End Game Suggestion

[Giga]

Okay, so I got The Long Dark last week and have been playing it like crazy for days now. Loving it. Went from freezing to death in under 10 minutes, to my current game where I'm at like day 40 or so, hanging out in Pleasant Valley big house with so full custom clothing, rifle, bow, and such a massive food stockpile, I fear a lot of my meat is going to spoil before I get a chance to eat it.

And here lies what I feel is the one big problem of TLD sandbox mode. Once a player figures out that:

#1 they'll can be Starving all day and just eat well before you sleep, with no real penalty

#2 they can easily harvest tons of meat by scaring Deer into Wolf and then scaring Wolf away with Flare/Torch

There's no struggle after this. The gameplay goes into hibernation mode. The only resource you could possibly run out of at this point is wood for fires. You can't really die unless you make a catastrophic mistake. The only reason to keep exploring (and risking death) is because it's boring to sit at the same house day in and day out. That makes for some pretty dull End Game.

My suggestion to fix this is simple - add powerful extra-aggressive enemies into the sandbox after a certain number of game days has passed. For example:

#1 Polar bears appear, not only massacring other animals in the area (thus depriving the player of easy sources of food), but also persistently tracking the player character, taking over any area where the player character is a day or two after s/he arrives there, thus making staying at any one place for long super-risky.

#2 Evil Survivors - small groups of armed and desperate men and women, who have the ability to enter houses, arriving to the area and setting their own camps/taking over buildings. Like the bears, they would slaughter the local wildlife and ultimately lay siege to whatever house the player is using as a base, wanting to kill him and take his loot. As with the bears, the player would have to chose between fight or flight.

#3 Rabid Animals - super-aggressive wolves/bears who spawn randomly and will sniff out and attack the player from great distance + possibly infect him with rabies + spread infection to other wolves/bears.

#4 Wolf Packs - packs of 10+ wolves roaming the countryside, don't let them see you.

This opens up new crafting options too, like various traps/molotov cocktails/medicines designed to fight these improved enemies.

Also, multiplayer - yes, I know the developers aren't interested in multiplayer. Still, what better way to make sandbox mode forever exciting than to includes other players who can rob/kill you at a moment's notice, or prove to be valuable allies? Seems like too exciting an opportunity to pass up.

[Raven 2010]

Personally I have to problem with this games end game you have reason to risk death is for needed loot aka scrap metal the max amount of time you can live if your not a blubbering idiot is how long is the needed loot going to last you run out of X your play time starts ticking down till your death 4 zones with loot that you need when you run out of X needed thing you have to move on or watch your run come to a end even then there is a max on how long you can survive if you manage to stay alive till then personally I wish that you didn't have a hard caped survival time if you made it to that good for you go get a sandwich your blood sugar is probably low from not eating if you marathon gaming sessions like I do there will always come a time when you have to move on to stay alive and there will always be a finale day to live a day to die

Also I do believe that multiplayer could and new depths of gameplay but it would take away from the games atmosphere of you and you alone and would take considerable amount of time to balance it and time is something the delves are stretched thin on already

Also MATCHES YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TO MANY MATCHES YOU CAN BE FINE ON WOOD FOR A LONG TIME BUT NEVER LEAVE THE MATCHES SITING THERE

[Wintermute]

Multiplayer: Just sayin, if this game had it, my wife would also play... as it is, she wont because she thinks it's too scary

I'd love to have a friend in the Long Dark!

[ridankrad]

I believe Hinterland has made it clear that there are no plans for multiplayer for TLD. That said, here are my thoughts about the idea. I think multiplayer as a general concept is fun, but as someone who also plays DayZ I have to recognize some practical concerns.

For one, hacking. This is an ongoing problem with DayZ. Hinterland is a small studio with a limited budget, so there is just a practical concern of the opportunity cost in devoting resources to continually update the game simply to avoid hacking.

