive indicators in your sleep which is why your body involuntary shivers your timbers and wakes you the hell up IRL. Should it be modeled in Stalker like in Voyageur? Maybe, maybe not. Consensus of the thread seems to be lets just leave it be and learn to play the game as it is rather than try to make it better since it is still in Alpha.

It was an expected result actually but not from the indicators which will frustrate the hell out of new players.

"It was the expected result..." Well then I look forward to your report on whether or not water is still wet.

Joking aside, I think, as has been spelled out in this thread, that a shiver mechanic would just equate to hand holding. You want the mechanics of the game to warn you about the consequences of your own actions? No thank you, I’d rather learn those consequences.

In your scenario the player chose to sleep for six hours, while outside, without a fire and while playing on the hardest difficulty. I say that the player, new or otherwise, made some very poor decisions in that scenario and any mechanism employed by the game to remedy that simply makes the game easier and less of a challenge. I’ve died in a similar manner and I now take steps to mitigate the risk while sleeping outside at night.

Simply learn from your mistakes and start a new game.

The weather is harsh in TLD, more so on Stalker obviously. If you roll the dice with those conditions and the weather takes a, not unexpected, turn for the worse you should suffer the consequences. A shiver mechanic just makes the game easier.

As was already pointed out there isn’t a shiver mechanic on any of the difficulty levels and I think adding one would be a mistake.

Finally, there is no "puzzle as to what happened..." You made the choice not to light a fire and the choice to sleep for six straight hours. The weather changed while you slept (or there is the possiblity that your gear decayed just enough to cause heat loss) and you died. There's no shockers here, no mystery and there certinaly were things you could have done to avoid the death.

[Scyzara]

What difference does it make? The feedback is that they are too numerous. The feedback is players are poorly equipped to deal with them. The feedback is they detract from the game. The feedback is pretty clear on the why you would not recommend the game and the longer you play the game the more and more often it is about the WOLVES.

Your ability to mix up everything is really astonishing.

What difference my clarification makes? Well, for starters it might possibly prevent some players from simply doing nothing during a wolf attack (and thus take way more damage than necessary) because they've read your false claims and thus believe that they will take the same amount of damage no matter what they do. At least I hope they won't stop fighting back, no-one can tell whether you've already spilled that milk for some readers or not.

Not that I expect you to understand let alone accept your responsibility for influencing others with your rumors when you're even reluctant to take responsibility for your own doings.

Scyzara when you write...

I'd rather like the Devs to spend some time improving the current "smash one button and pray to the gods of rng" wolf handfighting system. Possibly even a complete overhaul of the mechanics to make it e.g. possible to throw your knife or hatchet at an approaching wolf. Could chase away the wolf and save you a handstruggle if you hit, but missing would force you to fight the beast barehanded afterwards. Might add some nice risk vs. reward trade-offs imho.

In another thread it seems to me you agree with the long term players regarding the way we interact with wolves myself included. If so isn't it a matter of degree as to how it gets fixed and in what way it gets fixed?

Stop mixing up everything. My description of the current handfighting mechanics was neither a praise of them nor a vindication for them, it was merely an attempt to prevent people from acting wrong (=not fight back) based on false rumors.

If I write an essay about the political system in North Korea it doesn't automatically mean that I favor said system, does it? You honestly need to learn to differentiate what people say and why they say it. And please stop to devide the world in friends and foes. The world is not as simple as toddlers (and a certain American politician) believe it to be.

Let me tell you a secret:

People aren't either 100% for or 100% against all of your various opinions. The only thing that successively causes them to be more and more against everything you write is your immature and irresponsible behavior and your refusal to stop writing the same pointless walls of text about your complaints over and over again.

This is my personal assessment of what is currently happening in this very thread and I strongly suggest you to read these bold sentences at least five times in order to realize their meaning and importance. Please act accordingly.

@others: Yeah.. I know I'm too kind occasionally. But this topic is really getting hard to look on.

[TWM]

Possible change to include an incidence where you wake up around 20-25% of condition shivering with freezing and with hypothermia and the ability to fucking do something about it.

And what "problem" would that solve exactly?

A player who likes this game and finds out (s)he's died during the night will try to figure out what happened and adapt his playstyle accordingly. That's how (s)he learns.

I'd be much more in favor of a complete overhaul of the sleeping mechanic, to the effect of the time the player sleeps not being under the direct control of the player. Dialing in digits to determine in advance how many hours you will sleep breaks immersion, it feels clunky. Now that, in my estimation, is an actual issue.

The amount of time you sleep once you decide to lay your head down should be determined by stats (how tired are you, how well are you) and by external factors (like temperature, comfort, etc. - more comfort, longer rest, more benefits too).

