Scrap metal ridiculousness

[Scyzara]

Am I the only one who finds the amount of scrap metal available on the Desolation Point map more than just slightly ridiculous?

I've harvested all of this scrap metal on the DP map ALONE (most of it with a hacksaw). I actually even found about 25 more pieces but used them for repairs and forging two knifes, a hatchett and two arrowheads. And I bet I oversaw some pieces as well.

In other words, there are about 300 pieces of scrap metal available on this tiny map alone.

I'm actually even too disappointed to have a look at the amount of scrap metal available on the other maps. (At least for me) it has finally become obvious that the Devs don't care AT ALL about stretching mid-game into eternity. (Well, perpetuum mobile snares already aimed into this direction as well, but this here is really the nail of TLD's coffin for me).

Sorry for ranting, but I'm really damn disappointed atm. How many more threads about the overabundance of almost everything need to be made before someone starts to care about this issue and makes at least Stalker mode a challenging game (with little resources!) again?

[Vagos]

I see your point but as the devs mentioned they test out new possibilities on new mechanisms.

Maybe its just a play ground for the time being and then everything will be polished accordingly.

Up to now ML offers meat, CH offers cloth and DP offers scrap metals. PV was again another test on huge extra rural maps

[ChillPlayer]

I am with you on this as you know. It pains me to recognize that TLD has become a mere joke where update after update the devs do literally everything they can think of to make surviving easier - in a game where surviving should be a challenge.

It's a pitty really, the only thing that motivates me to start TLD is a new update, I go check out the new stuff within 5-6 hours and find myself again in an abundance of everything - at day 336 in Stalker. So far I found easily 10 rifles with over 100 ammo, have enough arrows to survive for eternity, I've scattered around the world about 20 knifes and axes I didn't even pick up.

Hint to the devs: when in a survival game players start to NOT pick up stuff they should be happy to find, the game goes in the wrong direction. It just doesn't make sense anymore, I mean, the furnace is a nice idea but who the heck needs even more knifes, axes and arrow heads? Blizzards are virtually gone now too, I was not caught once by a blizzard during the 6 hours I played today, not once. Sure I never went outdoor when it said "??? of daylight left" but that didn't matter before, 2 hours later you might've been freezing.

Wolf handfights are a real joke now too, clothes do not get torn appart anymore after a fight with a wolf, all you need is medicine which again, thanks to rosehips and old men beard's is available in abundance.

So what's the deal hinterland, are you seriously trying to bore us to death? It's such a shame because hands down, all the things you introduced in the latest patches that were not aimed at making survival easier are just jaw dropping. The graphics are incredible beautiful, walking under the starlight nightsky is pure joy, the soundeffects are simply wow, the whole world is alive soundwise and I hear my backpack rattling. So many great ideas, I really love the layout of the new map, the Riken is already one of my favorite places, I love the "shortcut" through the mine and the fact that you can destroy crates to find hidden things. But then you spoil it again because all you find is another pry bar or axe or knife or bullet no one really needs, not to mention ridicolous animal respawns and virtual unlimited food supply.

I was quite shocked when I learned on steamcharts.com that on average only ~400 players per day play TLD, hinterland you must have this statistics too. Ask yourself why this is, you sold well over 20k copies and no one is playing the game anymore. I know why I don't play it regularely anymore, it's because the initial promise of being a survival game where you need to work day by day for your well being is utterly broken. And it's not because I am a "pro" or "veteran" or something, I didn't learn a single thing more about the game mechanics since v196 but in those days I had to fight, fight hard to survive and everytime I played the game I had at least one or two close death encounters. Either I was starving or freezing or lost or all together. But in it current state I might aswell play deer hunter or go take a walk in the park, the excitement is about the same.

So... I'm sorry for my rant too but it really hurts to realize that the thrill and challenge TLD once provided is getting patched away with every update. I seldom say this about a game because well, it's a stupid thing to say, but I really loved TLD, especially when you introduced PV with the original settings of v196 IIRC. But righ now my last hope lies in the story mode and that you succeed in making it again an intense and deadly experience as it used to be.

/rant over, see you next update

[bethany]

Thanks for the feedback, it's been passed along.

