Fatigue should be fixed

[BaneofBadgers]

I've been playing in voyageur mode for a little while now, and I couldn't help but notice the ridiculousness of the fatigue system. I mean, i could sleep for 5 hours and the fatigue would only drop down a small amount! I mean, 5 hours is half a good nights sleep, yet it depletes about a tenth of your fatigue. please fix, as would make the game more realistic and fun to play.

[sir ice]

well, I agree. I'm like my pet cat, sleeping 18 hours every day. Its annoying.

[Lolmaster]

Are you sure you're not running? That causes fatigue very fast. I can walk for a LONG time without having to rest.

[Aduron]

I love the current fatigue/walk/sprint system. It feels believable, if on the edge of moving too fast, and the sprint is quite respectable, considering I'm usually walking around in snow gear and 20kg of gear on my back. In my experience backpacking, I carry around that much weight, and I don't move too fast, or if I do, I need a nap afterwords.

[BaneofBadgers]

its not how fast the fatigue goes down that bothers me so much. I just think sleep should make the bar go down a bit further than it currently does. I mean, 5 hours of rest should at least set it halfway back, right?

[Maninpants]

I love the current fatigue/walk/sprint system. It feels believable, if on the edge of moving too fast, and the sprint is quite respectable, considering I'm usually walking around in snow gear and 20kg of gear on my back. In my experience backpacking, I carry around that much weight, and I don't move too fast, or if I do, I need a nap afterwords.

I understand this point but I still think the fatigue goes down waay too fast. I go jogging, sometimes sprtining, cycling etc (and yet I'm still fat... damn you lifestyle choices!!) but I can do these activities and then I crack on with the rest of the day. I don't need to go to sleep for another 6 hours just to be able to function again.

I know I'm not deep in the snow etc and I have been trekking in deep snow before and what you say IS true in the way it does match up... but I should be able to jog/run along the road (PV) and not need to recover for 5 hours in bed. That is completely unrealistc.

They need to reduce the impact that sprinting has on the fatigue bar. We get stopped from sprinting once the sprint bar has been depleted. This is fine. Doing this 2-3 times though shouldn't result in us needing half a days sleep to recover.

To fix this - Either the fatigue bar doesn't fill up so quick or it should decrease when sleeping much quicker

[Mr GLitch]

I've been playing in voyageur mode for a little while now, and I couldn't help but notice the ridiculousness of the fatigue system. I mean, i could sleep for 5 hours and the fatigue would only drop down a small amount! I mean, 5 hours is half a good nights sleep, yet it depletes about a tenth of your fatigue. please fix, as would make the game more realistic and fun to play.

Humans in a survival situation are normally under a great deal of stress. If you can imagine the thoughts you'd have when dealing with everything the TLD character has to, then you might feel worn out quickly as well as having a constantly disturbed sleep from the environment. Noises from storms and rattling metal or trees could easily make sleep a bit more ineffective.

I found that sleeping 8 hours with a two hour nap midday (along with a cup of coffee if my fatigue is in the yellow) is about the right amount to keep fatigue from becoming a major problem. To me, it's somewhat realistic.

They need to reduce the impact that sprinting has on the fatigue bar. We get stopped from sprinting once the sprint bar has been depleted. This is fine. Doing this 2-3 times though shouldn't result in us needing half a days sleep to recover.

Yes, but since the game has a very fast timescale meant to make up for the size of the maps (from what I can surmise), the distance and the time you're sprinting is actually much longer than you think. If I sprinted for an hour or two a day, I'd be dead tired.

[sir ice]

Yes, but since the game has a very fast timescale meant to make up for the size of the maps (from what I can surmise), the distance and the time you're sprinting is actually much longer than you think. If I sprinted for an hour or two a day, I'd be dead tired.

though u r right. we shouldn't judge that way. 1 minute is about 10 seconds, so if you walk 5 miles an hour you would actually be walking half a mile per hour. you'd be a fricken turtle. i don't think the sprint thing applies.

[Bill Tarling]

you would actually be walking half a mile per hour. you'd be a fricken turtle.

IRL through fields of deep snow, that would actually be quite speedy - and extremely exhausting even just walking. Travelling longer distances would actually be pretty brutal (and made even worse hauling heavy supplies).

That's where the game is adjusted for gameplay rather than realism, and they let us travel faster and longer than a casual [untrained] person would get around.

The earliest versions (around v.026 or so, and earlier) had a very realistic walking and travel speed -- but it would have felt like walking through molasses for most players. The marathon running that was added later just never felt right, nor did it make sense -- sure you could get around faster, but the fatigue cost was negligible and players could simply run everywhere almost non-stop without caring.

The Sprint option works well - it's meant for emergency or planned short spurts only (and yes has the higher fatigue cost as would not only be more realistic, but also limits abuse). It also means if you waste it without thinking, then you might not have the speed burst when danger does pop up.

Remember - sprinting is much faster than just jogging or even running... think of it like running on adrenaline (especially out of fear or panic to escape in emergencies)

[Maninpants]

@ Bill

I don't disagree with what is being said but I think this system makes the game too slow and snail paced which for me and others is frustrating. I just had a quick 10 minute session (down from mulitple hours) and I've come off because I travelled from th Camp Office to the Ravine, I used srpint a few times and my Character is dead on his feet *sighs*. In game it took 3 hours (and I agree with Sir Ice and Mr Glitch with regards to distance percentages etc) but now with 9-10 hours of daylight left I've had to burn 4 hours sleeping due to being kernackered!