As I said before: in the context of such an overhaul, I could see a genuine need for an emergency wake up in case temperatures start dropping drastically and the player starts getting into serious trouble.

But as the mechanic works now, the player has every control of whether he wants to sleep for 1 hour or 12. If you choose 12, well, you find out pretty quickly the world moves on... with you unconscious in it.

What's next? Automatic rehydration pauses for people who can't figure out that if you dial in 25 hours straight at the crafting table, you're going to run into a serious problem? Another bogus death waiting to happen...

A couple of weeks ago, I had my character jump out of bed in the middle of the night, I forgot to put his clothes back on, demolished some chairs and repaired his wolfskin coat. When I was done with the coat, the character had contracted hypothermia.

Now that's somewhat frustrating, since it's easy to overlook the nakedness of the character, especially when you're starting up from an earlier save. It also breaks immersion, since in real life, you'd feel the cold immediately coming out of bed. So you're reminded you're playing a computer game, where you can walk around the house naked and freezing for hours without noticing anything at all.

But ah well, one cannot expect the devs to make a game perfect in all respects.

[TWM]

Well, for starters it might possibly prevent some players from simply doing nothing during a wolf attack (and thus take way more damage than necessary) because they've read your false claims and thus believe that they will take the same amount of damage no matter what they do.

Interestingly enough, something similar has been my experience since a couple of patches after the Deep Forest update.

Ever since, I can mash all I want during a wolf fight, but the bar stays all the way down, and I end up with my clothes ripped up severely and a huge chunk out of my health (we're talking 50% or more). And it happens every single goddamned time, regardless of fatigue, stamina, or weapon. (Stalker merely exacerbates this issue, which is probably the main reason why it's no fun for me to play in that mode at all.)

I've reported this as a bug late September, but I didn't get the feeling it was taken too seriously. In any case, I'm still experiencing the same issue, whereas before, even after a mano-a-mano with a wolf, I'd still be in pretty good shape.

Just saying: different players may have very different experiences in this regard.

[ChillPlayer]

I can only confirm what Scy has written, I see a huge difference between clicking or not clicking and also what cloths I wear or in which condition I am and the bar always fills when I click. Maybe you have an issue with your mouse or just click too slow? Not saying that it couldn't be a bug, just that I never experienced what you said.

[Scyzara]

Ever since, I can mash all I want during a wolf fight, but the bar stays all the way down, and I end up with my clothes ripped up severely and a huge chunk out of my health (we're talking 50% or more). And it happens every single goddamned time, regardless of fatigue, stamina, or weapon. (Stalker merely exacerbates this issue, which is probably the main reason why it's no fun for me to play in that mode at all.)

I've reported this as a bug late September, but I didn't get the feeling it was taken too seriously. In any case, I'm still experiencing the same issue, whereas before, even after a mano-a-mano with a wolf, I'd still be in pretty good shape.

Just saying: different players may have very different experiences in this regard.

Hm, does the bar not even start to fill up (= doesn't rise on clicking at all) or do you just not get it full? In the first case, it's definitely a bug. In the second case... well, I have to agree to Chillplayer that its either a bug or "slow" clicking. Hard to say as the bar does rise with every click (+ X), but also decreases over time (-X/t). In other words, you can only fill it up if the intervalls between your clicks are short enough (shorter than t), otherwise the bar will always remain below 20% or so. My personal guess is that t might be somewhere in the range of 200ms, but that's merely a speculation and I might ofc. be wrong.

If you could provide a video (or find one from someone else with the same issue) that might possibly help to determine what's wrong. Definitely doesn't sound as if it was intended to work that way.

Alternatively.. well, you could also do one of those "how fast can you click" minigames (just google it^^) and tell us the results. If you're clicking about 7-8 times per second or faster, your bar problem is definitely some kind of bug. For that's my clicking speed and my bar fills up pretty fast under perfect conditions (knife + rested).^^

[TWM]

Hm, does the bar not even start to fill up (= doesn't rise on clicking at all)

It doesn't rise at all. I can see it flickering (so my input is registering), but it doesn't fill at all.

According to this site, I'm at about 4,5 to 5 clicks per second.

But even then, I should see some progress (I used to, there was a time when it worked fine, same mouse, same clickrate).

Anyway, I've de-installed the game, and I'll wait till story mode to re-install it. Hopefully that will take care of the problem.

[ChillPlayer]

I measured my click rate and got 320 clicks per minute, so we are clicking approx. with the same speed, strange.

