Rub Two Sticks Together...

[jackattack]

Now that the game has sticks, I would love to see the character use two sticks and a bit of tinder to start a fire.

In addition, I would use the same mechanic as the wolf combat to do it. Not only does this show the effort of starting a fire through strenuous physical activity, it gives players a chance to practice the mechanic in a situation that doesn't potentially kill the character.

A new method of starting fires should be accompanied by a decrease in the number of matches available in the game.

[kamajutsu]

I agree, and also have thought about this idea. Since the game is revolving around variables that will ultimately hit zero at one point, there needs to be a few things (just a few) that will tilt the odds slightly in the survivors' favour.

E.g. the number of matches in the world will eventually hit zero. The sticks and branches respawn, so that means that variable is sustainable. Tools like the magnifying glass is relatively sustainable (despite the restriction of using it during the day), and of course the flint sparker can degrade to zero over time.

Mechanic - Using 2 sticks together, perhaps also needing to carve them with a hunting knife into smoother sticks, means that survivors have a somewhat sustainable variable for lighting fires indefinitely. I don't think this mechanic would make the game too easy either. Maybe you have to spam LMB as fast as you can to rub the sticks together, with a relatively high rate of failure. And of course, if its windy, you can forget about doing this altogether.

Perhaps in the UI, when you go to start a fire, the devs could implement "2 sticks" in the menu where you would find the matches. Then the minigame could begin of rubbing the sticks together, with a high chance of failure. Successful fires will also increase your fire starting skill as per usual.

An interesting idea that I hope will get some consideration.

[Bill Tarling]

Hard enough rubbing two dry sticks in the summer, let alone trying to start a fire rubbing them together in the damp winter when you're already freezing and low on energy.

[kamajutsu]

Hard enough rubbing two dry sticks in the summer, let alone trying to start a fire rubbing them together in the damp winter when you're already freezing and low on energy.

Very true, Bill! Perhaps making a 10% or less chance of working on a non blizzard or windy day. Or maybe it's a seasonal spring time option, if a change in climate occurs. Still an interesting idea!

[jackattack]

I could definitely see restricting it by weather, similar to the magnifying glass.

Tying it to the wolf-fighting/strenuous-activity mechanic is meant to show that this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe it should also take a long time in-game, say five or ten minutes per second of real-time effort, or two or three minutes per click.

Perhaps it would be more realistic if cured saplings could be harvested down to a number of dry sticks, but that would severely limit the usefulness of using sticks to start fires. However, I am much more interested in game balance than strict realism.

[kamajutsu]

I am much more interested in game balance than strict realism.

I agree with that. We are already building roaring fires ontop of pure snow, which is already not exactly realistic.

[toebar]

Rubbing 2 sticks together? I assume you mean using a

Or please do elaborate

Constructing a

is a much more plausible method. It's not exactly easy, but much more doable.

[jackattack]

Hand drill or fire plough.

These are actually more stick-and-tinder, or stick-and-firewood with tinder, but my usual crowd would balk more at starting a fire with one stick than with two.

Perhaps a fire bow/drill might be another craftable item using the maple sapling, and would reduce the time by a considerable margin.

[Boston123]

The "hand drill" method is only really effective when it is REALLY REALLY dry outside.

A "bow drill" is better in literally every single way. Faster, "easier", and can be made using a spare shoelace. The "bow" doesn't have to actually work as a bow-and-arrow.

Better than the "bow drill" is the "Pump drill", which, asides from starting fires really easily, can also be used to drill holes. Like, in a backpack frame, or snowshoes.

[Farmerbob]

I'd definitely like to see fewer matches and more firebows.

Like this:

[bBvideo 560,340:1610quci]

[/bBvideo]

[JErosion]

Sometimes I think there should be two types of crafting in this game, simple crafts which a player can do on their own without the need to go to a workbench(ie. threading a fishing line into a fish hook) and then have the complicated crafts that need to be done at the table.

