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36 minutes ago, EternityTide said:

@TROY The thing is that TLD is not accomodating enough for it to become a "weapon collecting simulator". Ammunition is scarce, and the limit of weight-carrying capacity means that doing a crazy Ivan is highly inadvisable. 
In CQC with a bear, a revolver would be an effective alternative to the rifle, as it is quicker to equip and fires faster (the fire rate of a rifle means that if you miss the first shot, by the time you've chambered the next round, the bear will have closed the distance and you will be mauled within an inch of your life). The drawback would be its lower accuracy and perhaps a lower reliability. 
The addition of the bow was to create a renewable alternative to the rifle. The purpose of a handgun is to create a less efficient hunting tool, but a more effective self defence tool.
A handgun is not "a green prybar" or any other redundant variant of a tool, but actually fulfils a role in the game.

To balance the game, perhaps finding either a handgun or a rifle decreases your chances of finding the other. The bow is always craftable, so either way, you have an alternative ranged weapon.

I'm not here to argue the merits or downfalls of a handgun vs. a rifle. The fact is, a handgun being added to the game has been announced in the roadmap, so, as i said before, making a case FOR it is really a moot point. I am personally not in favor of it, both because of the scarcity of handguns in Canada and because overall it is a less effective tool for the job. The only advantage of a handgun is portability and concealment. What it makes up for in speed,  it gives up ten fold in range, accuracy and power.  The Canadian Rangers are not issued handguns, most citizens don't own them, and maybe I've missed something in the game, but I have yet to see an RCMP outpost or patrol car, and Ive never found a corpse with a badge. 

All that being said, I again refer you to the current published Roadmap for the game. A handgun has already been announced for introduction so arguing that one should be included is like arguing that we need a survival bow.

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I think this game needs pistols, or at least a light alternative to the hunting rifle. Any agreement?

I'm not too fussed, myself, as long as the overall number of firearms is reduced - by about half. This is quite important, I think. Variety is always nice, and it'd be interesting to be able to m

How about a compound bow and some nice aluminum or carbon fiber arrows? As far as the 303 rifle we have now definitely need some tweaks I mean you kill stuff from 10 yards with it rifle of that c

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Just wanted to stop by and leave a reminder about the Sandbox Roadmap--always keep in mind it's a "living list," and doesn't guarantee that a specific item will be added to the game. And the team might be, and likely is, working on things that aren't even listed there. That being said, it's a good guide when looking into the future, so we're always up to hearing feedback on things that are found there already. Thanks!:coffee:

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On 2015-12-07 at 10:21 AM, Mpat120 said:

I could go with a Spear and Slingshot.

I really dont see everyone running from a disaster and leaving many guns or very much ammo behind for you to find other than the rare prepper cash. Reloading ammo is a precise business, without proper equipment it may not fire at all or it may blow up in your face.

I can however see crafting a musket or blunderbuss type weapon as they dont require such tight tolerances.

I believe the roadmap describes gun smithing. I would see this as reloading cartridges since it is more realistic to find such equipment. It should be rare and only found in one location (perhaps random) I think we should find gun powder; you can't reasonably create your own propellant (AKA gun powder). It would be more reasonable to be able to craft a crank winding cross-bow. A regular long bow has a limited effective range, let's say 30 to 50 meters whereas a crossbow effective range might be farther since it is so much more powerful. Here is a reference for the effective range of cross-bows.

http://www.bestcrossbowsource.com/how-far-can-you-shoot-a-crossbow/

http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/hunting/big-game/effective-killing-range-bow

Here is a video on DIYS crossbow design:

 

Here is another design showing compound design using coil springs. Coil springs might be in short supply; leaf springs from cars are easier to find but you still need to improvise pulleys. A winch or reloading lever is another nice touch but I don't see that on youtube.

 

 

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Just now, Patrick Carlson said:

Just wanted to stop by and leave a reminder about the Sandbox Roadmap--always keep in mind it's a "living list," and doesn't guarantee that a specific item will be added to the game. And the team might be, and likely is, working on things that aren't even listed there. That being said, it's a good guide when looking into the future, so we're always up to hearing feedback on things that are found there already. Thanks!:coffee:

Well, it appears that I have, in a very polite and diplomatic way just been sat the **** down SIR! :)  In light of this, I say LET THE FISTICUFFS ABOUT HANDGUNS BEGIN!!!!  Wheres my hockey stick?! 

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5 hours ago, TROY said:

You sir, have clearly never cut a tree in the winter time. And you clearly know very little about the biology of tree's and plants. I don't mean to be insulting in any way, but you are, quite frankly, talking out your ass. The reason there are not Trees in Antarctica has less to do with temperatures than isolation (no seeds can get there naturally and implantation is forbidden). It is also because there is not any soil on the surface for them to grow in. Trees DO NOT freeze solid in the winter, unless they are very small, and you would NOT have a better chance of falling one with a bat than an ax. Winter was historically the favored season for logging, and still is, but for different reasons

I know enough about plants for that matter.

