Empty cartridges & Teeth

[Amwho]

I think adding something simple like adding empty bullet cartridges is a good idea because it would fit right in with the recent update where can place items on shelves. This could mean you could place empty cartridges as a sort of collection on a shelf. Also, being able to harvest some sort of trophy from animal would be a cool feature. For example, taking a tooth from a wolf or bear. Another idea is making neclaces out of these teeth, however in my opinion that is pushing it.

[Patrick Carlson]

While I see my wolfskin coat as a kind of trophy, given the time it takes me to manufacture one, I see what you mean. As far as the tooth necklace, I don't have much direct knowledge of that practice. Is that a hunting tradition in northern cultures? (honest question)

[Boston123]

It was, and still is, a "hunting tradition" in many cultures. "Taking a trophy", that is.

That Buck head mounted on the wall ring a bell?

All I know is that if I killed a wolf, I would be making a necklace/something out of its teeth. Same thing with a bear and its claws. That means I killed this. Look at what I did

[SteveP]

As far as the tooth necklace, I don't have much direct knowledge of that practice. Is that a hunting tradition in northern cultures?

Definitely! You also have the opportunity to take the antlers from a buck. Bear claws are much prized. While these things do little functionally, they occupy time and give the person a sense of accomplishment. In survival, keeping up one's morale is important especially late at night during a storm! I think it would make a nice game addition. Antlers also make superior handles for knives as well as a percussion tool for taking flakes off flint when knapping to makes stone points and blades and scrapers. Such a tool might be required in the game for preparing hides to make them soft, supple and lighter than our heavy old buckskin & wolf skin coats. Wolf and rabbit fur are used for the trimming especially the hood. You could make heavy mitts from any leather and then line it with rabbit skin to make it warm. There is no end to all the cool things you could do with clothing to make the game more realistic and fun. Decorations for the coat would be nice, made from beads and teeth. Beads can be made from bone or antler or shells.

If you fast for several days, you should have a vision of your spirit animal. Perhaps aided by some mushrooms.

We should also have willow bark for pain killer.

[SteveP]

Empty cartridges can be reloaded if one has a cartridge press, bullets, gunpowder and primers. It's a good way to make new ammunition. Wrong gunpowder or primers and the gun will explode or jam.

[Patrick Carlson]

It was, and still is, a "hunting tradition" in many cultures. "Taking a trophy", that is.

That Buck head mounted on the wall ring a bell?

All I know is that if I killed a wolf, I would be making a necklace/something out of its teeth. Same thing with a bear and its claws. That means I killed this. Look at what I did

No, I get that for sure. I'm of course familiar with trophy hunting in general (although not a hunter myself).

It was just the meaning of the tooth-necklace specifically that I was curious about. If it had some special significance. But the comparison you make between wolf teeth and bear claws seems pretty clear. Thanks!

[JErosion]

while i understand the desire to take a trophy from a troublesome wolf (Fluffy and Sadie Im looking at you) something about carrying a necklace of wolf teeth seems a little ghoulish. Unless wearing such a thing(bearclaw necklace included) would have an effect on how some NPCs might regard you. Otherwise it would serve no purpose

[Boston123]

while i understand the desire to take a trophy from a troublesome wolf (Fluffy and Sadie Im looking at you) something about carrying a necklace of wolf teeth seems a little ghoulish. Unless wearing such a thing(bearclaw necklace included) would have an effect on how some NPCs might regard you. Otherwise it would serve no purpose

That is what I was thinking, and was actually just going to write it as a reply to Mr Carson above.

Maybe, when NPCs get implemented ( I am, rather unfortunately, assuming that there are going to be some possibly-violent people), they are less likely to be violent right away if you can demonstrate enough "testicular/ovarian fortitude", as it were, by having a necklace of wolf teeth or bear claws worn? Of course, it would require a decent number of each..... I wouldn't waste my time working on a necklace for 4 measly teeth/claws. 20+, on the other hand, proves you've got 1) some stones and 2) a steady hand with a rifle/bow

[danicusrex]

I killed this. Look at what I did

Who are you showing? If NPCs start showing up that's one thing (a bearclaw/ wolf teeth necklace would be quite the intimidating thing)... but right now that seems like a weird way to use resources.

[SteveP]

It was just the meaning of the tooth-necklace specifically that I was curious about. If it had some special significance. But the comparison you make between wolf teeth and bear claws seems pretty clear. Thanks!

The meaning is entirely social and psychological but nevertheless very significant. One who had earned the right to wear a Grizzly Bear Claw Necklace was indeed very brave and powerful.

The following web page gives some background. Much is lost to antiquity unfortunately.

Grizzly Bear Claw Necklace

[alunasmoon]

i would love to remake bullets and i think that if a bullet making set up should be anywhere it should be the trappers cabin. i think if we add trophy's like that it should be random chance, like.."while harvesting you found a bear claw" should pop up

[SteveP]

LOL. Just for information for those not familiar with firearms.

A Bullet is the actual projectile, typically lead with a copper jacket.

A Case is the empty shell of the cartridge before assembly or after firing typically.

A Primer is a small bit containing a delicate explosive designed to set off the primary charge.

A Cartridge is the assembled case, primer, charge and bullet, ready to fire.

Cartridges

Reloading cartridges is not a simple job but it is something that would make a great addition to TLD. It's a fairly complex and lengthy procedure however with a forge and a supply of primers and powder, one could hypothetically have an indefinite supply of hunting ammo.

I think the game leans toward being an adventure exploration game so not sure if they would want to get this detailed. Personally, I think it would be a net plus because of the necessity to scavenge all the necessary items and tools.

