What will kill you on a very long run ?


Le_Survivant

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Posted

I was not sure where to place this topic, and I haven't see a similar topic.

I just would like to know what would or will kill you on a very long run if you are not killed by your own mistakes or stupidity, a fight with a wolf or with a bear, Which supply will you lack of, preventing to survive further ? If not, Is eternal life a possibility in the Alpha ?

I thought about this, and try to make some statements :

First you need to have (good quality) clothes, and to repair them :

Cloth : not much of an Issue, since we can harvest a lot of it in houses, maybe too much (I could have easily 100+ unused clothes in my storage). The items crafted will prevent you from suffer any trouble with your clothes if you paid attention to it. Now you can use fishing tackle to repair and craft clothes, the sewing kits will not be a problem neither.

In the long run, you will survive mostly with meat and fish so :

Rifle ammunition : there is not a lot of them, but largely enough to survive until you can craft a bow.

Arrows ? Maybe, I'm not really sure of the amount of birch sapling you can find in the nature, and how reusable they are

Next you will need to light fire to cook meat and boil water :

Wood : Great quantity in the houses, but you may find a lot of them in the nature. Though, it seems to be no more an infinite resource since the harvesting update, you will need now to find branches, cedar and fir firewood in the nature, and I'm not sure this things are spawning back once you harvested them. So, it might be an issue on a very long term basis.

→Same for tinder, clearly not an issue, since we can harvest it with cedar firewoods outside, and by breaking furniture inside.

The lighting of the fire : there is 4 way to light a fire. The matches are the most likely thing to disappear, and you will probably lack of them without even thinking of the lack of anything else. So there is the 3 others ways : the Magnifiying lense, which allows you only to start a fire outdoor while the sun is shining, very restraining. Could you light a fire outside on a regular basis to cook the meat and boil the water you need ? This is something I really wonder. If you are lucky enough, you will find the firestriker and the flint. And if you find this items, will they grant you this eternal life possibility ?

You will eventually suffer from disease and wolf attacks :

Antiseptic, and old beard men lichen : Antiseptic will eventually spoil, but with the amount of cloth available, bandages will be craft in sufficient quantities, so will the old beard men wound dressings. And the Old beard men lichen does not spoil over time. Probably no more an issue since this have been added to the game.

Antibiotics ? It was a big issue before, it was the death cause of the most advanced players, but since the food poisoning is less likely, I haven't had to use one in a 100+ days.

You will finally need to repair your tools :

Scrap metal are clearly one of the most limited supply of the game. I personally thinks that this is why may the most likely kill you on a perfectly played run. One day or another, no more scrap metal will be available, and the survivor will have to play without hatchet, and will be unable to collect more firewood, nor to go fishing.

The longest run in Stalker on the leader board is actually 2000 days +, and I'm sure this score will be beaten by someone in the next weeks. Please share your experience if you lived long enough to die from the lack of a particular supply.

(sorry for the English mistakes, it's not my native language)

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Posted

The only thing you really can't live without in TLD is fire. Everything else you can do without even if it gets very hard to play without clothes and a knife but it can be done. Fire helps you with everything here. It gives you water, food and warmth. You can use it to thaw frozen animal corpses so you can harvest them without a knife. You can use it to scare away wolves from their kills. If you select a good base (one with a above 0C air temp) and you have a magnifying glass you can keep going until you make a fatal mistake.

Wood and tinder are available in abundance so the only thing you need to worry about is ways to light a fire. Matches and firestrikers will run out eventually (although they can be stretched a very long way, on my 999 day Voyageur run I still had a bunch on matches left). The flint and steel is not in the game yet, and if it is added there is no guarantee that it won't degrade with use. So the only item that will last you forever would be the magnifying glass. If you can't find one, you will run out of fire at some point.

It is possible to use the magnifying glass to light a fire often enough to keep your water supply on level and cook any meat you need. I do that now just to save my matches. I use matches only for emergency firestarting (hasn't happened in the last 60 days of my 75 day run) and lighting torches when I encounter wolves that I can't outrun. For every other reason I wan't a fire I wait until the weather allows me to light a fire with the magnifying glass and then use a torch to bring the fire inside and do my thing there. There is some sunshine every day or two, so that's more then enough.

Posted

So, my conclusion was right ? The lack of scrap metal will eventually kills you on a perfectly handled run. (I mean in the last version .258)

You will need it to craft and repair your clothes ( to craft fishing tackles at least), and to repair your tools. But even if you manage to live without clothes and tools to use (must be really hard but maybe you could get used to it), you will need in the last version something to have some wood. You need wood to get fire, and you can only harvest branches and sticks without a hatchet, and certain types of reclaimed wood. Without a hatchet I'm not sure you can produce enough wood to cook and boil water.

