Do we really need the forge to craft arrowheads now?

[bethany]

Have been playing this game for almost a year now...

There is an existing thread on this, so I'll be merging your post there. The forge is an addition we are actively collecting feedback for as we move forward, so it'll be helpful to have everything all in one place.

[Hylander]

I really enjoy the new forge mechanics for arrowheads. As a game element, it makes me think harder about the sequence of things, and affects which area I might decide to start in. The bow is a super-important item in my game, so getting it early is a good thing.

[cekivi]

I haven't yet found a forge but I had previously made arrow heads on the workbench (prior to the latest update). What was wrong with that mechanic?

On that subject, you can make an arrow tip just by sharpening the wooden tip with your hunting knife or fire hardening it. Metal arrow tips are just to do more damage to to your prey so it will bleed out faster. Which unfortunately is a non issue since only head shots count

[SteveP]

I just had the opportunity to try out the forge! I was a bit disappointed there were only three craftable items, arrow tip, knife and axe. Not sure why those will be necessary with a super abundance of metal to repair the store-bought ones.

I didn't have enough pieces of coal at first so I had to make a trip back to the spot I cached all I'd found in the East Mine transition. There is also a West Mine so presumably there's a lot more coal there and perhaps a way to another map.

Forging tips:

[spoil]You'll need at least 3 pieces of coal to get the forge hot enough provided that you get the fire to it's maximum temperature using wood (80C). Get it really good and hot before starting to add the coal. I would also be sure to have at least a cord of fir hardwood on hand too because coal is a finite resource so best to make a lot of arrow heads at once which means keeping the fire going for a long time and bringing in a good supply of metal to craft with. You can extend the life of the forge fire using wood but it won't get any hotter, even if you add sticks. This is all assuming you are going for a really long run and have to worry about lost arrows/arrow heads.[/spoil]

Feathers seem to be in short supply on DP although I have not yet explored past the Hibernia plant. I wonder if there is an alternative way to do fletching such as duct tape. For some arrows with heavy points, you don't even need fletching at all if you shoot only 10-20 meters. Paper is abundant and would work almost as well as feathers so that's another alternative. Of course, not using feathers should make the arrows less accurate however at the range I tend to use the bow, it won't matter. If one were to use newsprint, there could be a much higher chance of needing to repair the fletching frequently such as after each shot. Leather, glue stiffened paper or cloth, pine needles: all have been used to make passable fletching.

Alternative arrow fletching materials

I hope there are other items we can make with the forge coming soon (next month?) Any teasers?? I hope there is support for under ice net fishing. All those big nets seem to be going unused. Planks also seem to have an intended purpose aside from a source of harvestable reclaimed wood. Can't pick them up; I thought they might be useful for crossing weak ice or spanning a gap to gain access to another part of the map. Maybe they could be used for building or repairing a temporary shelter or even an ice hut.

I noticed that the interior of the ship where the forge is located is "open" so on Voyageur and Stalker, one might have to worry about wolves coming in especially if you are grabbing a couple hours of sleep after forging for a long time.

Also can't we please make sled runners in the forge?? It would be so handy to move heavy loads around on the ice. Also it would be nice to have an auger or ice pick for making fishing holes in the ice.

[MueckE]

So what the hell are you complaining about?

Just traveling across two maps and back is the issue. Took me about 50+ days in ML to be ready to go to CH, then 10 days to port stuff over, then moved to PV around day 80,.

That is not a problem of the game but of your playstyle. It takes 3 - 7 days for me to loot and harvest ML completly.

Yesterday i did the same with CH and i needed 5 days in DP. I went there with a hecksaw, hammer and a little bit of food and water. On the way, i collected the coal from Nr. 3 mine. The map is so small, i looted everything within one day and stored it in the trunk of the car at the lighthouse. I collected all coal from the small mine too and went to the ship. In the ship, you have enough materials for 40 arrowheads. You dont even need a hatched, just break down everything with your hand. Use all reclaimed wood to heat up the forge to 80C, boil some water, add 3 coal

and start crafting. I am now at day 27 and have looted completly ML, CH, DP with all saplings, all roses and so on.

(one lootpile is at the dam and one at the trailer in CH near the mine)

But you dont have to play like this. Most of the player just start a base right away and go exploring and go to places moe than once. I just do it like that because it is fun to travel so much and loot everythin in a short time

(because it is very dangerous) I mean, do you really want to hibernate all the time and dont have to go to other maps? Thats boring as hell ....

I will transport all stuff to farmstead and than stop playing till the next update or do some funny things with the new mechanics

[nicko]

I think crafting arrow heads should still be available on any work bench as long as you have tools.

If you can only craft them at the new map/forge you pretty much have stuffed up the fun game play of using a bow in other maps. Unless of course you can find some broken arrows. I have yet to find one!

[Jytton Lames]

I really enjoy the new forge mechanics for arrowheads. As a game element, it makes me think harder about the sequence of things, and affects which area I might decide to start in. The bow is a super-important item in my game, so getting it early is a good thing.

