(Fine) Tuning your Experience

[Hatchet]

Hi, my name is Hatchet and i like to cut down trees and write long texts.

...

I have a few ideas on how to tune certain aspects of the game, i also have an idea on how to improve the whole game overall, i'm not sure if i should post this alongside or in the 'Alpha Wish List Board', apologies if it has no place here but i'll go ahead anyway and that's the topic i'll start with;

Fine-tuning your experience;

Right now in the game there are only three difficulty modes, wether those get altered or completely changed, will not affect the possibility of what i am about to say.

These three difficulty modes are rather basic and limited and not much if anything at all is explained, now don't get me wrong, it's survival and it's at it's finest when nothing is explained, with a few exceptions ofcourse, things you just need to know, like a better explaining text stating what difficulty setting has which rules, but then after a while you start to familiarize yourself with the game and start to build that knowledge for yourself and you want to take it a step higher, you set bounderies and goals for yourself to achieve within the game, you try out the more difficult settings and after a while you know pretty much all there is to know and explored every area of the game.

I know this is the Alpha version of the game, but please follow me on this i am thinking of what this game will be able to offer us, the people that play now when the game gets an official release in the future.

I'm sure Hinterland Studios already set certain standards and bounderies for what they want to achieve, they'll run out of space and time someday so how can they improve this game without taking up too much space and time, without ruining our experience but giving it tremendous replay value?

Very simple might i add, if it was possible for the players to adjust certain aspects of the game before starting the actual sandbox or even story mode once it's released then i'm sure players would it enjoy it a lot longer.

For instance, you'd be able to adjust the overall difficulty by allowing us to mess with pretty much everything that is possible within those lines, perhaps the the presence of wildlife, the occurence of weather effects, a minimum and maximum degree count, item spawns, just to give you guys a couple of ideas.

To mix it up even more, you'd be able to adjust the aspects for every single map you've unlocked, but certain aspects would be tied to all the maps, for instance; clothing/weapon durability, thirst/hunger/etc...

Imagine you'd have to survive an out of control bear population without a single rifle, only to arrive in an extremely cold enviroment where no wildlife could survive above the surface but with big fish under the ice and plenty remnants of damn tourists.

You get the point.

So that's pretty much what my fine tuning idea is about, now onto the smaller things, things i would like to see tweaked;

1. Clothing;

- Worn clothing should not take up weight as it is evenly distributed among the body, consumed food does also not encumber the player, unless he went to McDonald's har har har.

- Fully repairing damaged clothing (1%) made from hides takes up ~5% more hide than what is originally needed to craft the piece, this feels more like something that has been overlooked. (For instance; The vest made from wolf pelt (at 1% durability) will require 3 wolf pelts to repair to ~97%)

It would make much more sense would players be able to harvest pelts/hides into smaller scraps, for instance; 1 wolf pelt would harvest into 3 scraps (knife required) , the wolf vest would require 5 scraps for a full repair (20% per scrap).

2. Sleeping

- Since we're carrying a loaded backpack instead of keeping our items in bottomless pockets, i suggest that the player automatically takes of the backpack when going to sleep, not only for obvious reasons beyond simple logic, but also because i think the current sleeping mechanic drives away from the experience, simply because it happens to fast if anyone catches my drift, an animation would help, even a small animation, but now it's pretty much instant *hoppa* into the sack *hoppa* outta the sack, pretty dull , i hope there are some improvements planned for this.

3. Maps

- While some maps really shine and feel just right, some other in my opinion don't; they feel too small, some things are too clustered together.

- The Mystery Lake and Pleasant Valley maps are perfect in size, difficulty, layout and so on but it seems like the further we go down the line the less mysterious and pleasant these maps start to feel like, it's not because i'm feeling familiar with the game it's simply because the magic i felt when playing ML and PV maps was not present when playing Coastal highway and Point what's it called, the last one felt least favorable, almost like a demo map.

- The CH map felt odd and had a simple layout in comparison to ML/PV, because of this; wildlife was most of the time present in odd places, it felt like the frozen lake was my freezer, always, and i mean always full of fresh food, what is it doing there? Oh rite... freezer!

The slope is a bit too steep and not wide enough, an entire corner is impassable due to a mountain which could be fixed with a partial cave leading to the cottages at the far end of the road leading to the crumbled highway, i also think the map should curve more, the overal layout should be more like a big C instead of a bended I.

- The Point forget map, for what it was actually felt rather cool and inspiring.

Entering with clear vision and you'd get an immediate warm invitation to the lighthouse, it's almost imploring you to check that one out first, one can see a broken shiphull in the distance and from there some sort of warehouse, one would think this would be the start of a fantastic map, but once you did those three areas you did pretty much everything, plus, save for the lighthouse and broken ship, the whaling factory isn't much to write home about, i didn't get the feeling whales were being slaughtered there, i was more like uh dinosaur? More seriously, the bones felt odd and out of place, the factory was too clustered and too open, i didn't find it intriguing.