Next, kill on sight. I've seen let's plays that demonstrate more "sane" player interactions, but in my own personal experience, DayZ has generally devolved into a kill on sight, PvP game. Which is fine, I guess; PvP is fun. But I don't think PvP is at all what Hinterland has in mind for TLD, but that's almost certainly what it would mean unless they simply made it impossible for players to harm each other with the rifle, bow, or any other means (and even if PvP was technically impossible, I still can imagine some players camping the transition area between ML and CH to try to push unwary players off of the rail bridge).

Finally, the atmosphere. This ties in to Wintermute's comment above about his wife finding the game scary. I think this comment says a lot. The truth is that being alone is more scary than having a server full of players all running around. Cooperating with a group of friends to survive sounds fun, but it's important to remember that the feeling of isolation and the incredible atmosphere that brings to the game would be lost.

Okay, so I realize that the OP isn't just about multiplayer, so I would also like to respond to some of the other suggestions. Generally I totally agree with the idea of more dangerous threats. More aggressive bears definitely sound scary and likewise I think actual wolf packs would completely change the current dynamic with wolf encounters and be really exciting (and scary). I don't think I like the idea of rabies. There already is an infection mechanic in the game, but it sounds like OP is suggesting rabies as a disease that cannot be treated, which I don't think is a good idea (it would mean instant death from a single encounter with very little to be done to avoid it except have quicker reflexes to avoid that single bite). On the other hand, if rabies can be treated, then I'm not sure I understand how rabies (as a game concept) would differ from the infection mechanic that's already in the game. Finally, the "evil survivors" concept -- time will tell what story mode brings, but I think that introducing human enemies would push TLD much more in the direction of a traditional FPS. I enjoy FPS games, but there are plenty of them out there, and there are even survival games that already have human enemies (e.g. The Forest). I'm all for making TLD more difficult, but I'd like to see it continue to make its challenge more about surviving nature rather than fighting other people, since the latter has lots of games already while the former does not.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I don't agree with everything, but lots of creative ideas, OP.

[Giga]

The way I see it, Multiplayer would be an optional mode. If a player wants to play solo (like it is now) they would still have that option. If they want multiplayer, they would have that too. I for one feel that Kill On Sight from other players is what would potentially make the game even more intense.

I'm not sure I understand how rabies (as a game concept) would differ from the infection mechanic that's already in the game.

My idea is that rabies would make the animals themselves more aggressive and dangerous + they'd carry an increased risk of (curable) infection.

Rabid wolves, for example, would have a much larger agro range than healthy wolves + they'd have the ability to infect other animals, so avoiding them would be harder and killing them would be beneficial (to stop them from spreading rabies all over the place).

The way I see it, TLD End Game doesn't necessarily have to be more difficult. It just needs to stop player from getting nice and cozy in once place and staying there forever. It needs to push players out of their comfort zone, force them to keep relocating and exploring and scavenging for supplies.

This is my idea behind Polar Bears who follow the player around and appear in any place the player is after a day or two, or Evil Survivors who want to kill and rob the player. The player doesn't necessarily have to fight any of them - he can just relocate, or sneak past them - but if they wanted to fight, they'd have the option to do so. This I feel would make the end game more intense and challenging.

[cowboymrh]

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more about ruining this game by making it multiplayer!

There's already a GAZILLION first person shooters out there and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is infested with insecure, childish peeps who have to HACK the game to feed their precious fragile egos!

This game is about YOU surviving with your wits, self control, patience, and sound judgement, and THAT is what makes it so unique.

More aggressive animals in Stalker Mode??? No problem!! More activities to keep us occupied after we master the survival skills???? By all means!! But please, please, please Hinterlands, don't turn this game into "just another" HACK FEST with everyone whining, complaining, and cursing about cheaters all the time.

I have faith that the DEVS will, and are addressing many of the end game issues. Give them a chance. The game is still in development.

