AmericanSteel

(Un)Limited Resources

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I am running into a later game problem. At @170 days it seems that boredom is going to be the true mindkiller. I don't hibernate, which forces me to perform something (mending clothing, gathering wood, boiling water, etc). At this stage of the game though the problem has really set in. The amount of available food (and wood, so water too) is unlimited. On its face this crushes the long term game.

1. Just survive - This is the early part of the game. We have poor equipment, no tools and our outlook is bleak.

2. Establish a Base - Most have now gathered some meager gear, a few tools and are in the process of laying in a bit of supplies to survive more than just day to day.

3. Trapper/Furrier - We are now into the phases of getting the best gear possible: hide clothing, bows, etc

4. Long Haul - Now begins the process of storing up for what could be eternity out on the ice. Laying in as much wood and water as we can, while keeping our trapper/furrier instincts intact

5. Cabin Fever - Survival now becomes a chore of maintaining stores, with no urgency in any activity. Even in a completely blindside encounter the player can make it back to base, lick their wounds and come out smelling like a rose. Tons of wood, water, furs and laid in meat from all that fur harvesting has left the player the ability to withstand just about anything short of a monumental fail.

If what we know as The Long Haul was eliminated, Cabin Fever would never set it. The only way this can be done is by reducing and even eliminating prey animals from the landscape. Looking at the trappers and furriers of today (and years long gone by), these frontier's men and women would have to push into new territories to secure tradable goods. Why? Because they over harvested the existing animals. That simply does not happen in TLD. Sure, we can put a dent in the population by over harvesting but give the system a few days and everything will be restored.

Hear me out. Lets keep the current meat/calorie load of the animals the same. What if every particular spawn was on a 120 day timer? Let's base out at ML and you like the Base Outpost (I know I do). That means the two wolves around the Base Outpost at ML would be gone first. Then the three to four out on the ice on ML would be next. A wolf is only going to last you about two days of exploring, so in 10 to 12 days that area is going to be clear. Add in the two deer in that same area, you may push it to 20 days. In ML I would surmise there are probably a total of 15 to 20 wolves and maybe 8 deer. What if the wolves got to the deer before you did?! The player is going to be forced to go into another zone when they run out of game in their "home base" zone. Ergo, the near infinite supplies of furs are going to run thin. Forcing the player out more and more, wearing on their gear more and more, just to live. Ice fishing begins to look more lucrative, but do you want to waste guts on fishing when you need them for traps or repairing clothing? Do you risk the uncertain shot on the deer or do you stalk more? Do you risk damaging your clothing against a wolf when really what you need is meat?

Players are going to be in a constant flux between #1 and #3 above, with Long Haul a fleeting glimpse of rest on the best of days. Starvation would become your constant companion yet again. Wolves would be an enemy to begin with, but as their numbers dwindle, so does that chance to maul the player. As that chance falls so goes the shot at easier food. More players would succumb to the elements or die of starvation before there were killed by wolves. So our true enemy is revealed. The biting constant cold, the buffeting winds, the gnawing hunger become the hydra we just can't kill.

Thoughts?

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It has been bandied about before: Wildlife fades as days become months.

But it may violate one of the developers rules for the open sandbox: No victory condition.

While dying of starvation may not seem like a victory, it is a scheduled ending. Your suggestion puts a mathematical cap on gameplay. Presently sandbox goes on (theoretically) for ever. Leaves players room to define their own victory.

Mine currently is 50 days survived. I seldom explore more than one map per game. I win a lot.

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I like this idea, but I think some people like building up a huge stockpile as well. I had a similar suggestion over in another post, where I played a game in which I added in long respawn timers. It was a ton of fun!

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Oops, read OP wrong. You probably could go on forever with longer respawns.

But that would allow the player to remove wolves from the landscape for long periods. And that may violate another rule: Persistent threat.

I guess you could make the exception and keep wolves everpresent. And give them all leprosy so nobody eats them anymore. But now is that a zombie?

... similar suggestion over in another post, where I played a game in which I added in long respawn timers. It was a ton of fun!

Nice.

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Thoughts?

Yep!

Please don't get angry at me but I think you (and many other Players) take this game far too seriously ;)

Remember: It's a Game...and no RL-Survival-Training Facility :D

But seriously...in some points I agree that there are some things that should be changed.

On the other hand:

In my opinion there's no sense in exaggerating the realism in games like TLD while there are so many 'wishes' that are more or less senseless for such a game.

Sure you're right when you say that at a point the game becomes kinda 'boring'...but hey...if it comes to that point, just start over a new round...or dump everything you've gathered in a fishing hole and play on. ;)

At least for me this game is not intended to show off with the fact that 'I survived a GAME under the hardest conditions for xxxxx days'.

To explain my point of view a bit:

I've read (in the Forum) about ballistic-issues with the Rifle that should be 'fixed' to RL-Conditions...crafting abilities for bows (even crossbows) with sights...stone tools...and so on and so forth.

