Fatigue / Exhaustion "Insomniac" exploit and solution

[ethomas21]

Love the game, been playing for a few months now.

Wanted to offer a bit of feedback on a game mechanic that seems too easily exploitable, and a potential solution.

When I'm outside foraging, hunting, etc and I run my fatigue meter too high, the consequences are very real. As of the latest version (v258) you cannot sprint when exhausted, your carrying 'capacity' is reduced by 50%, and brandishing a torch is all but futile. The danger of being caught outside is real, which would reflect actually being caught outside while "exhausted" in real life. No energy to run or fight = bad news.

However, if you can make it back to a safehouse with your booty (wood, raw meat, etc) there are several things you can still do inside for a very long time without resting to restore fatigue. I have stayed up ALL NIGHT cooking 15 or 20 kg of meat and boiling several liters of water, or crafting a new set of deerskin boots, all while my fatigue meter was maxed out. Since the condition drop is extremely slow for exhaustion, I mostly just ignore it while I'm inside, only sleeping when I plan to go back out again.

This doesn't really seem realistic. In the same way people have found and used the "Hibernation" exploit, this would seem like a comparable "Insomniac" exploit.

So, here's my idea to fix this.

When the player is exhausted (or it could apply as a gradient towards the high end of the fatigue spectrum) normal tasks could either 1) take longer, or 2) carry a risk of making a 'mistake' resulting in injury or material loss. If I'm exhausted and trying to cook meat, I might slip and burn myself, or accidentally burn and ruin the meat. If I'm crafting, I might slip and tear the stitching in what I'm making causing it to start with less than 100% durability. Same would go for harvesting wood or animals using tools, there could be a chance for injury or losing materials. Or both. I think this would certainly discourage players from staying up all night when they really should be sleeping, or at least make them consider the risks vs benefits.

The mechanic for potential injuries or material loss could apply at all times as well, not just when exhausted, same as with walking around always carries a risk of spraining an ankle, albeit significantly less when moving on even ground at low fatigue carrying a light pack.

Anyways, there's my feedback and big idea. Would love to know what people think.

[kamajutsu]

Interesting idea. A more simple implementation could be that your crafting, fire making and repairing chance of success drops considerably if you're too tired

[ethomas21]

That's not bad either. I like the idea of chance-of-success activities failing more often when you're exhausted. However crafting, cooking and harvesting don't have success rates, so those would be unaffected and still exploitable.

If you are freezing for too long, you risk the condition Hypothermia. Maybe if you are exhausted too long you could get "Sleep Deprivation", a condition which would put into effect the things described previously in this thread?

And going back to the hibernation exploit, maybe there's a similar mechanic there about adding a "Prolonged Starvation" condition acquired after too long starving. In that case, it would make sense to add one for prolonged dehydration as well. Maybe these carry a decreased movement speed and carrying capacity, and increased fatigue rate. Just riffing here...

[Aduron]

If you are freezing for too long, you risk the condition Hypothermia. Maybe if you are exhausted too long you could get "Sleep Deprivation", a condition which would put into effect the things described previously in this thread?

And going back to the hibernation exploit, maybe there's a similar mechanic there about adding a "Prolonged Starvation" condition acquired after too long starving. In that case, it would make sense to add one for prolonged dehydration as well. Maybe these carry a decreased movement speed and carrying capacity, and increased fatigue rate. Just riffing here...

Everything in this thread is gold. +1's all around. I particularly love OP's idea for crafting while exhausted causing a chance to start with lower than 100% condition. Also, I like the idea that everything takes longer when exhausted, creating a feedback loop of exhaustion. I'm a really big fan of the current Hypothermia mechanic, and would love to see other things like it implemented.

I think the most likely thing if I was forced into this survival situation - and I consider myself "rugged", but I definitely would get hurt, sick, overtired, and mostly just have many days spent indoors recovering from my stupidity.

[Deerber]

I would absolutely love this. Everything in the OP is absolute gold, as far as I'm concerned. Especially the idea of extending conditions like hypothermia to the other needs as well - I'm absolutely in love with the idea!

Hinterland, please listen to this guy. This already awesome game will become even better if you do

[vimrich]

+1 here, good ideas.

[bethany]

Thanks for the feedback and observations. I'll pass them along.