[DarkUncleBoh]

There's already a GAZILLION first person shooters out there and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is infested with insecure, childish peeps who have to HACK the game to feed their precious fragile egos!

While I personally am not convinced that putting work into multiplayer play for TLD would be the best use of limited developer time and resources, in my opinion the above would only be relevant if multiplayer were implemented in an a generic and wholly inappropriate way for TLD.

-- PvP is one of the big things that brings in the "insecure childish peeps", but IMO would have no place in TLD which should focus on co-op only.

-- A lot of MP FPS games have been trending to more and more and more players, but IMO a limit of 4 players absolute max would be appropriate for TLD.

-- A lot of issues with other games come up on dedicated servers that are running at all times, even when players are not in the game (making it so that those with more time on their hands can "out compete" others, and thus attracting more players who are interested in "winning" over others), but again this would have no place in TLD for which a dedicated server would make no sense - just a "local" run game (in quotes because there is no reason a friend shouldn't be able to join over the net, but the game should be run locally - no on a central server, no servers listings for random people to join, etc).

Personally I do play several other MP FPS games - and agree that TLD shouldn't go in the direction that many of those do... but there is still a LOT of room for a co-op focused implementation. Frankly, while there are a ton of the "other" kind of games, there are an unfortunately small number of FPS games with a true co-op focus - which would fit very well with the survival side of things.

...besides, if they implemented co-op in TLD, I could finally give my girlfriend the answer she wants to hear whenever she sees me playing and asks if this is something she could play with me.

[Foxen]

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more about ruining this game by making it multiplayer!

There's already a GAZILLION first person shooters out there and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is infested with insecure, childish peeps who have to HACK the game to feed their precious fragile egos!

This game is about YOU surviving with your wits, self control, patience, and sound judgement, and THAT is what makes it so unique.

More aggressive animals in Stalker Mode??? No problem!! More activities to keep us occupied after we master the survival skills???? By all means!! But please, please, please Hinterlands, don't turn this game into "just another" HACK FEST with everyone whining, complaining, and cursing about cheaters all the time.

I have faith that the DEVS will, and are addressing many of the end game issues. Give them a chance. The game is still in development.

Thank you so much...I couldn't have said it better!

I've already tried to explain that several times but...you'll see the Result when reading the Answers you get here...

...and CoOp?

What's the Point in CoOp-Playing in TLD?

Sitting together...sewing Animal-Clothing?

Hunting?

It's far to easy as it is right now...

Wandering around...together?

Sitting by the Fire yelling folk songs?

If you want to do something like that...hey...go outside and do it!

Call some Friends (if you still have some...and that's no offense or ment rude...i'm just seeing so many 'youngsters' without any RL-Friends...because of 'exessive sitting in Front of a Monitor and being in the INet'!) and have fun at the Fire!

Just do something 'together' in RL...that's wayyyy more Fun!

So what's the Point for CoOp/Multiplayer in general in TLD?

[DarkUncleBoh]

So what's the Point for CoOp/Multiplayer in general in TLD?

The point for me would be mostly to be have fun while playing with my girlfriend (and possibly one of my best friends when he comes over with his laptop).

I would love to go out hunting and camping in RL with friends. Unfortunately while my second spinal surgery five years ago restored the use of my left leg, my days of doing much outdoors have to be left back in my 30's. Likewise any such activities aren't likely in my girlfriend's future, as even walking with a cane she often has difficulty walking more than 100 feet without a rest (she has MS).

Regardless of our specific situations, the argument of "doing it in real life is more fun" feels like an odd one to apply to multiplayer mechanics - as it seems to hold equally true for single-player.

Yes the game as it is right I find it too easy, but I'm confident that it won't always be that way (knowing balance is an ongoing process, and this game is still in early access - also hopeful for the possibility of modded content down the road). Besides that...