Really, its about isolation in Antarctica ? Any actual proof available... or are you just talking out of your ass ? Also Antarctica is not all snow and ice, from same category of claims.

Trees do not freeze solid under normal conditions, but when temperatures fluctuate greatly, outside of normal parameters, then trees, as any organism will have trouble adapting. And it has been hinted that weather conditions following Event are unusual, more extreme than normal.

Winter has been used for logging because during other seasons people were busy with other things, that you cant do during winter, not because its the most favorable for such activities.

Also, any1 who claims that this or that discussion is pointless, is a moron. Truth is born in argument. That how you refine ideas, by discussing them.

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1 hour ago, Dirmagnos said:

Really, its about isolation in Antarctica ? Any actual proof available... or are you just talking out of your ass ? Also Antarctica is not all snow and ice, from same category of claims.

Trees do not freeze solid under normal conditions, but when temperatures fluctuate greatly, outside of normal parameters, then trees, as any organism will have trouble adapting. And it has been hinted that weather conditions following Event are unusual, more extreme than normal.

Winter has been used for logging because during other seasons people were busy with other things, that you cant do during winter, not because its the most favorable for such activities.

1. Measures must be taken to minimize harmful interference with wildlife and control the introduction of non-native species - animal or plant. To the point of not taking soil or growing compost to Antarctica as it may contain plant seeds, fungal spores or adults, eggs or larvae of any number of soil-dwelling invertebrates.

2. The Antarctic Peninsula region - which has a warmer and wetter climate, with above-freezing temperatures common in the summer months.

3.  More than 98 percent of Antarctica is covered with ice, this contains about 70 percent of the world's fresh water. The thick ice cover...mean thickness of ice cover 1829 METERS   

These facts are all available and are hereby attributed to http://www.coolantarctica.com/ 

 

 

 Paul Schaberg, a research plant physiologist with the USDA Forest Service’s Aiken Forestry Sciences Laboratory in Burlington, Vermont, has led many investigations of cold tolerance in trees, particularly in the foliage of montane spruce and fir in New England.

Schaberg’s work suggests three basic ways in which living tree cells prevent freezing. One is to change their membranes during cold acclimation so that the membranes become more pliable; this allows water to migrate out of the cells and into the spaces between the cells. The relocated water exerts pressure against the cell walls, but this pressure is offset as cells shrink and occupy less space.

The second way a tree staves off freezing is to sweeten the fluids within the living cells. Come autumn, a tree converts starch to sugars, which act as something of an antifreeze. The cellular fluid within the living cells becomes concentrated with these natural sugars, which lowers the freezing point inside the cells, while the sugar-free water between the cells is allowed to freeze. Because the cell membranes are more pliable in winter, they’re squeezed but not punctured by the expanding ice crystals.

The third coping mechanism is altogether different. It involves what Schaberg describes as a “glass phase,” where the liquid cell contents become so viscous that they appear to be solid, a kind of “molecular suspended animation” that mimics the way silica remains liquid as it is supercooled into glass. This third mechanism is triggered by the progressive cellular dehydration that results from the first two mechanisms and allows the supercooled contents of the tree’s cells to avoid crystallizing.

All three cellular mechanisms are intended to keep living cells from freezing. That’s the key for the tree; don’t allow living cells to freeze.   http://northernwoodlands.org/ 

 

Winter was the preferred logging season for cutting trees because of ease of movement over snow and over frozen lakes and rivers.  The woods teamed with lumber camps during the winter months. First using axes, .....

www.mainememory.net

 

 @Dirmagnos   Any other questions,  "moron"?

 

***EDIT***  I'm sorry, it was not my original intention to be mean, and I would like to state for the record, that Dirmangos has made several very good, and very factual points in this thread.  I just happened to take issue with a few which were not correct. My apologies for being snarky.

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Ok slow it down folks, let's get back to the topic of weapons, and not comparative environmental sciences.

So, where were we, The last posts I read were on pistols or crossbows. 

When it comes to the revolver already in the roadmap (which may or may not come true), I believe it is intended more for the story play than sandbox. The revolver's small size makes it perfect for killing NPCs, not so great for bears or wolves. (But that depends or caliber)

As for a crossbow, I don't know how common these things are in Canada. If they are quite common then finding one may not be out of the question, but I do feel it would be redundant to the current bow. Unless Hinterland would like to develop a deep complex system of weapon mechanics and stats, having multiple weapons of the same class (i.e. more than one rifle type) would not serve much point, other than aesthetic.