Would you really expect from an (average) Pilot that he for sure knows how to handle a gun 'the right way' or to wich points you have to target at an animal for getting it down...build a 'High end bow' eventually with sights...or even how to build a crossbow?

Is it magic that he knows wich stones are usable for tools...and how to craft them 'right'? ;)

And about 'unlimited wood'...there are trees...plenty of them...give the pilot the ability to cut them down..'et voilà´...

...sure there's nearly 'unlimited wood...what else? ;)

But hey...maybe it's just me who's to stupid to recognice that this game is intended as a 'survival school for RL operations' :mrgreen:

For me it must be fun to play games...and if it gets boring in the long run...as I said above: just start over and try something else (like you allready did).

Please don't get me wrong:

There are plenty of good ideas to change gameplay in some ways...but I think it's not all about 'more realism'.

[sarcasm]

If I want the 'RL-Thrill' of surviving I just go outside...perhaps to midtown...instead of sitting in Front of a Display, klicking buttons and complaining about the lack of realism in a Game ;):D

[/sarcasm]

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I guess you could make the exception and keep wolves everpresent. And give them all leprosy so nobody eats them anymore. But now is that a zombie?

You have some of the wolves contract rabies. You can harvest the meat... but I wouldn't. Rabies would also explain some of their more aggressive tendencies. Animals with rabies will do some crazy things!!

I can speak from personal experience after getting my left arm torn up while in the Army (and I did received the rabies shot series after TYVM). One minute the dog was trying to bite out my throat and the next it was padding off like Benj without a care in the world. Drew my pistol after initial encounter and something odd caught my eye. Oh, it was the blood arcing out of my wrist from the puncture wounds. If I had not been wearing a wrist watch it probably would have taken my hand off. I would love to say I dropped a round in the dog, but I called for back up and retreated to my patrol car, trying to remain conscious. You know what kind of crap you get from other cops when you pass out? ;)

I saw the dog two weeks later and put it down with a 4 "C" Cell maglight. That way I did not have to fill out paperwork for discharging my weapon.

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Players are going to be in a constant flux between #1 and #3 above, with Long Haul a fleeting glimpse of rest on the best of days. Starvation would become your constant companion yet again. Wolves would be an enemy to begin with, but as their numbers dwindle, so does that chance to maul the player. As that chance falls so goes the shot at easier food. More players would succumb to the elements or die of starvation before there were killed by wolves. So our true enemy is revealed. The biting constant cold, the buffeting winds, the gnawing hunger become the hydra we just can't kill.

Thoughts?

I'd really love to play such a kind of TLD. A drastically reduced mid-game length would benefit the game incredibly much in my opinion.

I've explained my thoughts about problems with (in)finite resources in a much more detailed fashion in this thread (simply because I saw it first) but I could have posted here just as well.

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@AmericanSteel: Oh, I can vouch for rabid dogs being insane too. I've had encounters. I have scars. :cry:

I agree with AmericanSteel and Scyzara. There is a problem. We probably wouldn't agree on the same fix :lol: but that's not up to us regardless. Yes. There is a problem with resource balance.

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I've explained my thoughts about problems with (in)finite resources in a much more detailed fashion in this thread (simply because I saw it first) but I could have posted here just as well.

Surely you posted in my thread because you liked it better ;) just kidding :lol:.

But I agree with the OP for sure. Don't get me wrong first and foremost shoutout to the devs for making an already awesome game with an amazing atmospheric experience. However, I do think that the thrill of the game could be enhanced even further with a bit more tweaking to the resources. Just a few minor changes to keep a constant threat up, be it wolves or running out of resources, rather than being able to settle in and get too comfortable for extended periods of time.

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I cannot wait the devs to reduce resources or respawn rates. It could be months or forever. It seems the respawn rate increases with every new release.

I now adapt a new play rule: never use any weapon, not even knife or hatchet.

Try this rule and you will find all the fun back just like playing this game for the first time.

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It's simply the nature of the game (currently). It really depends on what scope the devs have in mind in future. Will we be able to survive until the season changes? Will a player goal such as building a vehicle to escape be put into the game? Or will it simply be a case of play until you get bored.

I very much like games where the gameplay scales and changes as you go on. In TLD to start with you are surviving from minute to minute, then day to day, then finally like a lot of people say you can survive infinitely. At each stage the stakes are different, and the gameplay is somewhat different. If there were more long term, endgame goals then players would have more to focus on once they have discovered how to "defeat" the early game survival systems.

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This is another great idea and I love the OP's layout of game flow and mechanics. Totally accurate. We do need a solution for this to create more of a challenge. Honestly, over time you reach a point where you are maxxed out. You hardly die anymore unless you get bored and do something reckless on purpose. I am interested to see how the devs respond to this. This type of game is fun for me because it forces me to flex problem solving muscles. If I cannot get past Day 30 with too much food and overall resources and too little to do, then that is a problem.

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