Tinder

[paulsoaresjr]

Is paper the only tinder material? Surely we can forage twigs from the forest! I would hate to die of freezing or dehydration because I can't light a darn fire in the woods because I lack tinder.

[Guest Alan Lawrance]

You can find tinder plugs directly, but I believe right now paper is the only material that can be converted to tinder. There has been some discussion in other threads about expanding this to include cotton balls (sourced from first aid kits) or being able to shred cloth for tinder.

We've been discussing some changes to how wood and tinder is gathered in the game that would address your concern of not being able to easily source tinder in wooded areas. Raph may (or may not) want to expand on that.

[Bill Tarling]

There has been some discussion in other threads about expanding this to include cotton balls (sourced from first aid kits) or being able to shred cloth for tinder.

Cloth soaked in accelerant should work -- although I hate using up the cloth needed for the clothing repairs, so that would be a last option

[robdoar]

Twigs are kindling, not tinder.

[paulsoaresjr]

Twigs are kindling, not tinder.

Oh geez! Not looking to get into a debate but you CAN use twigs as tinder. My point is there's definitely tinder options in a forest and not being able to, say, strip the bark from a birch tree with a hatchet seems a bit of a shame.

[Bill Tarling]

I think the devs are looking at a number of options -- plenty of things that will be added and tweaked... and I know they also have a lot of surprises for us ahead

[accurize2]

I've foraged for wood from the menu and I've gathered tinder plugs before, it's not guaranteed though. Sometimes you get nothing, sometimes you get firewood, and sometimes you get firewood and tinder plugs.

Personally I would like to see the Foraging menu setup so you can be specific about what you want to go after. Forage Tinder - Forage Firewood - Forage Both.

Someone is hooked on TLD me thinks...

[Bill Tarling]

I've foraged for wood from the menu and I've gathered tinder plugs before, it's not guaranteed though. Sometimes you get nothing, sometimes you get firewood, and sometimes you get firewood and tinder plugs.

Someone is hooked on TLD me thinks...

And don't forget harvesting the newsprint

[robdoar]

Not debating either... Tinder is something that can take a spark, which a twig cannot do.

I do agree that there are more options in the north for tinder. Birch bark, old man's beard, Chaga fungus...

accurize2, The ability to specify what you want to gather is brilliant.

[clell]

I wanted to find out the definition of tinder so went to the only place to guarantee the whole truth - Wikipedia.

Please check the last material from this definitive list.

Materials commonly used as tinder:

Dry pine needles, leaves or grass[3]

Birch bark

Dead, standing (usually one season old) goldenrod

Cloth, lint, or frayed rope (if made from plant fibers and not treated with fire retardant)

Char cloth

Cotton swabs, tampons

Paper, paper towels, toilet paper, etc.

Dry bread or knäckebröd and shoe polish

Punk wood (in the process of rotting) or charred wood

Some types of fungus (best known is the amadou or horse's hoof fungus)

Bird down

Small twigs (poor tinder but commonly available)[4]

Fatwood, also known as rich pine or pine knot.

Fine-grade soap-coated steel wool

Shaved magnesium or other alkaline earth metals[5]

Babies

[paulsoaresjr]

Not debating either... Tinder is something that can take a spark, which a twig cannot do.

Sure, your definition of "tinder" is correct. But you're still sorta missing my point. We're talking about TLD and freezing to death with matches in my backpack while surrounded by trees, with bark, twigs, moss, sap, needles, etc. Surely I can get a fire going if my life depends on it, regardless of what Wikipedia says about the word tinder.

[RJIII]

I wanted to find out the definition of tinder so went to the only place to guarantee the whole truth - Wikipedia.

Please check the last material from this definitive list.

Materials commonly used as tinder:

Dry pine needles, leaves or grass[3]

Birch bark

Dead, standing (usually one season old) goldenrod

Cloth, lint, or frayed rope (if made from plant fibers and not treated with fire retardant)

Char cloth

Cotton swabs, tampons

Paper, paper towels, toilet paper, etc.

Dry bread or knäckebröd and shoe polish

Punk wood (in the process of rotting) or charred wood

Some types of fungus (best known is the amadou or horse's hoof fungus)

Bird down

Small twigs (poor tinder but commonly available)[4]

Fatwood, also known as rich pine or pine knot.

