Proposal for a non-interactive wolf struggle

[LucidFugue]

Hi everyone. I thought I'd post this little essay on the wolf struggle - I've spoilered the sections for ease of readability.

Introduction

[spoil]

“One of the systems we’ve struggled with the most on this project is how to make wolf interactions an interesting challenge from a gameplay perspective. We’ve never wanted the game to devolve into more of an action experience, and wolf struggles have remained the only part of the game where you actively have to fight against something. We’ve toyed with many many different ideas, and prototypes various systems including first person combat, where you would actually see a knife or hatchet on screen while you fought with a wolf, but in the end, those solutions never felt right to us.”

- Raphael van Lierop

Prior to the .256 update, the wolf struggle contained a quasi quick time event whereby you built your strength with the left mouse button, and launched an attack with the right. This presented a balance between the frantic clicking action related to fending off the wolf, with an element of strategy or skill as the player could manage the strength of their attacks to inflict a mortal wound on the wolf, rather than simply having it flee.

That interactive model presented different issues depending on player ability:

• New players were initially confused by the system, and often died during their first few encounters while they worked out the mechanic
  
• Experienced players variously described wolves as “walking calorie bombs”, as they could engage a wolf and finish the fight in a predictable pattern, trading off condition and a potential wound for several thousand calories.

The .256 model appears to address both of these concerns by simplifying the mechanic such that new players can quickly learn the mechanic (just click) and experienced players have little to no advantage (you can no longer guarantee a kill).

Despite a noted exploit to this model making wolf struggles trivial for the time being, the criticism largely stems from the removal of skill from the encounter. In addition to this, legitimate concerns have been raised about requiring/rewarding aggressive inputs. I don’t have RSI or arthritis, but making a game accessible, particularly if it is not an action game by design, should be a consideration. After reflecting on the evolution of the system, my understanding of the design goals, the insights from the quote above and the various feedback I’ve read from the community, I’ve put some thought into a non-interactive solution to the wolf struggle.[/spoil]

The proposed system – automated combat resolution

[spoil]Many systems of non-interactive combat resolution exist and do not remove player agency from the outcome of battles. They simply shift the focus to preparation and planning for an encounter, as well as controlling the context of the encounter. For a solid example look at a Paradox Interactive title, such as Hearts of Iron or Crusader Kings. The combat simulations are very detailed, but once the battle is joined there is actually little for the player to do. I would propose a similar, formulaic approach to wolf struggle resolution. This is my basic outline, but the Devs would know much more about how their existing systems interact and how it could be implemented.

Phase 1 - Initial Engagement

Assuming the wolf has approached and pounced on the player, the initial attacker is determined using an initiative calculation. The wolf gets a random number from within a pre-set range, and the Player’s condition form their own base initiative. Modifiers exist in the form of surprise factor if the wolf connected from outside the player’s cone of vision (i.e. you weren’t facing off and ready for the encounter). A Fatigue penalty starts to apply past about 1/3 full and tops out at Exhausted.

PI = Player Initiative
WI = Wolf Initiative
C = Condition 
S = Surprise element
F = Fatigue Penalty 
PI = C-F-S
WI = Random value within a defined range
 If PI > WI, Player attacks first. Else, Wolf attacks first. 

Phase 2A – Wolf Attack (Chance to Hit)

In the wolf’s attack phase, the wolf first selects a body part, then makes its attack.

It would make sense to weight the selection towards the limbs, with the head being least likely. Each Body Part would also have its impact on the chance to hit modifier, reflecting the difficulty of landing a bite on the player’s head, for example.

A = Base wolf attack rating 
D = Base Player Defense rating 
BP = modifier based on body part
F = Fatigue penalty 
AP = Affliction Penalty
Chance to Hit = (A*BP) – (D-F-AP)

High Fatigue impedes your ability to defend against wolf attack, and afflictions can be devastating, particularly ankle sprain. I would count “overencumbered” as an affliction for the purposes of this calculation.

Phase 2B – Wolf Damage

Wolf damage is already implemented I’m assuming, but I would suggest adding a modifier based upon clothing protection (not implemented at current) in order to:

• Discourage the tactic of stripping clothing to avoid wear and tear during fights
  
• Expand the decision making around clothing choice beyond weather resistance (i.e. Mariner’s Peacoat, being heavy and woolen, would likely provide more protection than the Premium winter coat, which is synthetic with stuffing).

This would require some rebalancing of weights and values to compensate, but could provide interesting choices in terms of outerwear. Clothing Defense is only counted for the affected area – so an attack to the legs only counts legwear + shoes, arms count gloves and torso wear, head only counts headwear.

If the hit caused damage, run the existing checks for afflictions, perhaps modified by the body part selection (if this isn’t already part of the existing wolf attack routines).

Phase 3A – Player Attack Chance to Hit

The Player’s attack chance to hit is similarly affected by fatigue and afflictions, but includes a bonus for weapons. Note, this is a bonus TO HIT, not to damage, so I would suggest rating weapons on their handling ability. A Prybar might be easier to connect with han a knife, which has a shorter reach.