[selfless]

I think they are doing pretty well with a game that was originally supposed to offer only 8 hours of gameplay and end when Springtime arrives to open Episode 2.

EDIT: Incidentally, they are claiming nearly half-a-million units distributed to date between Steam and Xbox.

[Sparky16]

I'd honestly would rather have to much instead of too little because the stuff doesn't respawn anyway. I'm still trying to find a hacksaw.

[Boston123]

While I actually like the new forging mechanic, and think it is really cool.....

Why do we have to heat up the metal, all in order to accomplish something that can easily be done with a file? It seriously just took me about 6-8 hours of in-game time to make 2 arrowheads (facepalm)

I've made arrowheads capable of taking down a deer (quite easily) with little more than a hacksaw and a metal file. Took me about 5 minutes. You can use an arrowhead as a knife, as far as I am concerned, so long as you make it sharp enough.

[thinair]

To start with.... after pv came out, i played probably 30 hours on it or so, and then i stopped, because small expansion in transitional zones did not phase me. I basically played only like 10 hours since first traditional zone was introduced until now. So basically good 5 months i had off from TLD.

Started playing again because of long awaited new map, new run in ch with v264 and now 265, i probably only visited 40% of ch at most. Basically 80% of ground floor, and 0 % of hills in ch. Spent there like 10 days to get it going, so i could go to new map all prepared. Now at desolation point i basically visited everything (only not explored the cave with wolf inside, when i saw him i turned around, and not visited cabin behind whalling spot). Its by far smallest map. This new update provided me of 9.4h of gameplay, more than 50% of gameplay i spent in ch so dont count. So basically waited for 5 months to get like ~3-4 hours of new map exploration.

and what chillplayer said... i'm totally agree, i already have like 3-4 knives, hatchet, 2 guns, 3-4 laterns, ~20 bullets, 2 hacksaws, heavy hammer, simple tool and quality tools, over 15kg of coal, bunch of scrap or so and blah blah blah. Honestly i dont even looted 2 houses next to ch gas station, just left it untouched, and not visited the house closest to commuters latern.... and as mentioned, have not visited upper parts of ch (abondoned lookout etc). Game on stalker is way too easy, too much stuff. For example, I'm back in CH to pick up stuff... and have like 60 kg of it. Ok 17 kg is sticks.... but the rest is clothing and what not.

I guess i just wont move stuff from ch, just will go back to DP, will spend another 1-2 hours to finalize exploration of DP and again call it quits for another 3 months or so. Because i actually have the cabinet full (40kg) in 1st floor of light house. Will Come back to playing when story mode comes out... hopefully by the end of the year. I'm 99.9% positive that there will be no new sandbox map this year.

For new owners of game its quite some exploration to do, but for veterans... we have to wait so long for so little.

1st ever tranditional zone took me maximum 1 hour to explore(just few caves). Then the big transitional zone (from hydro dam)i have not done it, but will take max 2 hours to do it. Now DP basically took me max 4-5 hours. Overall spent like 240 game hours, which is fine for 20$ game or whatever it was, i'm just dissapointed that its getting easier, and new content (sandboxes) is too small, and getting to know new mechanics like shooting bow, craft new items also doesnt take long.

in addition, in new update, i have not got caught in any blizzards yet, only stronger wind. I travel when its 10 or less hours left of daylight, until 1 hour left till daylight. usually its all sunny and nice. yall should introduce tanning future lol just lay down the bedroll by the water and get tan all day

[nicko]

what would be good would be a game Resources Setting with options for the gamer to select, then everyone would be happy

Resource Setting

1. Low

2. Medium

3. High

[Majales]

I agree with you Scyzara and Chillplayer. After few days in game you have fur clothes and from this point onward you are a happy camper, because there are a lot of materials and a lot of food. This hasn't easy solution without some resource slider, as nicko pointed out, because someone wants scarcer resources and someone likes current settings. I hope, that devs find solution for both groups, because I was excited when I bought TLD (v193 I think) and that excitment slowly vanished with v197 and later updates. Now I just waiting for each new update with wish, that this excitment will be here again. Next update then

[Kaisentlaia]

I have to agree here. I've been playing since january and at first it was a continue struggle for survival, but after a while everything mellowed down to a stroll in the park. Hypothermia was a welcome addition since it shortened my lifespan quite a lot, but it worked only until I got used to it. All this loot is really too much, I went to explore the new area, going from ML through CH and on the coast I didn't explore ANY building on the coast because my inventory was already full and I had no interest in finding additional stuff, nor a way to transport it.

