Food poisoning with cooked food?

[KD7BCH]

I would like to understand if raw fish which at one time did not cause illness at the same rate as raw mammal meat did is supposed to be that or equal.

I would like to understand if cooked meat offers any safety zone or if we should exploit hunger and only eat at the end of a 3 day stretch when we are at base came.

I would like to understand what is working as intended means. You say cooked food reduces the chance, but that isn't what is being reported. If 1/3 chance for high % meat is working as intended Id relay that as a poor change which will be detrimental to the game. Nobody wants to roll a 1/3 die with the odds of getting sick on meat that is 90%.

Patrick can we get a clarification here?

[selfless]

I don't understand why anyone is afraid of food poisoning at all. It will not kill you. And it goes away by itself almost as fast as the treatment rest period requires. Inconvenient, yes. A killer, no.

[KD7BCH]

If you get it 1/3 times you eat meat then it becomes inconvenient to the point that as a pile on condition it is very serious. It is also capable of taking you to 15% condition and that also is very serious because you likely won't survive even one wolf encounter at that level. Aside from the danger as far as inconvenience, yeah getting food poisoning twice a week is pretty lame.

[ChillPlayer]

Exactly. If you have enough food and water at home FP isn't a biggy, but let it catch you when you are already suffering from hunger without any water and dare to eat that yummie 60% cooked piece of venison and all hell will break lose, most likely you will fade into the long dark.

Therefor I see only one way to combat the consant thread of being poisoned: only eat if you're prepared to stay home for 10 hours or more - maybe that's what bethany ment by "works as intended"

[Scyzara]

If you get it 1/3 times you eat meat then it becomes inconvenient to the point that as a pile on condition it is very serious. It is also capable of taking you to 15% condition and that also is very serious because you likely won't survive even one wolf encounter at that level. Aside from the danger as far as inconvenience, yeah getting food poisoning twice a week is pretty lame.

You're getting a food poisoning 1/3 of the time when eating cooked meat? :shock:

No idea what you're doing, but for me it's not even a 2% chance (overall, including low quality canned food). I'm actually pretty sure I haven't had a single food poisoning from cooked meat in my last 120 days of playing (V.271). :?

I would suggest you stop hunting more than one bear (or two deer or whatever) at once in case you're doing that. Also letting raw meat decay to 50% condition on purpose before cooking it back to 100% might not be a good strategy any more.

I'm usually hunting just one or two animals (max. 1 bear), cook their raw meat at about 80-70% condition and then live on it for a few days. (Active playstyle, mainly exploration, crafting or chopping down furniture to burn through the calories). This way the cooked meat's condition hardly ever drops below 80% condition (well, sometimes 60% for bears) before it is eaten up and I have no issues with poisonings at all.

Maybe you should try that "never hunt more than you need" strategy and see if it solves your problems with poisonings.

[druffzilla]

My guess is that food gets bad when it drops 50% in total, uncooked and cooked, for example if you cook raw meat at 80% it will get bad after dropping another 30% and at 70% if cooked?

[Foxen]

Maybe you should try that "never hunt more than you need" strategy and see if it solves your problems with poisonings.

That's quite hard if you're in DP as a Pilgrim...

The Wolf there is taking down at least one deer per day...and I'll not let that decay .

Therefore you'll have at least 6kg of meat every day.

And about food poisoning and fish:

For me it didn't make any difference if the fish was cooked or raw caught fresh or was stored for one or two days...eat it six times over all and got ill every single time.

Since that I didn't eat any fish again

[brun]

I can relate to the "never hunt more than you need" approach. Often I don't harvest the meat of dead animals. You can live a week on one deer if you want to.

[thinair]

Personally, out of a bear i only take maximum 17kg. On one deer (9kg) it is possible to live ~27 days.

[thinair]

On stalker, when i get wolf + deer combo (13-14kg), i cook it right around 50-53% condition, rarely a bit below 50%.... and eat it all up, right around 50-70% (depending on how active i'm). Out of 13-14 pieces i get food poisoning maybe 1 time. I'm not sure if i got food poisoning from collected canned food, bars etc. And on my current run i ate canned food as low as 20% of condition, and most of the time its in 30-50%.

While at home, i always have food supplies and water to sleep food poisoning off without medicine. Usually takes probably 24 hours or so. At first going down from 100% to 15%, in like 8 hours, then i guess it stays there for a bit for like 4 hours, and then from 15% to 100% usually 12 hours. While travelling just use medicine. To me food poisoning is not an issue at all.

edit: eating raw meat even at high condition does give food poisoning quite a lot, i would say 30-50% of the time.

[nonnarb]

Therefor I see only one way to combat the consant thread of being poisoned: only eat if you're prepared to stay home for 10 hours or more - maybe that's what bethany ment by "works as intended"

The problem/inconvenience for me isn't so much the 10 hours, but that you have to take the antibiotics as well. Bethany from Hinterland, are you able to tell us whether the condition of the meat BEFORE we cook it (e.g. if we find a dead deer at 25%) has any bearing on the chances of us contracting food poisoning AFTER it's cooked?