Yes sprint was being abused before (I am guilty of this), but it's not like we didn't pay for it. This system feels too restrictive imo. Yes there is a balance between surviving and thriving, realism and fun but for me the latter is being washed away and being replaced with annoyance and turning the game off

I do agree with everyone that sprinting would affect us like it is.... so maybe could we get a 'jog' function as well as 'sprint' ?

[danicusrex]

Yeah, as far as "realism" goes for meter depletion/ recovery, it's strange but Pilgrim seems to be the most accurate.

[selfless]

I've been playing in voyageur mode for a little while now, and I couldn't help but notice the ridiculousness of the fatigue system. I mean, i could sleep for 5 hours and the fatigue would only drop down a small amount! I mean, 5 hours is half a good nights sleep, yet it depletes about a tenth of your fatigue. please fix, as would make the game more realistic and fun to play.

Sleeping is not linear ingame. Four 2 hour naps are not equivalent to 8 hours of consecutive sleep. Sleep deprivation is a thing. BOOM! There's you're realism.

[AmericanSteel]

I got on for an hour last night hauling a load of fire arms from the Farmstead in PV to the Base Camp in ML. I walked the entire way and took between 3 and 4 hours of "game time", which equated to about 20 min of so in real life. I would bet the intervening distance was between 3 and 4 miles, so about 1 mile an hour. This sounds about right trudging through the snow. Now some of the time I was walking in cave, on the ice or inside Carter Dam. I can still see the slow down walking on ice and I can rationalize walking slower through a cave, as some of the areas look unstable.

The average jane/joe walks about 3 miles an hour, carrying nothing on their back. Sustained movement of 4 miles per hour or more for most people is unrealistic. They just can't walk 4 hours at a time and be "useful" if anything was to occur. In the army, the standard with a 35 lbs ruck was was still 3 miles an hour. This standard was a milestone that was accomplished after 8 weeks in basic training. A lot of recruits had problems with this sort of load, and they had 8 weeks to get in shape enough to do it. Most "combat" units expected a full combat load (60 lbs + weapon + ammo + water) at 4 miles an hour (which is brutal). This changed for snow operations, if you had to make a path, to 8 to 10 miles per day with a standard load. No commander I knew enforced a combat operation load higher than 4 or 5 miles per day. I can recall numerous training exercises in Colorado where we moved as a three man team with a skirmish load (15 lbs + weapon + ammo + water), through knee to waist deep snow (wearing boots, not snow shoes) and were lucky to sustain 1 mile per hour. We started out ballsy, but that did not hold true after about 15 minutes. Swearing, sweating and freezing you find a fast pace will kill you far sooner than enemy bullet every would. We would get to the OP one to two miles away, set up security and then start changing clothes as we were quickly freezing to death. Turns out that slow, deliberately places steps we more efficient over the long haul.

I understand the fast paced, FPS oriented dynamic has changed our perspective on how game movement should be. Most games out there simply treat snow as just coloring over a surface. The whole game world might as well be a flat pavement. This is extremely unrealistic on its face. I believe TLD is trying to recapture some of that realism that is sadly missing from other games in the market (hence the niche).

Secondly, why is everyone bringing up eight hours of sleep as the only standard we need for recovery. It is the only standard you need for sitting in our climate controlled world pushing paper. Kicking my tail in a training environment I slept about 10 hours a day and would welcome my rest days to sleep in (if I got them). In the field it was common to push 16 to 18 hour days with less than 4 hours of sleep a night. After about three days of running missions you would pull back to the TOC and take a down day to rest and recharge, mixed with maintenance and personal hygiene. In these kinds of survival situations, resting = survival. Expending finite calories aside, being put under this sort of stress wears on you. Unless you have be put in this sort of situation (which I have) you really can't comprehend the physical/mental toll it puts on you. Sure you can think about it, but thinking and feeling are different. Having to stay on your toes against the unknown enemy around every corner wears on you. People who don't stay frosty tend to get people killed. Best way to simulate that loss, turn off the sound on your system and play not hearing the wolves. Because as your senses wear down, you stop picking up on cues people keeping a fresh mindset will see. It's hard. Really hard. The only way to escape and recharge in the game is to sleep.

I don't have any problem, what so ever, with the aspects of movement or resting. I think the most recent update brings the realism back to center in these regards. I don't mind sacrificing the "gamy" experience for realism. There is enough gamy stuff out there already.

[Bill Tarling]

I would bet the intervening distance was between 3 and 4 miles, so about 1 mile an hour.

The map size for ML, CH, and PV + the three transition maps is about 25 sq km (just under 16 sq miles)

[AmericanSteel]

I would bet the intervening distance was between 3 and 4 miles, so about 1 mile an hour.

The map size for ML, CH, and PV + the three transition maps is about 25 sq km (just under 16 sq miles)

Feels like just over a mile from the Farmstead to the cave entrance, though I take a longer path to escape common wolf partols. I figure the max distance Carter Dam to the cave entrance @ PV might be a mile. Taking the Southern Access/High Road from the Dam to the Base Camp feels a bit less than a mile.

What do you think the distance would be between the Farmstead in PV to the Base Camp in ML, using Carter Dam as the transition?