More weapons

[Pillock]

I'm not too fussed, myself, as long as the overall number of firearms is reduced - by about half. This is quite important, I think.

Variety is always nice, and it'd be interesting to be able to make simple spears or clubs (as well as use the existing tools more proactively against wildlife). But frankly, I think there are much more pressing things for the developers to be worrying about before they even think about expanding on the weapons roster.

[terryt3535]

If the PC can forge an improvised knife, they ought to be able to make a spear, even if it's just a knife at the end of a harvested rifle stock.

There ought to be a skill book to read before you can use the forge.

Add a stock to the bow (crossbow) so you can fire it while crouching and don't have to worry about it releasing an arrow when your fingers get tired. Extra weight and slower to load should make up for it being a great stealth weapon.

[Wastelander]

On 25.7.2016 at 2:36 AM, terryt3535 said:

If the PC can forge an improvised knife, they ought to be able to make a spear, even if it's just a knife at the end of a harvested rifle stock.

 

Spears can be even simpler than that - simply take a relatively straight, long stick, sharpen it and harden the tip over a fire. This has worked for around 50.000 years.

On 25.7.2016 at 2:36 AM, terryt3535 said:

There ought to be a skill book to read before you can use the forge.

 

Or several, actually. That's really hard stuff.

On 25.7.2016 at 2:36 AM, terryt3535 said:

Add a stock to the bow (crossbow) so you can fire it while crouching and don't have to worry about it releasing an arrow when your fingers get tired. Extra weight and slower to load should make up for it being a great stealth weapon.

Crossbows don't work this way, sorry. There's a good reason why the crossbow appeared several millenia after the bow - the trigger mechanism.

[miah999]

35 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

Spears can be even simpler than that - simply take a relatively straight, long stick, sharpen it and harden the tip over a fire. This has worked for around 50.000 years.

Simple spears can be pretty useful and it wouldn't hurt to have a walking stick as well.

Also a "modern" makeshift spear can be even easier to make (no fire or whittling), kitchen knife + broom handle + duct tape = spear. It won't last long, and probably won't stop a bear, but might keep a wolf at bay. There are ways to improve on this concept that can make it more durable. They are throw-able, but in my experience most folks suck at spear chucking without much practice, or an atlatl.

Also duct tape would be nice in general, has a lot of uses even clothing repair.

[Wastelander]

2 hours ago, miah999 said:

Also duct tape would be nice in general, has a lot of uses even clothing repair.

This, although it should be reasonably rare to prevent overuse since it would make a lot of things very easy.

[terryt3535]

On 7/26/2016 at 11:12 PM, Wastelander said:

Spears can be even simpler than that - simply take a relatively straight, long stick, sharpen it and harden the tip over a fire. This has worked for around 50.000 years.

Or several, actually. That's really hard stuff.

Crossbows don't work this way, sorry. There's a good reason why the crossbow appeared several millenia after the bow - the trigger mechanism.

Crossbows don't work what way?

[Wastelander]

12 hours ago, terryt3535 said:

Crossbows don't work what way?

I read your post as in merely slapping a bow on a stock. Seems you're aware of the necessary trigger though so I think I've misread that, sorry. Still, that takes some skills to make - skills people don't necessarily have.

[danicusrex]

+1 for a spear. 400,000 years of humanity can't be wrong.

 

[miah999]

38 minutes ago, danicusrex said:

+1 for a spear. 400,000 years of humanity can't be wrong.

 

Then the question becomes what kind of spear we'd like. A large neanderthal style thrusting spear, or the homo sapiens' bone tipped throwing spear, made an even better range weapon with the use of an atlatl, or both kinds of spears.

[danicusrex]

1 hour ago, miah999 said:

Then the question becomes what kind of spear we'd like. A large neanderthal style thrusting spear, or the homo sapiens' bone tipped throwing spear, made an even better range weapon with the use of an atlatl, or both kinds of spears.