I agree, but with the caveat that there should be a few more broken arrows scattered around the other maps to help you along until you can make the trip to the forge. It'd be nice if some were sticking out of wolves you shoot with the rifle, if that's technically feasible, or perhaps beside the deer carcasses you find about (or aboot - tee hee) the place - free feathers too! I'm not saying there aren't extras in the update, haven't checked ML and PV yet but found none in CH anyway. Maybe some kind survivor could let me know? - 2 in dam and 1 arrowhead in - hunters cabin was it? - I recall.

I kind of regret putting the word "really" into the title of this thread, I just meant "do I understand this correctly?" but on reflection it sounds like "Oh Mummy do we REALLY have to go to the dentist again?"

Any kid would love going to the dentist if he or she had to fight off wolves and bears on the way, it's an adventure!!!

[haltux]

Just traveling across two maps and back is the issue. Took me about 50+ days in ML to be ready to go to CH, then 10 days to port stuff over, then moved to PV around day 80,.

That is not a problem of the game but of your playstyle. It takes 3 - 7 days for me to loot and harvest ML completly.

[...]

I just do it like that because it is fun to travel so much and loot everythin in a short time

(because it is very dangerous) I mean, do you really want to hibernate all the time and dont have to go to other maps? Thats boring as hell ....

To me the point of The Long Dark is finding the right balance between taking risk and starving. It is certainly not taking risk for fun. It is certainly not looting everything as fast as possible. "Hibernating", as you say, that is surviving as long as possible in a single spot with as few non-renewable resources, then decide when is the right time to move on to a new place, is much more original and interesting than just doing what you do in other video game (basically fighting and looting).

This is also more efficient, because at some point you run out of loot. If you have spent 40 days without leaving Mystery Lake, you are more likely to survive longer than if you loot and eat all maps in the same 40 days.

But I guess everyone has its own play style.

[haltux]

OK, I am not the first one but as it is an Alpha, I hope the more we are the more we will be heard.

This decision with arrowhead is a MASSIVE mistake.

I don't know about the adventure, but in the sandbox, The Long Dark is not and should not be a game where you have to do something or go somewhere. You should be allowed to choose your own playstyle. By restricting the use of bow only to the ones that have been to a unique single point in one of the maps, you change the spirit of the game.

Please please stop this madness. Just like many other players, I am still at mystery lake, and I will leave it at some point, when I want, or when I will have to. I don't want to be forced to take an insane amount of time and risk to go to some place because this is where you have to be if you want to get your reward. This is not the spirit. Not mentioning that I have built a bow and honestly it is extremely frustrating to not being allowed to use it.

And FYI, hunting with wooden arrow is perfectly doable. And was done by a large part of humanity during thousands of years.

[cekivi]

OK, I am not the first one but as it is an Alpha, I hope the more we are the more we will be heard.

This decision with arrowhead is a MASSIVE mistake.

...

Not mentioning that I have built a bow and honestly it is extremely frustrating to not being allowed to use it.

And FYI, hunting with wooden arrow is perfectly doable. And was done by a large part of humanity during thousands of years.

Ditto. This seems to be the consensus of this post as myself and many others have pointed out the exact same problems.

[MueckE]

I still dont get why it is inbalanced for you guys. If you start at DP you can make arrowheads on the first day without any problems. There are enough materials in the ship to make at least 20 arrowheads without any problems.

If you complain about traveling to DP, get the guarenteed arrow at hydro dam. There is a broken arrow and the dam is basicly in the middle of ML, CH and PV.

As long you can harvest a broken arrow and get the arrowhead back (and 2 feathers), this 1 arrow lasts forever and you basicly dont need more arrowheads.

You can use 1 arrow at least 3 times, meaning 3 bearkills or 90 - 100 days of bearmeat- After that you harvest the arrow and make a new one

Or maybe you think after over 100 days of hibernation that you could visit DP to make a few more?

[bethany]

FYI --

Our most recent hotfix added a small number of arrow and arrowhead spawns across the world. Full changelist here:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8230

[SteveP]

FYI -- Our most recent hotfix added a small number of arrow and arrowhead spawns across the world.

There are more arrows and arrowheads available across all maps. I don't find it a great inconvenience to travel to DP to get arrow heads however without a rifle, it can be quite difficult to cope with wolves. I think the number of wolves has been reduced. Arrows afford little protection from wolves; flares, torches and fires do well enough. It can be difficult to bring down a wolf with bow and arrow but it's nigh impossible without.

This is a strategy game, not an arcade game; I think it's fair to need to forge arrow heads and at least there are alternatives. As has been pointed out, we are still in development mode so some balancing changes were anticipated.

Steve

[Jytton Lames]

I really enjoy the new forge mechanics for arrowheads. As a game element, it makes me think harder about the sequence of things, and affects which area I might decide to start in. The bow is a super-important item in my game, so getting it early is a good thing.