In this case a Bow drill "kit". for it you would need a Birch Bark, a tinder plug, three sticks, and fishing line. Using the kit results in a lit torch.

[kamajutsu]

+1 to all who mentioned the bow-drill. I also like the ingredients required. I think once you construct one, it should have a few uses before it breaks. Maybe also a higher chance to fail, so it's reserved for desperate times

[elloco999]

Primitive fire starting methods like hand- or bow-drills have been suggested numerous times before, but I'll add my +1 to this thread as well.

I don't think we should be able to use just any two sticks though. It should involve at least some crafting. With just about any primitive fire starting method you need a fire board and a spindle. For a bow drill you also need a bow. So let the player craft those.

I would say a bow drill would be the best choice gameplay wise. It is more viable than a hand drill and it also introduces the chance the bow "string" will break, adding a gameplay element.

To those saying starting a fire using these means in a wet and cold environment I say: it's important the spindle and fire board are dry. Drying these items out inside would make it possible to start a fire despite the moist outdoor conditions. You would of course need to place the fire board on something dry when using it outside, but this could be implied like so many other things are in TLD.

One last note: please please please don't use some mechanic like the mouse smashing wolf fighting mechanic! (And remove that wolf fighting mechanic as well please.)

In addition, I would use the same mechanic as the wolf combat to do it. Not only does this show the effort of starting a fire through strenuous physical activity, it gives players a chance to practice the mechanic in a situation that doesn't potentially kill the character.

You can "practice" that mechanic even with your PC turned off. Just smash that mouse button...

[Falborin]

Didn't though of this before, but this is a great idea. Definitely a +1.

And thinking about sticks, storms and wind gotta bring some branches down from trees. I see it all the time when I go into the wilderness. Maybe add a mechanic for renewing sticks and possibly even wood, but that last one would definitely be slower and maybe following storms.

[elloco999]

And thinking about sticks, storms and wind gotta bring some branches down from trees. I see it all the time when I go into the wilderness. Maybe add a mechanic for renewing sticks and possibly even wood, but that last one would definitely be slower and maybe following storms.

Sticks respawn about every 1-2 days, branches take maybe a day more. Tree limbs also respawn but they take a bit longer.

[toebar]

Always something to consider, is does the game need this mechanic?

I agree it would be a nice one to have, as it may even be useful to someone in real life , but the game has quite a few methods of starting a fire already. If, as posted earlier, the number of matches is decreased, then it would make sense to have this alternate method (perhaps as a learned method?). Still, it could be argued that it doesn't ADD much to the game, since its just another fire starting method-- how many is too many (or enough)?

[Leonard87]

Like kamajutsu said. It would be a renewable object like the magnifying glass, which in turn is not buildable. I like the idea. +1

[elloco999]

What this would ADD to the game would be a fire starter that you can create yourself. Right now, if you don't get a magnifying glass, you will eventually run out of other methods to start a fire.

I would not mind if the number of matches would be decreased if this gets added.

[AmericanSteel]

I am going to play devils advocate on this one. We need to be able able to make a smaller bow (so take a maple sapling and cut it in two, then use one gut). You then have to worry about the gut breaking or the bow breaking. I would then say the spindle would need to be made out of the other sapling, which again are used to some degree (success or failure). Why? The player is going to be forced to make a choice at some point: Fire or Food. Do I use these materials to make a fire OR do I use these to procure food (a la wolf or deer). I would say the hearth board needs to be made from Fir (simply because it is more rare than cedar). A block of fir might make a board that was good for 10 uses or so.

While I don't think this is incredibly realistic, I do think it forces the player to make a choice. They have to find the rare materials and then live or die by that limited resource decision.

[jackattack]

My final thoughts...

I think a fire plough could possibly be improvised with stick and firewood without crafting a new tool, although it might require a knife.

When I said to use the wolf-fighting mechanic, I meant whatever the fighting mechanic ends up being. While I personally find the LMB mechanic much friendlier than the two-button mechanic, I hold no illusions that this will be the final version.