A = Player base attack rating 
D = Wolf base Defense rating 
F = Fatigue Penalty
AP = Affliction Penalty 
WBtH = weapon Bonus to Hit
Chance to Hit = (A-F-AP+WBtH) – (D)

If chance to hit is positive, the player strikes successfully. Again, fatigue and afflictions affect combat performance in the sense of landing blows. However I would weight wrist sprain heavily here, instead of ankle sprain.

Phase 3B – Player Damage

I suggest basing damage dealt on Hunger and weapon condition. Hungry players are weaker, and weapons in poor condition provide a lesser bonus to damage. Much like fatigue, the hunger penalty doesn apply until you’re actually closer to half full (say, < 1500 cals) and gets progressively worse as you approach starving. Wolf has a base defense to overcome, you could alter it within a range to make some wolves hardier than others.

AD = Base Attack Damage 
H = Hunger Penalty
WB = weapon Bonus
WC = Weapon Condition
WD = Wolf Defense 
Damage = AD-H+(WB*WC)-WD

Phase 4 – Combat Resolution Check

This is where the wolf can determine if it breaks and flees, or goes another round. And of course, the player might be dead. ^.^[/spoil]

Reasons

[spoil]The wolf presents a unique design problem in that its role in the game needs to evolve as time passes. For newer players, the wolf is extremely intimidating. It must be avoided, it blocks access to areas, it can prevent players reaching safety as numerous wolves can keep the player feeling penned in and unable to reach their preferred destination. A wolf struggle without a weapon or appropriate medical supplies can be deadly. Flares and torches are used to ward off wolves and provide safe passage.

However in the mid and late game, the wolf becomes prey. Better equipped players who are adept at the struggle mechanic can face off against wolves with little worry. Trading bandages for food instead of bullets.

It is a shame to see the wolf lose its intimidating presence due to the way the wolf struggle focuses on mastery of a mechanic. One way to maintain the wolf as an intimidating presence is to remove the player’s ability to control the outcome of an encounter though this mechanic. This puts the balance of the wolf's danger ot the player in the hands of the designers, so that the wolf can strike fear into new and veteran players alike by presenting them with insecurity over their future. This doesn’t remove the player’s ability to plan and strategise around the wolf, but it makes unplanned encounters much more terrifying as the player is less sure they will be able to escape without serious harm.[/spoil]

Further Suggestions

[spoil]An additional suggested change would be a variable to impact the wolf’s decision on whether to engage or flee the player. Experienced players have pointed out that the wolf behaviour in Pilgrim can present a greater long term challenge as there is no longer a source of food that willingly approaches the player to be killed and consumed.

I would suggest that low condition, high fatigue, afflictions, as well as feeding on a carcass should increase the odds that the wolf engages the player once it is aware of them, whilst the absence of these factors should push the wolf towards fleeing the player much like deer.

This may result in intense frustration for players as wolf encounters come at the worst moments, but that puts the wolf behaviour more in line with that of an opportunistic predator, and increases the level of understanding about their behaviour an experienced player must learn before they can feel truly comfortable sharing the environment with them.[/spoil]

Discussion

I put this together in the hopes that it would spur some community engagement on the idea, because I get the feeling that making the wolf struggle interactive just doesn’t sit with the design of the game, and I’d rather gauge the support for a passive system that contains depth outside of the struggle itself, rather than pushing Hinterland to continue trying to make an interactive system fit.

[EternityTide]

Wolves should also take cover when a blizzard hits, not tail the player with impunity as the storm rages around them.

[elloco999]

Wolves should also take cover when a blizzard hits, not tail the player with impunity as the storm rages around them.

True that!

[Majales]

Nicely done.

+1 +1 +1

[octavian]

I put this together in the hopes that it would spur some community engagement on the idea, because I get the feeling that making the wolf struggle interactive just doesn’t sit with the design of the game, and I’d rather gauge the support for a passive system that contains depth outside of the struggle itself, rather than pushing Hinterland to continue trying to make an interactive system fit.

I don't think anyone is pushing Hinterland to do anything, or could if they wanted to.

As far as I'm concerned, if I think of something, they thought of it already, and since it's not in the game it must mean they decided it doesn't work so there's really no point in me saying anything except for the sake of it. After all, they're developers, that's what they do, make video games, right?

I'm fine with whatever they decide on, they have a vision and are world class team, right? So I'm sure whatever they settle on will be fine.

.256 is just a first-released-to-the-public iteration and I just pointed out an oversight in my Tap Tap Tap video - and maybe something deeper but that's irrelevant - the maximum number of clicks that can register per xTime.Delta can be easily capped.

But like I said, you can put me down for, whatever. I know wolves cannot get a radical implementation, so regardless of how wolf struggle will filter down to us it can't really affect the way I enjoy the game, which basically means I'll continue to enjoy it regardless. :idea:

[AmericanSteel]

I would not mind an encounter summary. I can't tell you how many times I have shot a wolf with an arrow at point blank range to the back to the neck/head and they never saw it coming. I could have just as easily pounced on them with a blade and drove it through their throat, where I could use my body weight to pin them down.