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Just as a reminder: Please try to remain respectful and non-insulting, even if you completely disagree with someone. Calling each other "moron" directly or indirectly (no matter whether you use quotation marks or not) doesn't lead anywhere except to a general tone that many other forum users don't find enjoyable at all. 

I've marked this thread for supervision, so everyone please stay civil or we'll need to think about further actions.

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13 hours ago, miah999 said:

As for a crossbow, I don't know how common these things are in Canada. If they are quite common then finding one may not be out of the question, but I do feel it would be redundant to the current bow. Unless Hinterland would like to develop a deep complex system of weapon mechanics and stats, having multiple weapons of the same class (i.e. more than one rifle type) would not serve much point, other than aesthetic.

Hypothetically speaking, if a crossbow were to be added, it would be vastly superior to the bow. I am basing what I'm about to say on a relatively modern sporting crossbow - I stand firmly against the idea of a crafted crossbow, these things are complicated if one does not know what they're doing (trust me, I tried. Blood was shed.) The reason the crossbow quickly chased the bow off of Europe's battlefields in the middle ages is it's simplicity of use - it takes much, much less effort and time to train a crossbowman than it does to train a bowman. Then there's the increased stopping power and the fact that the shorter, thicker bolts tumble inside wounds and cause much more tissue damage, not to mention it's armor-piercing capabilities which led the Pope to outlaw it's use against Christians since it made knights sort-of obsolete in his eyes, an order which was heard, understood and then largely ignored. Also, bows can more easily be fired out of embrasured and in a crouching position from cover, making them very valuable both offensively and defensively in siege warfare, which was almost all warfare until WW2.

The only upsides of a bow against the crossbow were the lower price due to easier manufacture, higher volume of fire and the ability to use (highly overrated) flaming arrows. Thus, when the crossbow came along, it became largely a hunting weapon and, in military use, a morale breaker (imagine 2000 flaming arrows heading your way and tell me you won't run away :D ). The often-quotes English chronicles that said that an arrow from a longbow could pierce plate armor are largely fabricated - for it to do so, it would have to hit in a perfect 90° angle at very short range, and when you're a bowman and someone wearing plate armor is in 'short range' to you, you have lost anyway.

Long story short: The crossbow is superior to the bow in almost every aspect, and in all aspects important to the game, unless we get to march in formation with other survivors (which, I must say, would become my new guilty pleasure)

So, how do we balance this?

For a modern crossbow, specialised bolts are used that can't be easily manufactured by hand. It's possible, but the cost may outweigh the benefits. Therefore, ammo could be really scarce. Then there's the issue of maintenance, since everything modern has a lot of moving parts, and moving parts tend to break - a Glock 19 is a better weapon than a rock, but the rock will last way longer. If we really want the bow and crossbow to be equal, sporting bolts could be the only available ammo, which would be around equal in piercing-power to a simple arrow.

I'll try digging up some literature on the topic next time I'm on Gutenberg, but I have exams coming up so don't rely on me.

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15 hours ago, TROY said:

1. Measures must be taken to minimize harmful interference with wildlife and control the introduction of non-native species - animal or plant. To the point of not taking soil or growing compost to Antarctica as it may contain plant seeds, fungal spores or adults, eggs or larvae of any number of soil-dwelling invertebrates.

2. The Antarctic Peninsula region - which has a warmer and wetter climate, with above-freezing temperatures common in the summer months.

3.  More than 98 percent of Antarctica is covered with ice, this contains about 70 percent of the world's fresh water. The thick ice cover...mean thickness of ice cover 1829 METERS   These facts are all available and are hereby attributed to http://www.coolantarctica.com/ 

You do understand that humans are not the only ones who can carry seeds over to different areas ? Birds, currents, animals, winds has been doing that long be4 rise of humanity. All over the world across oceans.

Also, approximately 0.4% of Antarctica is ice free. Considering size of the continent its a bit over half a million square kilometers. Its almost the size of a friggin France.

Quote

Paul Schaberg, a research plant physiologist with the USDA Forest Service’s Aiken Forestry Sciences Laboratory in Burlington, Vermont, has led many investigations of cold tolerance in trees, particularly in the foliage of montane spruce and fir in New England.

Schaberg’s work suggests three basic ways in which living tree cells prevent freezing. One is to change their membranes during cold acclimation so that the membranes become more pliable; this allows water to migrate out of the cells and into the spaces between the cells. The relocated water exerts pressure against the cell walls, but this pressure is offset as cells shrink and occupy less space.

The second way a tree staves off freezing is to sweeten the fluids within the living cells. Come autumn, a tree converts starch to sugars, which act as something of an antifreeze. The cellular fluid within the living cells becomes concentrated with these natural sugars, which lowers the freezing point inside the cells, while the sugar-free water between the cells is allowed to freeze. Because the cell membranes are more pliable in winter, they’re squeezed but not punctured by the expanding ice crystals.