I'm always a fan of more diversity in tools, but in my head I pictured a large thrusting spear. A defensive weapon, as opposed to something to aid in a hunt. (although the AI seems to make deer charge at me all the time, so I suppose it'd work there too)

[cekivi]

7 hours ago, danicusrex said:

I'm always a fan of more diversity in tools, but in my head I pictured a large thrusting spear. A defensive weapon, as opposed to something to aid in a hunt. (although the AI seems to make deer charge at me all the time, so I suppose it'd work there too)

Ditto. Unless you're a secret Olympian I don't think many modern people would have the speed, strength or accuracy to make throwing spears viable. However, everyone can improvise something to thrust at a wolf to try and ward it off

Not a fan of the crossbow. Making the trigger mechanism (or anything requiring precise mechanisms) would still be very difficult. Especially with no prior experience, knowledge or practice. Just being able to make a survival bow is already a bit of a stretch.

[miah999]

7 minutes ago, cekivi said:

Ditto. Unless you're a secret Olympian I don't think many modern people would have the speed, strength or accuracy to make throwing spears viable. However, everyone can improvise something to thrust at a wolf to try and ward it off

Not a fan of the crossbow. Making the trigger mechanism (or anything requiring precise mechanisms) would still be very difficult. Especially with no prior experience, knowledge or practice. Just being able to make a survival bow is already a bit of a stretch.

Actually throwing a spear with an atlatl is pretty easy, anyone can learn how, and do it fairly well. I have at least one survival guide that includes instructions for one.

Note I'm a overweight, average strength, person, so if I can do it most folks should be able to.

As for the crossbow, I wouldn't mind finding one, but I'd never trust myself to build one.

Edited July 29, 2016 by miah999

[Boston123]

1 hour ago, miah999 said:

Actually throwing a spear with an atlatl is pretty easy, anyone can learn how, and do it fairly well. I have at least one survival guide that includes instructions for one.

Note I'm a overweight, average strength, person, so if I can do it most folks should be able to.

As for the crossbow, I wouldn't mind finding one, but I'd never trust myself to build one.

Atlatls are as complicated, if not more, than bows, actually. Bows are simpler, and are more effective for both the terrain and the animals we are going to hunt.

There are reasons, after all, why the atlatl fell out of favor around the end of the last Ice Age. 

Edited July 29, 2016 by Boston123

[miah999]

3 hours ago, Boston123 said:

Atlatls are as complicated, if not more, than bows, actually. Bows are simpler, and are more effective for both the terrain and the animals we are going to hunt.

There are reasons, after all, why the atlatl fell out of favor around the end of the last Ice Age. 

No they're not more complicated, they're a stick with a notch at the end, you can make one in 15 minutes.

The atlatl fell out of favor because the bow has far greater range, power, and accuracy. 

More complex tools do not proceed less complex tools. 

[cekivi]

4 minutes ago, miah999 said:

More complex tools do not proceed less complex tools. 

True. Unless we forget how to make them after a civilization falls.

[miah999]

Just now, cekivi said:

True. Unless we forget how to make them after a civilization falls.

Quite right, that's why I own so many books, on everything from coal gasification, to gun smiting.  You can never be too careful.

[Boston123]

7 hours ago, miah999 said:

No they're not more complicated, they're a stick with a notch at the end, you can make one in 15 minutes.

The atlatl fell out of favor because the bow has far greater range, power, and accuracy. 

More complex tools do not proceed less complex tools. 

Clarification: they are complex in different fashions.

With atlatls, both the dart and the throwing arm have to have high degrees of flexibility. Too little, and the lever is not effective

With a bow, just the bowstave has to flex. Of course, having arrows spined to the bowstave is nice, but not truly necessary. I can fire a range of arrows from my bow, and they will all be relatively accurate. Long, short, flexible, stiff, not too much difference. The bow does most of the work.