At first everything was scarce. Then we said "there's cloth all around!" and the devs added tons of cloth to harvest. "Medicinal plants!" and the scarcity of first aid is gone. And last but not least "why can't we harvest all this metal lying around?" and here we go. Resources are finite but it really doesn't matter, I get bored before depleting even one. And you know what? That's bad from a game point of view, but it sorta makes sense. Not being able to find all this things in the kind of maps we are playing was really unrealistic.

Maybe now would be the right time to test a new thing or two on stalker. As many already asked before, less wildlife, less food. Longer respawn times. This is probably what would happen in real life in this situation: we would find almost infinite materials and tools lying abandoned, cold would be a problem just until we found better clothing, but getting food would be really hard. It could be nice for once to scout the map day after day hoping for a wolf or a deer, going back at base camp starving, looking with desperation at our useless stacks of tools and materials we can't eat. I guess this would balance this overabundance a little bit.

[octavian]

@Kaisentlaia: You make it sound as if all those mechanics were added because players said so. They have a clear vision, it is their own doing. This is their vision. Don't blame the players, they have no power except to play the game or not.

Same with the scrap metal balance. There's really no point arguing, after the months Hinterland put in this update? All those developers and testers, it's not something that can go unnoticed. It's simply the way they want the game to be. So what, we're telling Raphael there's too much scrap metal? Do you honestly think he doesn't know the amount of scrap metal available? Again, the update was pushed back for balance and polish. So what are we talking about here? Why would they release it if they weren't happy with the current state of the game?

So let's just judge .265 at face value and consider everything as intended. Do we have any information that desolation point went live in a state that was not intended? Was there an official statement to this effect? No.

The reality of desolation point is what it is. The quality of the new region, the balance, the changes, the bugs. The scrap metal issue is not just an isolated particularity in the new update. It's all fine if we want to get excited about a wolf in a cave - which glitches itself so hard it leaves the map - but I think if we focus on things like that we're missing the bigger picture.

Time's ticking. Only a few months until release. It will do well, I'm sure it will make lots of money. I'm also sure of the fact the game is not what anybody wants. Nobody wants it to stay the same, everybody wants the game to change. The players want it change, every player in their own way, and the developers want it change, because they keep changing it. All. The. Time.

It's not like they announced feature freeze, only fixing bugs, polish and balance. It changes from update to update, sometimes it changes fundamentally. Why does the "now" matter? It will change again with the next update.

I see no problem with the scrap metal balance. It's just there. What difference does it make? Some talk about how game version (insert version number here) was better. So? If they thought that version had the best mechanics/balance, we'd still have those mechanics and that balance. But we're don't, so, right there, that's saying all you need to know.

[jumpingbean77]

I so agree, it would force us to stay out for longer periods, with a higher chance of dying. It would also kill hibernation tactics since you would need this calories to hunt new ones.

As long food is scarce (after the initial scavenging period) it will be ok with a surplus of everything else, I would even say this is they way that I would like it.

[Kaisentlaia]

@Octavian: I agree with you that the devs have their own vision and they pursue it, that's one of the reasons I like this game so much. It is also true tho that they often listen to players' feedback and - if it's coherent with their goals, or if they judge it a good idea - suggestions sometimes are implemented. We don't have decision power, but we can influence a little bit the process with our observations.

I wasn't blaming the players. I think those changes are fine the way they are actually and I'm glad for the suggestions that were made (even though I'm not sure if they made a difference). Maybe my non-native English isn't good enough to convey meaning sometimes, sorry.

End OT, let's go back talking about scrap metal.