I agree, but with the caveat that there should be a few more broken arrows scattered around the other maps to help you along until you can make the trip to the forge.

FYI -- Our most recent hotfix added a small number of arrow and arrowhead spawns across the world. Full changelist here: http://hinterlandforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8230

You listened! Woo hoo! Score one for my tiny corner of early access community wish fulfilment. Thanks Hinterland and thanks Bethany for posting it here. Now if you'll please excuse me, I have some obsessive searching to do...

[SteveP]

Don't forget to check Katie's Corner near the peak of the first mountain where the crows gather! Follow the crows. Don't try to climb the cliffs near the road; a recipe for sprained ankles and wrists! You might find bow and arrows there. Thank goodness I decided to investigate this spot on my new run today. Almost back to how things were before, lacking of course the good fur/leather clothing. :-)

[Foxen]

That's a nice place...but if being allready there one can even forge some Arrowheads

[Hylander]

There are more arrows and arrowheads available across all maps. I don't find it a great inconvenience to travel to DP to get arrow heads however without a rifle, it can be quite difficult to cope with wolves. I think the number of wolves has been reduced. Arrows afford little protection from wolves; flares, torches and fires do well enough. It can be difficult to bring down a wolf with bow and arrow but it's nigh impossible without.

I don't in general have much difficulty bringing down wolves with the bow - you just need to shoot them in the head. I certainly am not 100% successful, but I'm at least as successful with the bow as I am with the rifle.

As soon as I get the bow and some arrows, I immediately stop carrying the rifle, because its just too damn heavy...

[Warg]

Not quite what you were discussing... but on the same vein: why not bone arrowheads (with a gritty enough rock and a knife, a burned bone fragment can be shaped)

While at it, if you have a piece of metal (like a spoon), a hatchet to spare and a stone, you can cut it or repeatedly bend it until it breaks into shape and then sharpen it on the stone. You would need to resharpen the hatchet on the same stone and voila!

As for other crafting in-game:

- cord for bow from the winter coat waist line, cord from electrical wires, spear from about everything, sled from any 2 branches and a cord, box for carrying embers for the next fire, that zero-tech friction firestarter, cord for raising in the trees what you cannot carry, repairing a knife (sharpening) only needs a gritty stone for hundreds of times, same for hatchet (though possibly once in a while the handle breaks or gets loose and you need a branch and knife to make another), tree moss or leaves as tinder (once dried), sled or even shield against wolves from any sheet of metal and a bit of rope (Ok, that's a little RPG but still historical (look at the exterminated north-american indians - shield, lance, bow, tomahawk, knife was about all they needed before 16th century..)

I believe Hinterland should increase the survival options...and it would be reasonably easy: add items, add some 3d model and a short description, add possible actions and resource requirements.

[AncientWisp]

Premise: Arrowheads are now forged.

If this is a survival game, I can't see a forge being used, period. I could see crafting from bone or stone, but not at a forge.

Until the forge most of the crafting was sort of "follow your nose" because you could find a workbench without too much trouble. How is someone expected to figure out how to get arrowheads?

This is a livable change, but it seems way off topic.

[bethany]

Premise: Arrowheads are now forged....

Thanks for the feedback. We have a much larger thread that covers this discussion, so I'll be merging your topic there.

Additionally, though this won't specifically answer your concerns re: forging, you can now find spawns of arrows and arrowheads across all regions.

[SteveP]

If this is a survival game, I can't see a forge being used, period. I could see crafting from bone or stone, but not at a forge.

Forging metal tools is definitely an advanced survival technique; just take a look at some of the Pathfinder and other survival videos.

Coffee Can Forge

Making tongs and hooks

[bBvideo 560,340:zv0i1iqj]

[/bBvideo]

[Patrick Carlson]

Thanks for sharing this. I'm going to be checking out a lot more of his videos.

[Jytton Lames]

Yes, thanks SteveP, I love this kind of stuff even though (or because?) I live in a suburb and can't even make a shelf that won't fall down when I put my DVDs on it. I'd like to ask Patrick Carlson, does Hinterland plan to expand on the functionality of the forge?

One of my many suggestions would be to put an extra one in the barn in PV - originally for horseshoes or whatever. But mainly, since it's in the game now, I'd like to see it do more - such as making a griddle to allow cooking more meat at the same time or runners for a small sled which the player could drag for moving base. Lot's of possibilities besides arrowheads and the currently somewhat redundant makeshift knife/axe.

Though maybe the plans are related to story mode and therefore top secret. Raphael seems the Jedi version of Darth Molyneux when it comes to grandiose claims for the future. "We are making a good early access game. It will have story mode. These are not the inflated promises you were looking for." - waves hand, has beard.

[MueckE]

Yes, arrowheads are now crafted in the forge. Although you can find broken arrows elsewhere from which you can harvest old arrowheads to use.

And 13 hatchets?

My current run, i've looted all maps, didnt craft a hatchet or knife because:

But i "only" found 9 knifes this time