Plus, atlatls are only really effective on megafauna, and/or over open terrain. In close-in, forested terrain, and on smaller animals, the bow will be more effective. Less body movement.

I would know. I have made, and used, both. I vastly prefer the bow. It is easier to carry, easier to make ammunition for, and easier to use. I was not impressed with atlatl darts made from phragmite shafts. I was very impressed with arrowshafts made from phragmite cane, to the point where it is my preferred material to date.

My survival guide has a section on primitive weapons. It completely ignores the atlatl, and focuses on the bow. 

But, to each their own, I suppose.

[miah999]

41 minutes ago, Boston123 said:

Clarification: they are complex in different fashions.

With atlatls, both the dart and the throwing arm have to have high degrees of flexibility. Too little, and the lever is not effective

With a bow, just the bowstave has to flex. Of course, having arrows spined to the bowstave is nice, but not truly necessary. I can fire a range of arrows from my bow, and they will all be relatively accurate. Long, short, flexible, stiff, not too much difference. The bow does most of the work.

Plus, atlatls are only really effective on megafauna, and/or over open terrain. In close-in, forested terrain, and on smaller animals, the bow will be more effective. Less body movement.

I would know. I have made, and used, both. I vastly prefer the bow. It is easier to carry, easier to make ammunition for, and easier to use. I was not impressed with atlatl darts made from phragmite shafts. I was very impressed with arrowshafts made from phragmite cane, to the point where it is my preferred material to date.

My survival guide has a section on primitive weapons. It completely ignores the atlatl, and focuses on the bow. 

But, to each their own, I suppose.

No one is saying the atlatl is better than the bow, we we're discussing whether it was better than a thrusting spear. Your making an argument where none was necessary.

I too have made simple bows, atlatls, thrusting spears, even swords. The question is what knowledge the game character should have, not what knowledge we have.

[Boston123]

8 hours ago, miah999 said:

No one is saying the atlatl is better than the bow, we we're discussing whether it was better than a thrusting spear. Your making an argument where none was necessary.

I too have made simple bows, atlatls, thrusting spears, even swords. The question is what knowledge the game character should have, not what knowledge we have.

In that case: thrusting spear all the way, hands down. No questions asked

[TROY]

On 12/7/2015 at 11:44 AM, Nexus_V said:

 

 

[TROY]

On 1/25/2016 at 9:46 AM, Dirmagnos said:

There is a reason why there is no trees in Antarctica and one of those is extremely cold weather. With constant temperatures dropping pretty much every night below -40 in game, they will freeze thru in matter of days. There is no circulation of nutrients under those conditions.

Even if winter were to end, most of the forest would end up dead.

Youd have greater chance to fall a tree if you go at it with a big bat, instead of an axe. While they are solid, they are also fragile and you may have better chance at breaking it, rather than cutting it down.

You sir, have clearly never cut a tree in the winter time. And you clearly know very little about the biology of tree's and plants. I don't mean to be insulting in any way, but you are, quite frankly, talking out your ass. The reason there are not Trees in Antarctica has less to do with temperatures than isolation (no seeds can get there naturally and implantation is forbidden). It is also because there is not any soil on the surface for them to grow in. Trees DO NOT freeze solid in the winter, unless they are very small, and you would NOT have a better chance of falling one with a bat than an ax. Winter was historically the favored season for logging, and still is, but for different reasons.