[ChillPlayer]

Why does the "now" matter? It will change again with the next update.

because the "now" is a tendency over the past half year to drown us in food and loot, we are not voicing our concerns because of this single update but because the single most importan cause for boredom is not getting any attention from the devs, if anything they make it worse by introducing shorter respawn times, more bears, a furnace for stuff that is plentyfull available, more materials, more loot and so on.

They say it's for mid-term play but what exactly is the devs idea of mid-term, day 1000? Because that's about the day when I will maybe wish for a way to forge a knife because I finally ran out of things. It used to be somewhere around day 100 in Stalker, in earlier versions even around day 30-50. I dare to wager that the number one cause of death for more experienced Stalker players today is boredom, either willingly by going harakiri to start a new game and feel some excitement again as Scy does afaik, or doing stupid things like hunting wolves during nighttime in Waterfront Cottages as I sometimes do.

Note we are speaking about Stalker. The current Stalker settings would be fine for Voyageur and that's exactly how Stalker feels nowadays. But the supposedly ultimate test to our skills should not throw walking food at you around every corner. For unexperienced players the encounter with a bear might be frightening, for more experienced Stalker players a bear means simply one thing: 30KG of meat.

[Spottdrossel]

Same with the scrap metal balance. There's really no point arguing, after the months Hinterland put in this update? All those developers and testers, it's not something that can go unnoticed. It's simply the way they want the game to be. So what, we're telling Raphael there's too much scrap metal? Do you honestly think he doesn't know the amount of scrap metal available? Again, the update was pushed back for balance and polish. So what are we talking about here? Why would they release it if they weren't happy with the current state of the game?

So let's just judge .265 at face value and consider everything as intended. Do we have any information that desolation point went live in a state that was not intended? Was there an official statement to this effect? No.

There are plenty of examples of critical bugs (as in players losing items or even whole savegames), unintended item properties (still remember the initial weight of a single rose hip?) and design flaws (e.g. the resetting of the filter every time you opened your inventory).

V.264 and V.265 have their bugs - even when the release was pushed back by 3 weeks (announced as needed for bugfixing and polishing). I'm sure there will be a V.266 next week.

So I don't think that every aspect of the result is the way they wanted it to be.

Sometimes that's because Hinterland weren't aware of all the implications themselves and other times because they didn't find a bug and let it go it into public.

When you say that you believe that this current state is exactly what Hinterland want today, does that include the glitching wolf? Does it include respawning items whenever you load a savegame inside the Quonset Gas Station or making Fishing Tackles without consuming items?

So why should it be impossible for them to not realize that some resource is so plentiful that it is virtual irrelevant.

[McGuffin]

Well, actually we don't eat metal, so having a lot of scraps doesn't do much from itself.

Also I dont think I have ever missed scraps for anything since the beginning of the alpha, so, I don't think this is a big deal after all.

The only thing that bothers me is that we can harvest tables, shelves and other big stuff. That seems a bit weird because it's really hard to do that, even with a saw.

Harvesting metal should probably stick with smaller stuff (metal crate, etc...)

[octavian]

@Spottdrossel: can you re-post what you said in this topic so I can answer you there? I don't want to derail this thread. That's my general .264 thread. We can talk about anything there. Thanks.

@ChillPlayer: well let's stay on the subject. Scrap metal is linked to forging, right, that's why it exits now. I'm not jumping the shark by saying that. The problem I have is that the new forging mechanic addresses an issue... nobody had? Arrowheads, knives and hatchets mid to late-game? I have literally no idea what they're talking about. And what if you couldn't harvest scrap metal? Would it have been not enough already? What do you think?

[ChillPlayer]

I'm at day 336 Stalker, my main hunting method is with the bow. I have still around 20 arrow heads I didn't even made into arrows - lack of feathers are the main reason for this - and I very rarely pick up scrap metal. Why should I? Instead of repairing a rifle I can just pick up any other of the 10 I have, same with axes and knives. So that's my answer: given that Raph onces said he didn't even made it to day 100 yet, I'd say my current days survived are well past mid-game on the devs terms and I have still literally more than I can carry of everything.

By literally I mean: if I would to put down all clothes and all Items and instead equip only the axes I have, or only the knives or only the rifles, I would not be able to move or at least sure not run - on day 336, this is just wrong...