Posted
Are you sure ?

Just by harvesting branch and sticks ?

Well, each stick adds 7 minutes, so you need around 100 to get the fire going for the longest time possible.

There are certainly more than that on any map at any given time. And they respawn.

So yeah, it's possible. How easy it is to do it consistently and still find the time to hunt for food, find the right time to light a fire with the lens, and cook/melt everything you need, I wouldn't know... But it definitely sounds feasible to me, if you choose the right place to stay.

I wouldn't bother with branches though, they're not as cost effective as sticks.

Posted

Sticks and branches are ample enough to cook and boil your water.

As stated by deerber, you can not build a fire and place 100 sticks on it before it is at the maximum amount of burn time. I had about 20 fir logs before the update, I have harvested one cedar and one fir since the update, just to see how long before respawn. I have burned nothing but sticks, Saving the already harvested fir for repairs

Day 210 or so --- Voyager run

Posted

I'm on day 90 or so in my current run. I haven't burned any fir and only 2-3 cedar. I'm using only sticks, so yes it is quite possible to do so. In fact, I've got 500 sticks stockpiled and that number is only growing because when I used a bunch for a fire I always forage for new sticks to replace them and I always get more than I burned.

It is possible to harvest a carcass without tools as long as it is not too frozen (50% like jackattack mentioned sounds about right, but I'm not sure). So you can harvest fresh kills, but you can also use fire to keep a kill from freezing or to thaw a frozen carcass to the point where you can harvest it. Do note that the meat will spoil a lot faster if you keep a carcass from freezing or thaw a frozen carcass. So don't be surprised if the meat is below 50% condition when you do this.

Posted

Am I the only one who finds it a bit weird that we're able to harvest carcasses without tools? I mean... That's not exactly an easy thing to do...

Posted

Nope, it's not easy. But it is possible if the skin has a cut somewhere. It does take much longer in game than using a knife or hatchet. The main reason it's possible at all is probably just to give you a chance when you don't have tools... A gameplay over absolute realism kinda thing.

Posted

I think what will kill most people in the long run, it has me, is ego. You get jaded and either think it won't happen to you OR it can't happen to you. It then happens and are your are like WTF over?!

For instance, at Day 105 (yeah, first run over 100 days) on Stalker I finally decided to break on CH. I see this zone as the carnivore exhibit gone horribly wrong. Wolves can run up almost sheer cliffs and appear out of nowhere. Some of the towns are no mans lands only fit for wolves. Etc. Anyway, I gear up with about 40 lbs of stuff and head out. When I broke into PV, I was packing close to 60 lbs (food and extra skins for repairs). I stuck my head in the snow before going on this expedition: a minimal amount of food, no extra hides, well worn tools and no backup supplies. While walking down the first switch back I get attacked by a wolf guarding a kill (arrow bounced off his hide) and then immediately jumped on one from behind after killing the first. I went from 100% and great gear to 50% heath and bleeding out of every orifice in like 30 seconds.

Hauled my butt back up to the little trailer near the tunnel and rested for about a day. Then headed back down to the fishing community. Ran into two more wolves and just got to the shacks. I ended up making a fire outside to prep some wolf meat when a blizzard blew in. Next thing I know all my homemade gear is yellow and I am freezing my rear off. I explore the area a bit and then swallow my pride. Less than a day later I am licking my wounds at the Camp Outpost, repairing my gear and wondering what just happened. I went from 100+ days to a newb after changing zones. Ego. Shot myself right in the big toe ;)

Posted

I agree that 99% of the time when I die, it is because of my own stupidity or stubbornness. I absolutely want to do something, the fact that it may kills you is not so important.

I.E I was today re-running in ML, and I decided to go the Dam from Camp office for some reasons in Stalker. As always I'm being attack by a wolves, and which start to bleeds out next to the derailment. I decid to hunt him since I needed a Wolfcoat. And then he decided to attack me back. After the succesful fight, he was still not dead. And another wolf decided to attack me, I still had 50% condition left. "Enough" I though. He left me bleeding with 6% and I was being once more attacked while I was painfully trying to go back to camp office. If I was not stubborn, none of this would have happened.

This reflect quite accuracy real life. You want to do something so badly than you forget to think about other options and hazards on the roads.

It shows too that your life expectancy cannot being maximized the most of times because of bad decisions.

Posted

For ultra long runs, you have to pick a good permanent location: one that minimizes the risk of going outside. I'm on year 2, and still have plenty of materials. My main base is the Farm house.

Safety:

Safety is always number 1. Learn where you can gather wood without predators. Make a clearly marked path to that spot from home (I use water bottles), so you won't get lost in a blizzard. At the farm house you can kill the bear from safety of the porch, or hunt deer without dealing with wolves. You should know where the wolves patrol near your home so you can pick the fights you want.