The third coping mechanism is altogether different. It involves what Schaberg describes as a “glass phase,” where the liquid cell contents become so viscous that they appear to be solid, a kind of “molecular suspended animation” that mimics the way silica remains liquid as it is supercooled into glass. This third mechanism is triggered by the progressive cellular dehydration that results from the first two mechanisms and allows the supercooled contents of the tree’s cells to avoid crystallizing.

All three cellular mechanisms are intended to keep living cells from freezing. That’s the key for the tree; don’t allow living cells to freeze.   http://northernwoodlands.org/ 

True. Except that majority of trees have trouble of surviving temperatures below -40C. All that fancy antifreeze will get them only so far. Plus, as any living organism, trees are unable to instadapt to extreme condition fluctuations. It takes time, something that they didnt have in tLD.

Quote

Winter was the preferred logging season for cutting trees because of ease of movement over snow and over frozen lakes and rivers.  The woods teamed with lumber camps during the winter months. First using axes, .....

www.mainememory.net

 

 @Dirmagnos   Any other questions,  "moron"?

 

***EDIT***  I'm sorry, it was not my original intention to be mean, and I would like to state for the record, that Dirmangos has made several very good, and very factual points in this thread.  I just happened to take issue with a few which were not correct. My apologies for being snarky.

huh !

"Winter has long been king for the simple reason that, historically, that’s when people had time for logging. A century ago, farmers and hired hands headed for the woods to make some extra money in the off-season."

Taken from your own sources.

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@Wastelander I think you misunderstand why the crossbow would be redundant in the current game. Yes crossbows are better then bows in real life, but the game currently doesn't model the stats to make any noticeable difference between the two.

So unless Hinterland wants to overhaul the general systems underneath weapon functions it just won't be worth it to add a crossbow, different rifles, or other ranged weapons. Right now from what I know about how bullets are modeled in TLD, I'm not sure the revolver will be functionally different from the current rifle. Hinterland was never planing to make Medal of Duty, so they just didn't build in the systems needed to model a variety of different weapons.

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@Dirmagnos    I'm done arguing about it dude. You were spouting nonsense, and I tried to simply give you the correct facts. Yes, I was rude about it, I admit, and I've apologized.  Its clear that you're going to cling to your own beliefs, against scientific and historical facts, and thats your choice. 

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A "modern" crossbow of about 120lbs is basically the equal of a 45-lb bow, due to the difference in power-stroke length.

The power-stroke is the length the string (and bent limbs of the bow) travels from "fully drawn" to "at rest", which is usually a little less than the length of the projectile. The longer the power-stroke, the more energy is transferred to the projectile, and (generally) the faster the projectile.

Bows usually have a projectiles of around 30 inches. Crossbows are shorter, usually around 20 inches. Bows are "more effective" than crossbows despite being "weaker" because they are capable of transferring greater amounts of force into the projectile.

http://www.drawloc.com/content/crossbow-vs-compound-bow

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Hello everyone, continued off-topic posts will simply result in this thread being locked. If you would like to carry on with your (civil discussion), I'd ask that you either start a new thread on the topic or take it to private message. Thank you!

With that in mind--Weapons! :knife::hatchet:

Happy Sunday and carry on!

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The main benefit I can see for adding a crossbow is one of my own shortcomings. A crossbow would be easier to aim (just sight right down the middle) than the bow, with which after hundreds of practice shots I still cannot seem to hit anything.

There was a throwaway reference earlier to different models for the same tool, different skins for the knife and stuff. Though this would add literally nothing to the gameplay, I think that would be a fun addition from a purely cosmetic angle. finding a more military looking knife, vs a wood-handled "standard" knife, vs a texas toothpick. Like I said, no changes to the gameplay, but the variety in visuals could be neat.

But anyway. I like the idea of finding a crossbow.

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It would be possible to find a crossbow. They are definitely sold for hunting purposes. It's just guns (rifles and shotguns) and bows tend to be more popular in my limited experience :)

And I'm still against handguns being added to the game for the record! :side-eye:

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  • 4 years later...
6 hours ago, AXVenomPRO said:

 

 

I totally agree ... We need a lot of new weapons, especially a SHOTGUN in addition to improving this .303 rifle it is very bad to hit from a distance!

hey player, just wanted to point out you are commenting on a thread that hasn't seen any activity on it since the last post was made back in August of 2016... 💤 💤 💤
you might wanna start a new thread if this issue is that important to you.  

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I’d want a group of spears to be added.  Like a sharp stick, an improvised spear, a forged spear, and a flint nap spear.  Same goes for knives and arrowheads.  Arrows made with those arrowheads should be new items as well.  Improvised stuff should be really easy but deal way less damage.  Forged gear should be almost as good as the real thing.  Maybe add a black smithing skill to have forged stuff get better over time.

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