I think the addition to the game is the increased likelihood of running out of matches without it being a death sentence. Although I haven't lasted more than 66 days, running out of matches has never been a concern -- it should be a major "oh crap" moment, not a remote theoretical possibility.

[toebar]

Agreed jackattack-- running out of matches should happen much sooner (at least above pilgrim), and an additional fire option would help that to be fair.

I do like the idea of allowing the player to become familiar with the wolf-fight mechanic (whatever it may be) by utilizing it in a non-lethal situation--I've suggested something similar before in fact. I think it still has potential, and this could be one of the situations.

[kamajutsu]

I'm still definitely into this idea. Especially when you get into day 100+, the matches turn into a ticking timer. Besides the magnifying glass (only can be used OUTDOORS, which restricts its use significantly) and the firestriker (degrades and is useless eventually), the matches start to literally determine how many fires you have left.

You will be kicking yourself for every time you struck a match in the dark just to walk a few feet. That is one potential fire wasted, that could have saved your life...

Firestarting is the one variable that eventually will hit zero, and it seems strange that there is no renewable, sustainable source. If we can make a complex hunting bow out of intestines and a branch (already highly unrealistic, for all those worried about 'realism'), then maybe a renewable firestarting source should be considered.

The bow drill or stick rubbing could be balanced by the following -

- Decreasing the drop rate of matches by 50% (or whatever value is fair)

- Making the success rate of a fire via this method very low (10% chance to work for example), but also a learned skill which increases the more often you do it.

- Make this method not work in windy conditions.

- Hunting knife required to carve

[toebar]

Firestarting is the one variable that eventually will hit zero, and it seems strange that there is no renewable, sustainable source. If we can make a complex hunting bow out of intestines and a branch (already highly unrealistic, for all those worried about 'realism'), then maybe a renewable firestarting source should be considered.

It's only strange if we believe that sandbox should last infinitely. The fact that matches (and thus fire) are limited has the beneficial effect of making each match valuable--you have to really consider what activities are worth spending one... make fires too easy and you remove that.

Bullets used to be this way before the bow was introduced. Still, with the introduction of the additional risk of hypothermia fires are even more important, so additional means may be a balance.

[kamajutsu]

There could be a happy medium...Interesting to ponder. I think it's just my internal paranoia popping up, cuz this is my second playthrough and I'm at 30+ days, and I wanna see how long I can ride this thing! :lol:

[AmericanSteel]

The eventual loss of matches in any given game is going to happen, if you live long enough. Knowing your only real source of fire is going to decay means warehousing supplies for this eventuality is paramount. If you get down to the point where you only have a few days of food/water left when the matches run out then you have been living for the now your entire game. Considering we have to survive the now that is not a bad thing, but if you don't prep for the future your screwed. Laying in supplies allows more leeway when you do have to build your fires in the open outdoors (using the magnifying glass) and then bring the fires indoors. It also allows you to stay in and not perish if an errant blizzard keeps you locked down for a week or two.

You need to start testing your ability to make a magnifying glass fire outdoors and what additional supplies are going to be needed ASAP. I started doing this around Day 75 after I had secured a bow, arrows and enough supplies to make another few bows and dozens more arrows (in small batches). It comes down to you need enough wood outside to create a fire + make a torch and then haul that torch inside. As I gather wood as I go now, it also means I spend more time outdoors cooking after a large kill instead of simply hauling the meat back to camp. If I have enough time to boil a bit of water then so be it. My single biggest mistake has been building my initial outdoor fire using sticks. When you do get the flame, just about any wind at all will knock it down. I recommend carrying a piece cedar (or a book) and then heap the sticks on and keep it stoked. The balancing act becomes not to have to much wood on the fire though, or a strong wind could blow it out and you just wasted all the kindling for nothing. To say this tactic has changed the end game is an understatement. It has made it almost a whole new game.