Fine-grade soap-coated steel wool

Shaved magnesium or other alkaline earth metals[5]

Babies

Babies really don't light up like you think they should even if you dry them out for a few days :]

[robdoar]

Not debating either... Tinder is something that can take a spark, which a twig cannot do.

Sure, your definition of "tinder" is correct. But you're still sorta missing my point. We're talking about TLD and freezing to death with matches in my backpack while surrounded by trees, with bark, twigs, moss, sap, needles, etc. Surely I can get a fire going if my life depends on it, regardless of what Wikipedia says about the word tinder.

Am I missing your point? Did you continue reading?

I do agree that there are more options in the north for tinder. Birch bark, old man's beard, Chaga fungus...

accurize2, The ability to specify what you want to gather is brilliant.

[Bill Tarling]

Will be a nul discussion soon anyhow -- I'm pretty sure Hinterland is already tweaking some fire stuff already, and will have additional surprises too.

Besides, you guys know IRL better than I do [survival for me is trying to last the night when the internet is down], but I do remember when I was a kid (we did a lot of camping and cookouts in the winter riding into the Canadian mountains) that a lot of our forest gatherings [we didn't bring much in premade supplies] required a lot of drying out first. A lot of the time we bundled small twigs, needles, branches, etc. beside the first fire just so we could use them the next round.

There's always good stuff to burn in the forest [i agree it should be a little easier to forage at least bits and pieces in the woods], but the snow and constantly changing weather [warmer/colder/warmer] often meant a lot of our Canadian wood was soaked through -- huge pain trying to get lit in the deeper woods in the mountains.

Depending on the area in Canada, a lot of our winters suffer from huge humidity issues in the winter too. Here in BC winters aren't bad, and feel mostly dry... back in Ontario it always felt like you were constantly soaked outside... Montreal had major storms [that's where we did most of our winter camping on the farm], and had tons of trees for gathering maple syrup (but were a major [censored] to start a fire from].

Biggest thing from growing up in the woods near Montreal was that we were constantly cold and wet gathering wood... plus snow got so deep in places that it took forever to even gather small batches... that's the experience I keep reminding myself about when playing.

These days gathering is likely easier -- but don't forget we've landed way out of the normal populated areas. I'm a bit surprised there are no wood piles [by cabins] or more heaters -- but that's more likely a game balancing thing rather than trying to mimic real life likelihoods.

I don't mind a lot of the nit-picky things that don't quite match real life because the game includes so many of the challenges most games don't include, and they do balance it for gameplay as well.

Plus we're still in just the real early alpha stages... you know Raph is sadistic and just chomping at the bit to release new challenges and dangers to drive us nuts :lol:

[clell]

The point of my post was that wikipedia says babies are tinder. I was not trying to correct anyone on what tinder was. I was only educating myself.

[robdoar]

The point of my post was that wikipedia says babies are tinder. I was not trying to correct anyone on what tinder was. I was only educating myself.

I found that hilarious, along with your slight at the accuracy of Wiki, ;-)

Looks like someone removed the fun today... :-(

[accurize2]

I wanted to find out the definition of tinder so went to the only place to guarantee the whole truth - Wikipedia.

Please check the last material from this definitive list.

Materials commonly used as tinder:

....

....

Babies

Just to be clear, puppies are kindling then?

:lol:

[paulsoaresjr]

Am I missing your point? Did you continue reading?

I do agree that there are more options in the north for tinder. Birch bark, old man's beard, Chaga fungus...

accurize2, The ability to specify what you want to gather is brilliant.

Well, I think my point was more along the line that twigs could be considered a source of tinder, particularly if you have matches or a lighter (which I DID have on me in the playthrough when I froze to death because I ran out of Newsprint!)

Even so, when I wrote "twigs" in the original post, it was sort of a generalization meaning "lots of materials in this here forest that I SHOULD be able to use to start a fire!" I admit it, your rather terse reply placed a chip on my shoulder and the discussion turned to twigs and the definition of tinder instead of focusing on the original point.

And then babies got burned.

Anyoo, I still love you. :lol:

Oh but accurize2 has a good idea! Maybe different types of tinder offer varying modifiers to the chance of success of getting the fire started. For example, twigs would be VERY low while pine sap would be much higher.

[Raphael van Lierop]

Yup, as Alan says, we have some plays to overhaul wood harvesting and firestarting in general. Right now it leaves a little too much up to chance for my liking, but it works! I think the improvements we made to the Animal Harvesting, where you can be a little more deliberate about what you are looking for, could be applied to Fuel Foraging as well.