When you are outside, sightline is very important: you want a flat area so you can see any predators before they get close. The town on Coastal highway is terrible because of multiple wolves and poor sightline. If you can avoid wolf encounters, you will never run out of first aid.

Don't take risky routes! Avoid the ravine and be VERY careful going across the dam. Whatever you need to get is not worth the risk of falling to your death.

Conservation:

Don't wear clothing while sleeping. Get naked before fighting a wolf, so your clothing don't get ripped. Wear as few articles of clothing as possible: fewer things to repair means you use up less metal. It's really not worth keeping anything but the wolf coat + deer skin boots.

Only eat right before you sleep, so you can get the sleep-healing. One piece of meat should last you through the night.

Don't pick up matches until you need them. Don't search any containers until you need matches.

It may be more efficient to shoot an arrow next to a wolf that's eating (to scare it off) rather than to hit it directly. Arrow into snow takes very little durability loss.

Always pick up sticks (you can get those without using any durability on tools). Only chop fir, unless you need tinder. If your matches are at 5%, start using them up to make water and store the water away, or cook the rosehips / mushrooms.

You have to make a choice between repairing the knife / hatchet, and making hooks to repair clothing. Using the knife and hatchet means you don't have to stay outside as long, so your clothing takes less damage. I haven't worked out which is more efficient though.

By conserving resources I think I can make it to 5+ years. Eventually the clothing and ammo / arrows will run out. At that point, I'll have to fight wolves for food, while naked and unarmed. That's going to be tough...

Posted

Survival is theoretically unlimited. Rabbits give gut now, therefore food is infinite as you'll never run out of snares and can harvest by hand. Fire and therefore water is infinite with the magnifying glass. Sticks are infinite wood.

But there are practical limitations now more than ever. The new wood foraging system has slowed the game down significantly. It takes more time now to get from 1 to 1000 days. And once you get beyond 50-100 days or so all you do is drink and sleep, drink and sleep and then sometimes eat or melt/boil water. You will get bored and likely stop playing, or take long breaks from the game. Boredom can also cause you to make mistakes or be careless. New patches will come out and potentially fuck with your save file. Ennui is the great killer of the ultra long run, nothing else compares.

Posted

Well, you could play the way signal describes, but personally I don't get much enjoyment from that. Taking off your clothes before getting into a fight just doesn't feel right to me. And while I won't claim that I haven't done some starving when my food supply was low, you won't catch me eating 1 piece of food every day if I don't have to. Besides, like Kraelman said, you can get all the food you need with just 8 snares and you can replace broken snares using the gut those rabbits give you.

Signal does make some valid points like not picking up matches unless you need them and not scavenging when you don't need it. And staying away from danger is a smart thing to do if you want to have a long run. I do that as well. However I do believe it is much more fun to take some risk and do things rather then just survive longer while doing nothing.

I have made it to 999 days on Voyageur and then killed myself because I was simply done with it. I had plenty of supplies left to make it to 2000 days or more I'm sure, but I couldn't see the point in it. So I guess there's another thing that can kill you on a long run: suicide.

Only chop fir, unless you need tinder.

Or you could just harvest sticks for tinder.

@AmericanSteel and @Le_Survivant the OP specifically asked what would kill you in a long run, mistakes (stupidity) aside. I'm convinced that if you don't do something stupid that will get you killed, the only thing that will eventually get the better of you is the inability to make a fire if you haven't found a magnifying glass.

Posted

Thank you for your answers.

Why not going to day 1000 ? This bother me because I prefer even numbers ahaha !

I think that the question to know the lack of supply is an important one in matters of game balancing !

Your advice with water bottles is very clever. Let bottles all around the map to find back your way everytime ahaha! The farmhouse in PL seems to be the perfect place once the other maps are already looted for hunt and so on. The only problem is that there is no craft bench.

I Think that TLD should be appreciate by one differently and that there is no fun way or no fun to play. I personally like to try to life as far as I can, even If i had to use every dark aspect of the game, like the hibernation.

Posted
Why not going to day 1000 ? This bother me because I prefer even numbers ahaha !

It's all in the name: elloco999 :D

Your advice with water bottles is very clever. Let bottles all around the map to find back your way everytime ahaha! The farmhouse in PL seems to be the perfect place once the other maps are already looted for hunt and so on. The only problem is that there is no craft bench.

Yes, marking paths using water bottles (or other items like sticks, burned out flares etc) is a good way to find your way back to your base or other caches you've created. I use that as well for the important paths where I feel I might get lost in fog or a blizzard.

About that crafting table.