What's missing in this particular discussion is the point that you shouldn't fight wolves by hand in the first place. This was always a good advise but especially since sprinting was introduced, I had a stream lastly where I outran 3 wolves that were after me. The only reason nowadays to get into a wolf fight is when you miss a shot, but you should've wounded him and most likely kill him in the fight before he gets you.

To circle this back to the topic, I regard handfighting wolves kind of like the OP wishes a shivering mechanic to prevent him from freezing to death while sleeping. In RL I would most likely die when fighting a wolf, especially a crazy one that attacks every moving thing on sight. Hence the fight - or shivering in the OPs case - is the second chance after you made either a small blunder by not hitting the kill spot or a huge mistake because you let the wolf get to you (or sleeping outside for 6 hours without a fire going ).

Torches, flares, fire, decoys, sprinting, evading or even firing a shot into the air are 7 different means to avoid going into a handfight, so one should be lucky to have a second chance at all and it should be based on chance to a part if you survive it. I guess that's why the devs opted for the simplest method possible besides just playing a cutscene as with bears, and have us click with 320cpm like the crazy wolves we try to kill

[TWM]

What's missing in this particular discussion is the point that you shouldn't fight wolves by hand in the first place.

Oh, but we're in agreement there. I remember seeing clips from players even nine months back or so, where they teach other players how to go wolfslaying on the lake at CH. Shoot a wolf here, fight a wolf there, and even provoke it again, to finish him off.

To me, that's just exploitation. The game is then turned from a survival game into one of those mindless fight-off-hordes-of-zombies games.

A tossle with a wolf ought to be punishing, in order to teach players not to pick fights with them.

But in the odd occasion I do get into a fight, I do like to know on how I'm doing and if my actions (hitting LMB like crazy) are actually doing anything. That's motivational feedback which, in my experience (and I'm still ascribing that to a bug) the mechanic isn't giving me.

[ChillPlayer]

Yes I'd be frustrated too if my clicking would't do anything, may try to record it and post in the bug section.

[sarudak]

I actually agree with the waking up when you're cold. If you go to sleep when you're already cold it's reasonable to die from hypothermia but you should never be able to go to sleep warm and then die from hypothermia you would definitely wake up shivering. This is realism. Although to be honest realism doesn't mean much for me it would also be better gameplay, there's nothing fun about dying in your sleep because the weather suddenly got colder. I think it's something worth changing.

[McGuffin]

In the reality, hypothermia doesnt wake you up, in fact it even push you to sleep.

But well, I think the game should have a level 0 difficulty, where you can't die at all.

You start with gun +100 bullets because of, you know, wolves, a +20° bonus with sleeping bag and the weather can't be bad when you sleep

[MAGI]

In the reality, hypothermia doesnt wake you up, in fact it even push you to sleep.

But well, I think the game should have a level 0 difficulty, where you can't die at all.

You start with gun +100 bullets because of, you know, wolves, a +20° bonus with sleeping bag and the weather can't be bad when you sleep

If u go to sleep and already feel cold - yes. But when u're going to sleep and u're in warm - u'll definitely wake up from cold.

[McGuffin]

If u go to sleep and already feel cold - yes. But when u're going to sleep and u're in warm - u'll definitely wake up from cold.

define "warm". If you are saying: dropping from a cosi 25°c to -5° i agree, this should wake you up.

but that's is not the case here.

The op started to sleep at around 5°c and conditions close to hypothermia.

[ChillPlayer]

Don't forget that for hypothermia to kick in the outside temperature or how cold you "feel" does not play a role, only how cold your body temperature is. Hypothermia begins to kick in when you body temp drops to 35°C or less and in theory you will get hypo when you are exposed to any temperatures below your healthy body temp (36.5-37°C) long enough. Spend a day in cozy 20°C warm water and you will get hypothermic.

And that's why "how warm" it was when the OP went to sleep is irrelevant to the question if he should've woken up shivering. The only relevant fact is, if he already lost body temperature.

Now we know that when our temperature bar is at 0 (e.g. we are freezing) for 2 hours we will get hypothermic, that's how it is implemented in the TLD. So in my mind, a full bar means we are at optimal body temperature of 36.5°C. The bar dropping means we loose body temperature until 35°C or less and when it's down we get hypo two hours later. That's actually more forgiving than in RL, in RL you will get hypothermic pretty soon when your body temperature drops to 35C.

So why again should we wake shivering when we go to sleep with an already too cold body?

[sarudak]

I mean we should wake shivering if we went to sleep with at least a half full warmth bar (or the bar got to at least half full anytime during the sleep. If you try and sleep when you are already freezing then yes. I just think situations where you go to bed in the mountaneers cabin warm and the weather changes and you freeze half to death in the middle of the night are totally wrong and not a fun game mechanic.