Sadly enough it's a very small map, it would be nice to see the mountain removed, a road added to a bigger factory and few stretches of forest further inward.

The mines could then be a bit further in, perhaps another furnace could be added to the second bigger factory.

This map was done better than CH in some ways, it's just way too small, i liked the neat secret cave though, that was awesome!

4. Wildlife

- Crows should in some instances fly over hunt the player killed, a fresh carcass that blead to death, nothing really escapes the eyes of a crow, makes it easier for the player to track down it's runaway meal.

- A fresh carcass freezes too quickly, it's thick winter pelt and leftover body heat should keep it at 0% the first few minutes at below zero temperatures.

I hope that anyone who read this enjoyed it, and thumbs up for this awesome game, keep up the good work!

My name is Hatchet and i like to cut down trees and write long texts, bye!

[J20shrapnel]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that crows could play a role in carcass location. They really should stop hanging around old depleted bodies too.

There maybe more who've mentioned this. Yours is the first I've run across so far.

[Hatchet]

I demand this topics gets more attention, wait... i wrote this? Ah that makes a lot of sense, that's why it's so well written, that's why... my ego is getting in the way again it seems, my apologies.

Anyway back on topic, glad you like that idea.

[GoldenH]

Right now I'm thinking the best solution would be to let the users make mods that alter the difficulty of the game. This could be a lot more in depth than simple sliders, allowing players to add or remove items that fit their idea of fun, adjust how safe houses are (or how often they are burned down), and maybe even being able to write custom AI scripts (So that animals react to fire differently for ex.) There could be graphics update mods and story mods too! This would give people the additional playstyles they crave while defining them as separate experiences from the developer intended one.

[Hatchet]

Right now I'm thinking the best solution would be to let the users make mods that alter the difficulty of the game. This could be a lot more in depth than simple sliders, allowing players to add or remove items that fit their idea of fun, adjust how safe houses are (or how often they are burned down), and maybe even being able to write custom AI scripts (So that animals react to fire differently for ex.) There could be graphics update mods and story mods too! This would give people the additional playstyles they crave while defining them as separate experiences from the developer intended one.

I think the best solution would be to have both a given experience by the developers while also having the ability to create your own experience, and no no no, i'm not talking about simple sliders, i'm talking about pretty much everything you said save for the graphics.

With custom fine tuning anyone can "mod" their game, while third party mods will again give players an experience by the developer from that specefic mod or combined mods, again will it lack the possiblity to give all players who should want; their own experience.

With the exception of a mod that gives players the ability to fine tune their experience, if this one ever gets made, because if it doesn't, there is no exception.

So i strongly have to disagree on what you say when you say fan created mods will give the non creators the experience they want, this does not applies to me nor would it apply to everybody, that's a fact.

Your statement is false, no offence intended and thank you for your reply!

I cannot make mods, can you?

[GoldenH]

I I guess you've never modded skyrim?ve modded many games it is very easy and installing other peoples mods can be done with just the mouse on steam.

[Hatchet]

I I guess you've never modded skyrim?ve modded many games it is very easy and installing other peoples mods can be done with just the mouse on steam.

What are you on about? I ask you if you can make mods then you tell me installing a mod is simple, you tell this to a guy on the internet, on a gaming forum... :?

There is a difference between making a mod and installing a mod, looks like you misunderstood me on purpose, man!

Not trying to start a fight here, but i can tell it's going in that direction...

(Should you be so inclided to know)

First modded game i played was Half-Life Sven-Co-op

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Co-op

But i've been playing online ever since 1996*, most people didn't even know what the internet was back then.

Perhaps we got a bit off on the wrong foot here Golden, reply and i'll listen without trying to sound too arrogant, i hope you take no offence if i do but i appreciate your time and effort in this thread, sometimes my words may come out more powerfull than i had intended, my upfront apologies.

Edit: I love you!

[GoldenH]

Sorry my message was very short because I was writing it on my cell phone. To answer your question yes I have modded games. It can be simple as editing a text file or as complicated as compiling a dll. Typically I use the modding power to adjust the game to my personal taste. Perhaps this is giving me a little insight on the work needed to be done to give everyone the power to make their "own experience".

Asking them to even let you change things like blizzard frequency or item spawn rate means exposing not just a variable but a potentially complicated formula or even a code block (the weather seems more like a gradually changing model than a sequence of randomly selected states). Things like choosing item spawn locations might even require a map editor. These things will by necessity be paired with obscure documentation that present a barrier to entry. At the point where you can save your world settings and share them with others you have just created a mod.

Allowing people to apply them through the steam workshop (as they do with the language packs) would be about as difficult as buying dlc (EG not at all).

But more to the point it is asking the developers to anticipate the demand for common game modes and produce them for us. While they might be able to add a few modes it would be lacking customization and take away from the development of the game and the polishing of their vision. It's totally reasonable for them to allow us to create those modes without releasing the game assets to the public. It also means it would be up to the community to create mods and tools to mod the game easily to end users. Mods could even add a new options menu to the game menu to allow these things to be adjusted from within the game removing any problem with accessibility.