[spoil]The PV farmhouse does have a crafting table. It's in the basement. You can access the basement from the outside at the back of the house.[/spoil]

One note of warning:

[spoil]it's cold down there so wear good clothes or you might freeze to death while crafting![/spoil]

I Think that TLD should be appreciate by one differently and that there is no fun way or no fun to play. I personally like to try to life as far as I can, even If i had to use every dark aspect of the game, like the hibernation.

I've done that myself as well, but in the end it wasn't nearly as satisfying. I guess having played the game as much as I have I'm more interested in doing something than making the longest run possible.

Posted

I wrote in other threads that one piece of meat a day (800 cal) is not unrealistic in real world, especially if you are just staying in bed all day.

Yes the end game gets boring after you have explored everywhere. That has nothing to do with the strategy you use. It's just repetitive whatever you are doing.

Taking off clothing to fight a wolf is not worth it, I learned. I almost froze to death because I forgot to put clothing back on before harvesting the deer. I can usually shoot down a charging wolf anyway.

I forgot about rabbits... They're almost too much work to be worth while (450 cal for 1kg of food?) And I don't like how I end up with so many scraps of meat. Guess I'll have to do that when I run out of ammo, but I did a little calculation:

I have about 15 birch saplings, each makes 3 arrows, each arrow can hit 4 times before going broke, and each hit should yield about 12 kg of food (1 wolf 1 deer). Eating 1 kg of food a day, that should give me 2160 days. The Steam leaderboard shows 3000 days is the 2nd place.

What will end up killing you is carelessness, cockiness, and taking unnecessary risks. That and suicide, of course. That's why we need some sort of animal companion... End game is so lonely and dull that most people just quit living. I wonder if that is intended by the game designers. If so, it's a very dark idea.

Posted
I wrote in other threads that one piece of meat a day (800 cal) is not unrealistic in real world, especially if you are just staying in bed all day.

While it may be possible to not die eating 800 cals a day for some time but it's not realistic to do so. I've been trying to loose some weight by trying to stay under 1700 cals a day (and not succeeding every day) for two weeks now and I already felt so weak that I decided to eat normally for two days to get my energy back. And this is with 15-25C temperatures while not doing much more than work, play with my daughter, rest and sleep.

Just try living two weeks on 800 cals a day while doing nothing and see how you feel afterwards. I doubt you'd feel up to the task of hunting, gathering fire wood etc. Now do this for two months...

Posted

I know that hibernation is a quite controversial topic, but from what I heard from the devs, they don't endorse this way to play so it may disappear sooner or later.

So obivously, I was wrong about what is going to kill you may be the lack of arrows or bullets ? And then because of that, having to hunt wolves with hand, the lack of antiseptic maybe ?

I don't understand your strategy signal. Do you really eat 1 piece of meat everyday ? With the hibernation system it is possible to live about 3 days with a single piece of meat, so you could do it way better if your goal were only to go with the leader board ?

The rabbits are a good source of calories. Just don't harvest them fully to avoid the rest of meat. With just 3 trap, you get usually 2 rabbits, which means about 800 calories. Enough to survive one more day !

IRL anyway, scurvy will kill you in such situation. Indeed, no vitamin C in meat.

Posted

Why would you risk infection by fighting wolves by hand when your bullets/ arrows run out? Like I said before fire is your friend. Wait for a wolf to kill a deer (or help it along) and then approach the wolf with a burning torch. The wolf will come after you but keep its distance. Either try to scare it away with the torch, move to some building or start a fire next to your kill (or keep using torches, but be sure to keep an eye on the duration) and harvest it with the wolf watching you. The only danger would be if the wind blows out your torch while you do this...

So again: the only thing that will kill you for sure is not being able to start a fire.

Posted

wood respawns. wolves, deer and rabbits respawn. The limiting resource is either matches or metal. They have suggested a mechanism to give more metal that is by periodically respawning some items that you can harvest for metal. You can replace the arrow shafts and reuse arrows and there seems to be enough saplings on each map to make a TON of arrows. (btw they are quite heavy in quantity, just like sticks and tinder)

Items like striker wear out rather quickly. You can (or used to) be able to get about 20 lights from a striker before it broke. With a magnifying lens you can start an outdoor fire and then transfer it indoors using a torch. It's not ideal but I carry torches to carry fire and save matches if I can.

Cloth and clothing don't seem to respawn so that can also get you in trouble on long runs.

Weather can kill you quick. There are places on PV (near Draft Dodger's Cabin) where you can get easily lost and there are zero shelters there and very poor caves that I could find with the limited time I can devote to exploration. We don't have the luxury of endless hours to play after all.

A vicious storm can spring up at any time. Movement during storm is exceedingly slow even if you know exactly which direction you need to go (F8 helps in desperate times) Storms can kill almost at random.

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