[Patrick Carlson]

It was just the meaning of the tooth-necklace specifically that I was curious about. If it had some special significance. But the comparison you make between wolf teeth and bear claws seems pretty clear. Thanks!

The meaning is entirely social and psychological but nevertheless very significant. One who had earned the right to wear a Grizzly Bear Claw Necklace was indeed very brave and powerful.

The following web page gives some background. Much is lost to antiquity unfortunately.

Grizzly Bear Claw Necklace

Thanks for this link, SteveP. Adds a huge amount of context to this discussion. Lots of pride displayed in those images.

[Grimsley99]

I was hoping that most of this discussion would be about how to use such resources as Teeth, Bear Claws and Cartridges as weapons and more useful resources. As one post says, "Its a bit Ghoulish", I completely agree. It might be so ghoulish that in the storyline, the wearable might lower his/her self-esteem and/or willpower. That is what the game is centred around.

A Tooth or a Bear Claw would be ideal for makeshift weapons. Heck, a Tooth would be a perfect arrow head. Cartridges could be broken down for spare scrap-metal, or used for some other future use (Just pointing that out).

Just remember, the way you guys (or girls) are suggesting the wearables to be used frightens animals away, but the point of the game is to attack these animals to get the resources, so what is the point? These wearables would frighten off Deer and Wolves. Let us not forget that Wolves are valuable as that it is easy to lure and relatively easy to kill*. Bears are also valuable because of their meat ridiculously easy to lure and kill. Why do you want to scare them off.

*I understand that while traversing the land they definitely become annoying, so there may be some point to what you guys/girls are saying.

[Eachna]

I was hoping that most of this discussion would be about how to use such resources as Teeth, Bear Claws and Cartridges as weapons and more useful resources. As one post says, "Its a bit Ghoulish", I completely agree. It might be so ghoulish that in the storyline, the wearable might lower his/her self-esteem and/or willpower. That is what the game is centred around.

Why is it any more ghoulish to make a decorative item from what you kill, than it is to use the fur for clothes? Making jewelry from animal parts in this situation is a way to maintain a little bit of your humanity. Jewelry is art, everything else you can make in the game is a tool.

If I ended up in the zombie apocalypse (or in this case zombie-less) and my continued survival revolved around my ability to provide my own food, water, and heat, I would be very happy to be in a position to have time and resources to 'waste' on a little bit of art. It would mean I had accomplished more than the literal bare minimum for survival. It would boost my esteem and self-worth, not lower it.

Just remember, the way you guys (or girls) are suggesting the wearables to be used frightens animals away, but the point of the game is to attack these animals to get the resources, so what is the point? These wearables would frighten off Deer and Wolves. Let us not forget that Wolves are valuable as that it is easy to lure and relatively easy to kill*. Bears are also valuable because of their meat ridiculously easy to lure and kill. Why do you want to scare them off.

You mis-read what people are suggesting. They're suggesting using the wear-ables to frighten away *human* NPCs (after they're implemented).

[ernestww]

I like the idea of the bear claw necklace and the notion that it should be a right of passage and should confer some kind of effect.

Earlier in TLD game development I suggested a character metric such as ‘Psychological State’. Perhaps similar to ‘This War of Mine’ (another thoughtful and unique game that I would recommend). In TWOM if your character kills a person or is wounded, robbed or starving they may become sad or depressed and eventually may even become suicidal.

Further, it was interesting in the History Channel survival show ‘Alone’ how psychology played a decisive role in the contestants success. You could even conclude that in every case where the participants quit it was psychological. Yes they were hungry, exhausted, etc., but none were really in any imminent danger...yet they quit.

Hinterland has not implemented a metric like this. I suspect a creative decision may have been made to defer any psychology from the character to the player. This is sound, but programmed psychology may still may have future potential.

I suggest allowing a bear necklace after ‘X’ number of bear kills. Crafting the item would confer ‘Y’ qualities on the individual. Perhaps greater constitution, a roll chance a bear will be afraid of you...etc.

Continuing this thread of thought, consider a craftable Medicine Pouch/bag. Another native American sacred item.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_bag) Maybe it becomes craftable after ‘X’ days (100 - 200)? The effects could be very interesting to consider. Do you have different medicine pouches you can make, similar to an MMO skills tree? From a gameplay standpoint the milestone would increase character value and increase the perma-death stakes.

Happy gaming,

Ernest

[SteveP]

The claw and tooth necklace should confer some sort of ability such as fore-shadowing perhaps of weather or animals. It could also convey a healing property and the experience should count toward inner resilience; that grit that helps one persevere in difficulty, survive a predator attack and so forth. Perhaps a second life. Or a spectral vision of past events. :-) One very handy item could be some sort of path finder tool or map to aid in location of treasures and caches.

I maintain that one very important thing you would do with brass cases is retain them for producing cartridges later on by reloading. A more primitive weapon which is craftable, could be a musket that takes primitive powder, not the high tech fast burning powder needed for reloading cartridges. Muskets, being breech loaders, don't use cartridges; just powder, a pad and a ball. You need a loading rod to ram the powder and then the bullet/ball as well as a powder measure.

[Grimsley99]

I think you would be onto something, if it weren't for the fact that this isn't that kind of game. The musket idea I like, but asking them to take away the whole point of perma-death, or the harshness of the survival game; NO! Give an item the ability of healing or protection from harsh elements can ruin what this game is and can be. Sorry for being so negative.

Also, so far there is no third person, so unless you plan to hang a necklace of bear claws on a hanger or in a picture frame, there is no point to the trophy necklace.