[KD7BCH]

Guesses as to how this works are the problem here. The concrete facts are in the hands of the devs. They don't want to explain the mechanic anymore than they have right? So you may as well let them continue to tweak it and break it again and start the cycle all over again and then when they want feedback we'll respectfully ask them to close the forums rather than tell us anything, we just won't tell them anything. = Level of cooperation we are getting on this.

I've asked nicely and I've asked two different folks from Hinterland and have been STONEWALLED. Over information. I do not think it is unreasonable for a brief synopsis of the the current unbroken mechanic is after all of the various revisions of which we've undergone chances.

Fifty updates over the last year is not, "not that many changes". Nor can a single thread containing details or the wiki be consulted for FACTS which is what I'm looking for here and the community if being asked to give feedback on their experience should be enlightened on.

Question is why is this turning into a tug of war from the community and the devs? I mean the staff at Hinterland are doing a great job, the game is progressing excellently but we just want to know how it is supposed to work. So can we please again asking nicely and respectfully, have answers to our basic questions on how this is supposed to work?

[Vagos]

Personally, out of a bear i only take maximum 17kg. On one deer (9kg) it is possible to live ~27 days.

How can you survive 27 days with only 9kgs of meat? For sure you are exploiting the health? When do you eat just before sleep?

[Scyzara]

I guess thinair is just using the old hibernation/starvation exploit. Even though the Devs have been saying to work on a solution to fix this particular exploit for at least a whole year now, nothing has changed. And this is definitely NOT due to a lack of ideas or means to fix it. People on these Forums have suggested at least 20 possible solutions to get rid of this exploit of which at least a handful wouldn't have changed anything else about the game's balance or difficulty or whatever. Yet nothing was done about it.

I for one don't believe any longer that the Devs even want to ever fix hibernation-starvation. They probably just don't care if people abuse the game mechanics as long as they have fun doing so.

And to be honest I for one have also grown tired of getting upset about people using this exploit. I mean it just doesn't matter anyway as the leaderboards have become completely meaningless under the current game's conditions.

(In my humble opinion the overall time you survive in the current game only indicates the amount of real life time you're willing to invest, not a particularly high skill level. It's a bit like determining the world chess champion by letting every challenger sit on a chair and finally giving the title to whoever is the last to fall asleep. I mean having the willpower to stay awake a long time is kind of an achievement as well, but maybe that's not exactly what chess should be about, is it?)

[Patrick Carlson]

Therefor I see only one way to combat the consant thread of being poisoned: only eat if you're prepared to stay home for 10 hours or more - maybe that's what bethany ment by "works as intended"

The problem/inconvenience for me isn't so much the 10 hours, but that you have to take the antibiotics as well. Bethany from Hinterland, are you able to tell us whether the condition of the meat BEFORE we cook it (e.g. if we find a dead deer at 25%) has any bearing on the chances of us contracting food poisoning AFTER it's cooked?

As we know, cooking meat will make it safer to eat. And the better condition the raw meat is in before cooking, the safer it will be to eat after cooking. So yes, there is a connection there.

To address KD7BCH's comment. No, no one is being "stonewalled." But I think it's perfectly natural that we have a particular way we like to talk about and explain the game and its systems. As Bethany pointed out, the food system has a level of complexity that affects different items in different ways. Like so many aspects of The Long Dark, risk is involved in many of the decisions we make in the game.

[druffzilla]

To address KD7BCH's comment. No, no one is being "stonewalled." But I think it's perfectly natural that we have a particular way we like to talk about and explain the game and its systems. As Bethany pointed out, the food system has a level of complexity that affects different items in different ways. Like so many aspects of The Long Dark, risk is involved in many of the decisions we make in the game.

I think we can all understand you dont want do tell us about the exact mechanics, and that is good because the game should be a game and a little bit of a gamble sometimes, just doing some math and being able to predict everything is boring, but in reality you can smell on a piece of meat and your senses will tell you if its safe to eat or not, in the game we have nothing less then those numbers the game is giving us, so a little more insight is all we want... if you dont like that, then I suggest you add more different information, maybe in the description of the meat which tells us if it looks good/smells bad/should be cooked/starts to rot or something.

[haltux]

Personally, out of a bear i only take maximum 17kg. On one deer (9kg) it is possible to live ~27 days.

How can you survive 27 days with only 9kgs of meat? For sure you are exploiting the health? When do you eat just before sleep?

The idea is that instead of eating when you are hungry, you eat when you almost starved to death.

Currently, when you start starving you have basically calories for free. You are stuck at 0 and as long as you are not dead you don't need calories. When you eat again you do not have to pay back these calories that you got for free. This does not make any sense. It is an exploit in the game, hopefully Hinterland will hopefully solve it at some point.

However, this is just an exploit and should not be taken into account when discussing the gameplay. Even when you sleep all the time, if you play fairly and eat when you are hungry you need about 2kg meat / day to survive.