-- food: yes two can hunt/harvest more than one, but it also means that looted food will go half as far when in a pinch and/or before you're equipped to hunt well

-- water: less of an issue, but the same situation... toilet water won't last as long before you need to melt/boil some more water

-- non-renewable resources: more food consumed means more chances for random food poisoning, more clothing means more sewing kits used, if you look at each bullet by a matter of how long you can survive off of the meat from a single round... they won't go as far... etc, etc

To be clear: There absolutely will be many areas of the game that would be easier playing co-op, particularly as a result of the increased carry capacity. The point of the above is simply to point out that it is not "that simple"... and while such gameplay doesn't appeal to all, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place in a game like this.

[Foxen]

First: I'm sorry for your personal situation, something like this makes me feel sad every time I hear of.

But...in my thinking (and now I have to go really OT...sry for that but I just have to, now that I know of your Situation...) isn't that exactly what !Friends! are for?

If someone is 'disabled' in any way (and it doesn't matter to me, what kind of disability that may be!), then a Friend has to 'help out' in Situations where this 'Disability' is a Reason for not being able to do such things!

These 'Illnesses' (Sry, I don't know how I should name it without sounding like an A****le :oops: ) shouldn't hold you from doing Things, you'd enjoy.

Trust me...so many Things are doable, even if you think they would be impossible.

A Friend of mine tells me very often:

If I can go hunting with you, chained on a Rollchair, then I can do nearly everything!

And I had to learn 'the hard way': He's right! One just has to try...

Sry again for going way OT, but I had to write that!

For your (personal) Reason to have a MP-System...to play with your wife:

In my Opinion it's much more Fun to play such a Game like TLD 'together' on different Mashines.

To explain that:

I have six Systems standing here and from time to Time I use to play different Games with Friends (and/or my Girlfriend and her three Children...) on these Systems.

Sometimes she plays next to me on the other System while I'm playing on my Main-System and we have so much fun just because of the fact that we experience different Situations at the same time.

I think that is way more Fun than 'being in the same Situation at the same time' on two different Mashines.

And the last thing I'll throw in here ist the fact, that TLD is meant to be 'Surviving on your own...not with two or even more People...' (at least till the final release with the Story-Mode)

No one (exept for the Devs) knows what's coming up when 'the Story begins'

[DarkUncleBoh]

First: I'm sorry for your personal situation, something like this makes me feel sad every time I hear of.

While I don't point out any of that for sympathy, I do appreciate the sentiment. Anything further on that subject is neither relevant nor appropriate for this forum, so I will politely refuse to comment and request that you let it lie as well.

In my Opinion it's much more Fun to play such a Game like TLD 'together' on different Mashines.

And there it is. In your opinion.

On the other hand, in my opinion, games like TLD can be so much more fun to play together. I've been a hardcore gamer for over 30 years - and by far the most memorable times that I have in playing games involved overcoming a challenge, or reacting to something unexpected, together with a friend in the game. My girlfriend and I do a lot of playing single-player games in the same room - but we also have a lot of fun playing other survival based games co-op... yet always find ourselves wishing that those games had less focus on combat or PvP or horror or building, and instead had more focus on survival. So many of the mechanics in TLD are exactly what we wish for in the other games that we do play co-op.

As I've said many times - I don't know that I'd want the devs to put some of their limited resources into including a co-op option. But if they did, I can predict four things: 1) You'd still play single player, 2) I'd play much more of the game (split between single and co-op), 3) I'd personally buy at least 2 or 3 more copies of the game to gift to friends I'd be interested in playing with, and 4) that the opinions of others won't be taken into account when it comes to how much fun I'd have playing with my friends.

[LinieBurrito456]

@DarkUncleBoh

I`m 100% with you, my "problems" with games are the same.

I love to play with my friends or with my son but there are not much game out without killing each other or open world to explore.

And I don`t like and I don`t play Ego-Shooter.

So I`m really with you with co-op, on x-box we can play together on split-screen without server or online-modus.

I would very welcome co-op, anyone who don`t like it can also play in single-mode, there is no problem.