[EDIT]: come to think, I know what my next video will be Maybe the devs and some people will then recognize what's so seriously wrong with the current state of Stalker.

[octavian]

Sure, I get that, but I think we're missing the point a bit. Let's consider scrap metal in .265 from the perspective of a new game.

I'm having a really hard time understanding their logic.

A player that knows what's what, can simply go there, right? They can literally start the game in DP and make scores of arrowheads, knives and hatchets. How is that mid to late-game?

A new player that just bought the game, supposing he/she just plays the game, no forums, no guides, no maps, no nothing, they could take an hour to reach DP, or a month. Especially if they're casual, just playing an hour or two, every other day, or during the weekends. How do you know to go there if you don't know anything about the game? You don't, it's all just luck. It could be the last place you ever discover. Not to mention deaths.

Also, have the number of knives and hatchets been reduced? Because now there is no way to consider scrap metal out of context, it's forever linked with forging, and hence knives and hatchets.

[jackattack]

Could the abundance of resources have something to do with stories/quests that haven't been added to the game yet?

There might be way too much scrap metal in DP for one person, but what about sharing it with a bunch of NPCs? If there were craftable items that required 10-20 units of scrap metal, would there stil be too much?

What are some potential uses of scrap metal that don't violate the "no electricity" premise of the game?

[Aduron]

I have to add here that fishing is now very nearly fixed as a result of this scrap metal change and calmer weather. All that's needed now is drastically reduced respawn times.

[Spottdrossel]

I have to add here that fishing is now very nearly fixed as a result of this scrap metal change and calmer weather. All that's needed now is drastically reduced respawn times.

Not in my books!

Hinterland has called TLD the game of "difficult decisions" basically from day one.

You would need your wits and guts to decide what to do.

However when you look around there is hardly a question about what to do.

Almost every item has a singular use.

You never need to wonder if you should burn that book or not, because that book has no other use.

There is never the question if it is a good idea to use a hacksaw on a metal pan to get some scrap metal, because that metal pan has no other purpose. You won't need it to make water because you can simply create an infinite amount of plastic bottles by melting snow on a fire.

There is also never the question if you should really use the hacksaw and drain its condition, because even harvesting a single scrap metal is sufficient to repair it for a dozen uses.

First it was cloth that became abundant and basically meant repairing your clothes or creating bandages will never be limited by how many cloth you can find.

Now scrap metal has reach this level and you will never again wonder if you can really afford to spent another scrap metal for any purpose. Of course you can - it's everywhere!

[selfless]

...

Also, have the number of knives and hatchets been reduced? Because now there is no way to consider scrap metal out of context, it's forever linked with forging, and hence knives and hatchets.

How can forging improvised knifes and hatchets be relevant in a world where the stock knifes and hatchets are fully repairable? I mean, who is going to search for a hammer, trek across the maps, gather coal, tend the fire, then forge?

Finding the many stock knives and a hatchets is far more likely than the hammer. You can then repair them at will with all your gathered scrap with a portable toolbox by gathering fir logs, which are everywhere and respawn. Only reason to actively search for backup pieces is if breakage becomes a possible random event. Currently it only happens if you never repair it (player controlled).

Or remove the repair ability for all stock tools. Limiting their life is required or finding or making replacements remains irrelevant.

What are some potential uses of scrap metal that don't violate the "no electricity" premise of the game?

Crampons/Ice axe/Grappling hook.

Latches/Locks/Bars for security.

Repairs for antique, steam-powered tractor/locomotive?

Trade on the Black Market for weapons upgrades ?

Platemail :lol: ?!?

[KD7BCH]

What you guys are asking for is essentially a 4th difficulty level.

Resources are maybe 25% of what they are in Stalker.

Random events occur every "in game week" which can both benefit but also harm the player, a bad storm blows over a bunch of trees and gives free wood to be harvested, or it snows really bad and you cant fix any sticks for two days and all teh traps are buried in snow.

Where food poisoning and wolf bites are much more dangerous.

Where the effect of clothing is halved and you are constantly on the lookout for making fire and warming up and trying to survive.

Where sleep recovers you but at half the rates in Stalker.

Is this what you want?