[KD7BCH]

Therefor I see only one way to combat the consant thread of being poisoned: only eat if you're prepared to stay home for 10 hours or more - maybe that's what bethany ment by "works as intended"

The problem/inconvenience for me isn't so much the 10 hours, but that you have to take the antibiotics as well. Bethany from Hinterland, are you able to tell us whether the condition of the meat BEFORE we cook it (e.g. if we find a dead deer at 25%) has any bearing on the chances of us contracting food poisoning AFTER it's cooked?

As we know, cooking meat will make it safer to eat. And the better condition the raw meat is in before cooking, the safer it will be to eat after cooking. So yes, there is a connection there.

To address KD7BCH's comment. No, no one is being "stonewalled." But I think it's perfectly natural that we have a particular way we like to talk about and explain the game and its systems. As Bethany pointed out, the food system has a level of complexity that affects different items in different ways. Like so many aspects of The Long Dark, risk is involved in many of the decisions we make in the game.

Thanks Patrick, so you and Bethany both wont comment on the rate at which we are getting sick on uncooked meat with high condition, only to say that it is for sure working as intended. I don't think I asked for specific formula or percentages either. But certainly the game over the various patches has swung wildly from one direction to the other and I can't find detailed documentation of how it is supposed to work anywhere on here so that is why I asked for clarification. Plenty of folks have offered their "I think" but few with facts. When the observations reported don't match the facts as they were in previous versions it is really hard to score that with how things are supposed to work, since we don't know.

[Girlybits]

What I would like to suggest is an option to re-cook meat. This would improve its "condition" at the cost of calories. So if you have already cooked meat at 60% condition with 800 calories. You might reheat it to burn off any spoiled meat and get a 90% condition meat but you only get 500 calories out of it. And this would be a realistic survival technique to make food last longer.

[selfless]

What I would like to suggest is an option to re-cook meat. This would improve its "condition" at the cost of calories. So if you have already cooked meat at 60% condition with 800 calories. You might reheat it to burn off any spoiled meat and get a 90% condition meat but you only get 500 calories out of it. And this would be a realistic survival technique to make food last longer.

IRL there are many ways food goes "off". Most involve not only biological organisms but also the toxins those organisms generate to survive being eaten. While re-cooking can kill the biological, the chemical will then be released from the dead cells, still making you sick once it is inside you.

So, not-so-realistic a solution after all. Please don't try at home.

[thinair]

I guess thinair is just using the old hibernation/starvation exploit. Even though the Devs have been saying to work on a solution to fix this particular exploit for at least a whole year now, nothing has changed. And this is definitely NOT due to a lack of ideas or means to fix it. People on these Forums have suggested at least 20 possible solutions to get rid of this exploit of which at least a handful wouldn't have changed anything else about the game's balance or difficulty or whatever. Yet nothing was done about it.

I for one don't believe any longer that the Devs even want to ever fix hibernation-starvation. They probably just don't care if people abuse the game mechanics as long as they have fun doing so.

And to be honest I for one have also grown tired of getting upset about people using this exploit. I mean it just doesn't matter anyway as the leaderboards have become completely meaningless under the current game's conditions.

(In my humble opinion the overall time you survive in the current game only indicates the amount of real life time you're willing to invest, not a particularly high skill level. It's a bit like determining the world chess champion by letting every challenger sit on a chair and finally giving the title to whoever is the last to fall asleep. I mean having the willpower to stay awake a long time is kind of an achievement as well, but maybe that's not exactly what chess should be about, is it?)

I fully hibernated only when a) ML was only map, literally a series of sprees of 50-100 days to get #1 spot, and be the 1st ever player in TLD history to reach 500 days, but i dont do that anymore, since i enjoy exploring , sleepig outside only, going on fishing trips and creating various hard challenges for myself.... THE MOST

OR

b)testing bugs which required 30-50 days of hibernation. Personally i considered as exploit only "a)". If there were means to spend time, such as reading a book or so, i would do it... so its up to devs to add additional "time spending features".

Lately i only hibernate for few days at a time (not considered as exploit in my books), when need to cure something etc. I'm pretty sure i can beat most of people here in leaderboards by playing normal game, but it takes way too much of real life time. I'm all around player, and probably on of the best in the game... learned from lmg, kraelman etc.... to be the best, you have to learn from the best. have no problems surviving on one map living only outdoors, for 50 days or so... so i'm kind of if you play sport games like fifa, pes or nba... i'm almost like 99 rated player. No i'm not cocky, just being straight forward... no bs... call me the truth lol

by the way, folks on top of the leaderboard dont rub me off the wrong way... i dont really care, i was #1, done it, so its all history. I dont even give a damn for the player who used fps bug or whatever to survive those ridiculous 10000 days or whatever the record is.... props to him for finding the bug and reporting it.

How can you survive 27 days with only 9kgs of meat? For sure you are exploiting the health? When do you eat just before sleep?

1. have enough water and drink it.... then......

2. sleep 12 hour cycle

3. drink water.

4. repeat steps 2 and 3, until your condition reaches ~12%.

5. Eat venison and drink water.

6. sleep 12 hours to regenerate to 100%.

7. repeat steps again... until you reach whatever is your goal.