In the end if the community does not want the modes enough to make the mod then it means there was not enough demand to justify the hinterlands team making the mode anyway.

[FINDarkside]

Even if the modding would not be as easy as editing text file, the hard part would only need to be done once. Someone just makes a mod manager that loads dll files (or compiles them from source) and then hooks into the game. Now you have access to all methods and fields tld uses and it takes one line of code to make the player jump. Doesn't sound too bad does it? We would already have those difficulty sliders if Hinterland allowed modding.

[Hatchet]

I did indeed mod games? I didn't know writing simple scripts on Scar to enhance your game was also modding, cool

GTA Vice City didn't had a cheat not to die and be able to swim so i made one, and a few others.

Appreciate the long text, the only reason i think why Hinterland won't do it, is because it's too hard for them, and that's alright, nothing to be ashamed about.

It's good if they know their capabilities, but i'm not making hasty assumptions as i don't think i am 100% right on this as usually there is a bit more to it.

[toebar]

I highly doubt Hinterland don't know how to do it-- you're talking about a group of highly experienced developers--- check out their bios if you don't believe me (I think I saw them on the home page?).

Here is why they don't allow fine detail customization.

And that is a perfectly reasonable position.

Modding would be great though, to allow these other ideas that people have to be explored.

[Wasteland Watcher]

I like this topic a lot.

+1 vote/thumbs up on crows playing a role in locating bodies. I'd be thrilled if crows started flying over wolves that have bled out or deers that a wolf has killed.

Regarding mods: that's a dual-edged sword that I think makes some developers lazy (I'm looking RIGHT AT YOU, Bethesda Softworks).

Personally I believe metal tools should be maintained to keep the edge sharp and for that alone.

I sincerely am AGAINST the idea of my knife being broken beyond any usefulness after I gutted and skinned 50 deer and wolves. That is just nonsense.

I sincerely hope the only solution to that is NOT a mod, but rather, the developers making the decision to have metal act more realistically like metal in-game.

Now, on mods, if I could only have a SINGLE mod to change ONE aspect of the game and no others ...it would be for as realistic as possible textures.

I realize this will be a sore point for some who really love the artistic oil paint look of everything, but, I do not. Not at all.

That being said, though I do not like the graphics (textures being used, actually) I absolutely love this game and continue to play even though my 73-day game was inexplicably erased when there was a power outage. Of course I posted a 'trouble call' on it in the support forum but...that was the end of support for that.

I started a new game and am now on day 30. And I've gone completely off topic. My apologies.

Okay but back on topic:

I completely think being able to tweak many aspects of the game world would make a more entertaining sandbox for some and am all for that.

However, for the people who are into leader boards, I do not think they should tweak *anything* so they are all on the same playing field.

I'm not into leader boards at all, by the way.

[Hatchet]

I highly doubt Hinterland don't know how to do it-- you're talking about a group of highly experienced developers--- check out their bios if you don't believe me (I think I saw them on the home page?).

Here is why they don't allow fine detail customization.

And that is a perfectly reasonable position.

Modding would be great though, to allow these other ideas that people have to be explored.

I withdraw what i said about them not knowing how to, i don't even know why i would say something like that :? did had a few shots but... ah well

And luckely i am free to choose wether i agree with Raphael or not, and i don't want to agree with him

And whatever i said about modding giving players a "set" experience, don't get me wrong, i'm all in for mods.

I like this topic a lot.

+1 vote/thumbs up on crows playing a role in locating bodies. I'd be thrilled if crows started flying over wolves that have bled out or deers that a wolf has killed.

Regarding mods: that's a dual-edged sword that I think makes some developers lazy (I'm looking RIGHT AT YOU, Bethesda Softworks).

Personally I believe metal tools should be maintained to keep the edge sharp and for that alone.

I sincerely am AGAINST the idea of my knife being broken beyond any usefulness after I gutted and skinned 50 deer and wolves. That is just nonsense.

I sincerely hope the only solution to that is NOT a mod, but rather, the developers making the decision to have metal act more realistically like metal in-game.

Now, on mods, if I could only have a SINGLE mod to change ONE aspect of the game and no others ...it would be for as realistic as possible textures.

I realize this will be a sore point for some who really love the artistic oil paint look of everything, but, I do not. Not at all.

That being said, though I do not like the graphics (textures being used, actually) I absolutely love this game.

I completely think being able to tweak many aspects of the game world would make a more entertaining sandbox for some and am all for that.

However, for the people who are into leader boards, I do not think they should tweak *anything* so they are all on the same playing field.

I'm not into leader boards at all, by the way.

Thanks for your input, shame you dislike the graphics, some people just don't know what fine art is, nah man just kidding I totally understand it's personal preference.

The leaderboard "issue" can be easely fixed, disable them for custom difficulty, like Minecraft did with creative mode.