Having to give the wolf the benefit of the doubt and then give them the advantage in melee is frustrating.

[selfless]

Agree wolves-as-meat is probably a side effect of the realism of making all animal corpses harvestable and not intended gameplay. Does anyone hunt deer at all? Why? Wolves are lureable and stand still while you sight them then willingly fall on your knife. Deer just run away. Hunting deer is hard. Slaying wolves is far easier and almost as profitable. Slaying wolves that have just killed you a deer is completely overpowered...

[AmericanSteel]

Agree wolves-as-meat is probably a side effect of the realism of making all animal corpses harvestable and not intended gameplay. Does anyone hunt deer at all? Why? Wolves are lureable and stand still while you sight them then willingly fall on your knife. Deer just run away. Hunting deer is hard. Slaying wolves is far easier and almost as profitable. Slaying wolves that have just killed you a deer is completely overpowered...

I shot a deer off my front porch of the Base Camp last weekend. I walked outside and saw the deer. So I crouched and waited. It walk a bit and then it turned. I stood up, knocked the arrow and let it fly... dead deer. I walked off the porch and heard a bark, turned and a wolf was coming over the tracks at a full tilt. Dropped a lure and backed up. The wolf slowed down to investigate the meat, thock! said the arrow, dead wolf. All I needed was a rabbit to come bounding over the hill to get my meat trifecta badge

We don't currently have the ability to force animals off cliffs as method of killing them. So, I scare rabbits and deer into the wolves when I can. I then either scare them off, kill them or enter melee. No different really than coming upon a wolf already at a kill. However, I do believe there should be some sort of consequences for taking a kill from a wolf. The animal is not pristine.

When a wolf takes a deer down, it crushes the windpipe to complete the kill. So no real loss of resources there. The first thing wolves are going to consume is the internal organs (ie high grazing), while the meat of the animal is saved for last. So why are they guts left? Dunno. I would change the wolf feasting mechanic to eat the guts first, then the meat and finally the hide. That said, I think the devs need to add a damaged hide to the mix. If a wolf has had time to ravage a kill or the animal has been left out in the elements to long, the hide should not be as good. It would then take 2 damaged deer skins and a gut to equal one good skin. I would say a rabbit pelt would be torn to bits in short order as the wolf is going to consume the entire animal. The player would simply find a bit of fluff scattered about a bloody splotch on the snow.

This sort of mechanic would still reward the player with resources if they scared an animal into a wolf (or happened upon a wolf feasting) but not as much as if they trapped it or shot it themselves.

[LucidFugue]

As far as I'm concerned, if I think of something, they thought of it already, and since it's not in the game it must mean they decided it doesn't work so there's really no point in me saying anything except for the sake of it.

I'm fine with whatever they decide on, they have a vision and are world class team, right? So I'm sure whatever they settle on will be fine.

I think you’re underestimating the impact you can have, Octavian. Yes, it is Hinterland’s vision and they call the shots, but in my line of work I’m tasked with research, stakeholder engagement, and solution development. My skillset lies in drawing from a wide range of sources and presenting a coherent analysis of what “the experts say”. The experts always include people on the front lines, so to speak. You have the time to devote to playing this game way more than the Hinterland devs, and their time is better spent designing the game according to their vision. They hired community reps to act as go-betweens so they could spend even more time doing what only they can do. Those hours you put into the game, and your insights as a result, as well as your own background outside of the game, are all valuable.

To be honest, I didn’t start thinking about posting this topic until I read Dessicator’s post at the end of page 6 of that thread.

[LucidFugue]

Another addendum: A few years ago I had the opportunity to attend a Q&A session with Steve Fawkner, creator of Warlords, and Puzzle Quest. I asked him how he came upon the idea of taking a match 3 puzzle game - popular from Bejeweled and in the tradition of solo, score attack games, and use it as a battle mechanic.* He said that one of the things he had learned making Warlords was that no matter how complex a series of choices a player needs to make, if you can identify a discrete set of choices into a turn, you can add any number of players, and it becomes more about balance and scaling.

How this relates to the above is that you could easily accommodate 2 on 1, or even 3 on 1 encounters by adding additional wolves. Hinterland can key animations to the outcomes of each phase, so you are seeing the struggle resolve in real time in a dynamic way. This might satisfy players interested in seeing wolf packs.

*Super Puzzle Fighter predates Puzzle Quest in doing this, but isn't turn based.

[toebar]

well thought out suggestion, and communicated succinctly! nicely done.

That said, I'm still on the fence on how it would feel to have no input during the wolf struggle... I see pros and cons to both ways.. more cons for clicking I think, but I fear it might feel like it's missing something if struggle input is removed altogether.. It can be easy to pass it off as just clicking a button, so it shouldn't be missed... but ultimately the entire game is just clicking buttons, so that's not always a fair dismissal.