I'm completely open to adding more depth to the Firestarting component of the whole thing, if that's what people want to see. We have a design in mind for some more direct player involvement as well (in terms of blowing on the spark to get a flame out of it, introducing a bit of timing to the whole thing) but not sure we'll get to that in the next iteration.

[accurize2]

Yup, as Alan says, we have some plays to overhaul wood harvesting and firestarting in general. Right now it leaves a little too much up to chance for my liking, but it works! I think the improvements we made to the Animal Harvesting, where you can be a little more deliberate about what you are looking for, could be applied to Fuel Foraging as well.

And you guys have knocked it outta the park with the new harvesting system! It's so much more granular and I have found myself contemplating going for a fresh deer kill vs other pending needs. Whereas before, if I had room to spare...snag a steak. It has been an amazing addition!

I'm completely open to adding more depth to the Firestarting component of the whole thing, if that's what people want to see. We have a design in mind for some more direct player involvement as well (in terms of blowing on the spark to get a flame out of it, introducing a bit of timing to the whole thing) but not sure we'll get to that in the next iteration.

This would be incredible. Here's why. Getting a fire is THE most important part of survival in this game. It should be a challenge, but not unfair. It should reward forethought and pre-planning. If your extremely fatigued, hungry and dehydrated with food poisoning, I'm thinking starting a fire should be significantly harder than if you've taken good care of yourself and you're squared away. Like Raph said, timing might be a factor. So, if you're completely wiped perhaps this will cause that timing window to be tougher; If you're healthy, then more forgiving.

But again. Props to the devs for their incredible efforts. I'm so impressed that I'm almost to the point of stating in my videos the "I'm not being paid by Hinterland for my opinions" simply because I end up gushing about the game and devs so much. Thanks for that team Hinterland!

[robdoar]

I'm completely open to adding more depth to the Firestarting component of the whole thing, if that's what people want to see. We have a design in mind for some more direct player involvement as well (in terms of blowing on the spark to get a flame out of it, introducing a bit of timing to the whole thing) but not sure we'll get to that in the next iteration.

Yes, Yes, Yes!!!

It's like you guys are tapped into my brain.

[accurize2]

Maybe different types of tinder offer varying modifiers to the chance of success of getting the fire started. For example, twigs would be VERY low while pine sap would be much higher.

I just noticed this part also. Sort of building off what I was saying about skill level and overall health condition playing into the odds of success. Like Paul said, It might be nice to have different tinder, with different success rates. But then also make them easier or harder to collect. This way if someone has a low fire starting skill they have to search extra long for some tinder that will help them the most.

If someone has a high level of fire starting skill, then they can pretty much use any valid tinder with good odds of success... so their experience will be a reward in that they don't need to search quite as long.

Just ideas... Luckily, I don't have to program these fantasies into a game as my job. Otherwise, me, my wife and my crawling tinder bundle of joy would probably starve.

[TattooedMac]

I wanted to find out the definition of tinder so went to the only place to guarantee the whole truth - Wikipedia.

Please check the last material from this definitive list.

Materials commonly used as tinder:

Dry pine needles, leaves or grass[3]

Birch bark

Dead, standing (usually one season old) goldenrod

Cloth, lint, or frayed rope (if made from plant fibers and not treated with fire retardant)

Char cloth

Cotton swabs, tampons

Paper, paper towels, toilet paper, etc.

Dry bread or knäckebröd and shoe polish

Punk wood (in the process of rotting) or charred wood

Some types of fungus (best known is the amadou or horse's hoof fungus)

Bird down

Small twigs (poor tinder but commonly available)[4]

Fatwood, also known as rich pine or pine knot.

Fine-grade soap-coated steel wool

Shaved magnesium or other alkaline earth metals[5]

Babies

And in the Northern Territory of Australia, NSFW[spoil]Buffalo Shit[/spoil] :mrgreen:

[Axios]

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And in the Northern Territory of Australia, NSFW[spoil]Buffalo Shit[/spoil] :mrgreen:

Even in Don't Starve is used for fire...

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Please Devs, consider to add more options for tinder or a forage for twigs.

And sorry for duplicate post here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1297&p=7724#p7724

[joseph_kang]

Ah, babies... The forest is loaded with them.