Edited July 30, 2016 by TROY

[TROY]

It boggles my mind how many people have chimed in on this, and not one person has bothered mentioning that a handgun is already in the works, as well as reloading of ammo, AND an Ax.  So, the handgun discussion is all pointless, unless you are totally against it and trying to persuade Hinterland to drop it. (Thats MY vote, if you're wondering) And all the discussion about more or less ammo is pointless, because hopefully soon we'll be able to reload it. The Ax, I hope will simply be a much faster way to gather firewood, or used a weapon against wolves BEFORE you're on your back. I can't see how cutting down trees adds anything useful to the game.  I really feel like the best thing to come out of this whole post is the Spear. And the idea's of being able to engage a wolf AND bear with a weapon rather than just laying on our backs and being mauled. Swinging a hatchet or an empty rifle, or kicking, or even just a big stick would be more than enough deterrent to keep yourself from being on your back with teeth in your face. The ideas about padding on sleeves, and shields are nifty, if the wolves were dogs. Wolves go for legs and throats. Its their instinct, honed from thousands of years of hunting prey larger than themselves. They arent going to clamp down on your arm and stick with it doing no damage while you poke at them with a knife. If there were two or more involved in the attack, one may do that, to immobilize you while another goes for your throat....  

To whomever it was that suggested a carbine be added but that it should have penalties to aiming for its lighter weight and shorter barrel. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!  The whole point of a gun being shorter and lighter is to make it easier to handle and aim. 

I'd love to see not a scoped rifle, but just a scope, that could be added to the rifle, but the fact is, it would be game breaking if we could hunt game from 500 meters away or more (and yes, that ole enfield is good for it.) and the reality is that the average person lacks the skill to properly mount and sight in a scope, not to mention it would take dozens of rounds to do so. I think what would be nice though is a pair of compact binoculars, that would increase magnification, maybe 2 or 3 times more than what we currently get by "sighting" down the rifle.  

I would really really hate to see this game become a weapon collecting simulator. The gun is a tool used for a specific purpose, just like the knife, and hatchet and prybar. Honestly, what does it add to the game to have multiple versions of that tool? Do we need multiple ways to cut up shelves into scrap metal? (PLEASE Hinterland, give us cutting torches and reciprocating saws!) BWAHAHAAHAA!   Would it add flavor or immersion to the game if there were multiple models for the knife? No. Would it keep anyone engaged longer if there were red prybars and green prybars? If so, you're playing the wrong game for the wrong reasons.  

[EternityTide]

@TROY The thing is that TLD is not accomodating enough for it to become a "weapon collecting simulator". Ammunition is scarce, and the limit of weight-carrying capacity means that doing a crazy Ivan is highly inadvisable. 
In CQC with a bear, a revolver would be an effective alternative to the rifle, as it is quicker to equip and fires faster (the fire rate of a rifle means that if you miss the first shot, by the time you've chambered the next round, the bear will have closed the distance and you will be mauled within an inch of your life). The drawback would be its lower accuracy and perhaps a lower reliability. 
The addition of the bow was to create a renewable alternative to the rifle. The purpose of a handgun is to create a less efficient hunting tool, but a more effective self defence tool.
A handgun is not "a green prybar" or any other redundant variant of a tool, but actually fulfils a role in the game.

To balance the game, perhaps finding either a handgun or a rifle decreases your chances of finding the other. The bow is always craftable, so either way, you have an alternative ranged weapon.

[SteveP]

On 2016-07-28 at 4:44 AM, Wastelander said:

I read your post as in merely slapping a bow on a stock. Seems you're aware of the necessary trigger though so I think I've misread that, sorry. Still, that takes some skills to make - skills people don't necessarily have.

why make assumptions about the helplessness of our survivor? Why insist that many of these easy things are hard? They are not that hard if you just have the courage and initiative to try and to experiment. If improvising things like weapons, I would favor a kind of experimental mode where certain attempts don't work but if you keep on trying, you can find the right combination or approach. Unfortunately,the limited inventory of items, makes improvisation difficult. Perhaps add the capability to make custom shapes and parts. When making twitch up snares, for example, it takes a bit of thinking to get the trigger right.

I'm not looking for new weapons per se but adding improvisation to the game would be a good goal. Of course, how is it to be done? This is where we have to put our collective imaginations to work.

[SteveP]

Isn't there a poll for weapons? What are we missing? Time for a new poll?