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Loboloco

So...all the wolves in TLD are loners?

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No big point to make here other than I guess it was a conscious decision to make the wolves in the game loners.

This animals are by normal rules pack based and seldom bark ( mostly juveniles will do ).

Not that I want to be attacked by a pack of wolves in TLD.... talk about a "game over man...game over".

:mrgreen:

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Having said this it's not that uncommon for two or more wolves to chase the same animal, just that once one of them catches it the other(s) default back to their patrol state.

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Noted a few times (out on the bay) what seemed to be wolves responding to a pursuit call from another wolf. Have seen as many as two running toward a third that was hunting a deer or rabbit. Maybe they were all just running at the rabbit, but it seemed like the others were running to the pursuer instead.

That would be a powerful mechanic. Wolves pursue other wolves who make pursuit call within xxx distance measurement then feed together. Clear area by chasing game into it. Multiple wolves attacking character would probably be just a cut scene of them playing tug o war with your intestines...

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Multiple wolves attacking character would probably be just a cut scene of them playing tug o war with your intestines...

That's the reason, why they aren't wolf packs in the game (yet?). You can survive two wolfs in quick succession, but two or more at the same time is endgame.

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I'm always interested to read threads that revolve around wolf packs. It's been brought up a couple of times, but usually ends with players deciding it would be too deadly or too awkward to deal with.

How do you guys picture encounters with packs? I feel like this thread is a bit more about seeing a pack stalk you -- which would be awesome, but how do you guys imagine you'd be able to defend yourself if multiple wolves actually managed to attack you, and how do you visualize the actual encounter playing out on screen, apart from having individual attacks one right behind the other...Or is that the only way?

Tell me! I love hearing your ideas about stuff like this.

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How do you guys picture encounters with packs? I feel like this thread is a bit more about seeing a pack stalk you -- which would be awesome, but how do you guys imagine you'd be able to defend yourself if multiple wolves actually managed to attack you, and how do you visualize the actual encounter playing out on screen, apart from having individual attacks one right behind the other...Or is that the only way?

Tell me! I love hearing your ideas about stuff like this.

You saw it in the video Bill posted. They're just too good hunters in comparison to us, punny humans :)

I see only few options how to defend yourself against a pack. Avoid it, shoot them, preferably with rifle to try to scare them, or have some fires around you. Hand to hand combat can't be winning situation for you, if you have one wolf on the back, few of them attacking from the sides and one or two in your face.

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I'm always interested to read threads that revolve around wolf packs. It's been brought up a couple of times, but usually ends with players deciding it would be too deadly or too awkward to deal with.

How do you guys picture encounters with packs? I feel like this thread is a bit more about seeing a pack stalk you -- which would be awesome, but how do you guys imagine you'd be able to defend yourself if multiple wolves actually managed to attack you, and how do you visualize the actual encounter playing out on screen, apart from having individual attacks one right behind the other...Or is that the only way?

Tell me! I love hearing your ideas about stuff like this.

If a pack of wolves - let's say more than 2 - attacked a human in a Winter wilderness and got him into a "handfight", that would probably be it. Buttt... why not play with the fear of that happening? I have been wishing for a long time that wolves should have a more complex behaviour and be less predictable. That would make them a lot scarier in my view. What are they up to? You don't know! That's reason for concern.

As things are, they react more or less like robots, they are very easy to predict. They see you from a cartain distance, they come running. You sneak up on them from behind while they are feeding, they don't sense you. You get very close, they sense you. And so on.

I would love it if each wolf had a number of variables that determine its behaviour - like hunger, stress, fear, pain etc. If a wolf does not suffer from anything, it will be curious and careful. Spotting the player from even a large distance, it would maybe just pause and watch and then pursue some other business. Or it would approach and follow the player for a while, but in a stealthy manner. You know how animals do that, they follow somebody, but try to stay close to cover. And when you turn around, they will stop moving and try to duck behind something or stay behind a tree and look around it. It would be so awesome if wolves could follow you around in this manner in the game - I for sure would become paranoid and look behind me much more often. Imagine spotting a wolf hiding behind a tree, watching you - that would be sooo creepy. What is it up to? Is it hungry? How long has it been following me? Is it just this one, or are there others I cannot see right now? Are they already drawing a circle around me?

Now if the wolf becomes hungry - just hungry, not desperately hungry - it might start toying with the idea of taking a closer sniff at the player. Maybe it would approach, growling, but still careful. Trying to assess whether or not the player is easy prey. An already existing game mechanic could come into play here - with the wolf approaching if the player faces away and backing off if the player turns to face it. Now two wolves could engage in some encircling - each wolf would try to approach the player from behind. That would force the player to find a place with the back against a wall or tree for protection.

At this point, a decoy would come in handy. The wolves are not very hungry, and 1 kg of meat would suffice to distract them. It would be cool in that respect if we could not only drop the decoy where we stand, but if we could throw it somewhere (like a flare). Curiously, the wolves would go for it and then spend some time eating (or even fighting over it). Time for the player to get away.

Another way to drive the wolves away would be to increase their stress/fear or pain level. A gunshot into the air (or into a wolf) could work wonders. It should be a simple system which could result in complex phenomena. For example, shooting an arrow into a wolf would raise that wolf's fear and pain level. The wolf would yelp with pain, and that in turn would increase the fear (though not the pain) level in other wolfes close by. So if two wolves or even more of them threatened and approached the player, an arrow into one of them might drive away the whole pack... unless... :twisted: their hunger level was too high.

Now I have suggested this in the past, but I will suggest it again, because I think it's a really good idea: The hunger level of wolves should increase over time. This can be steered just by raising the variable as time passes. Or - better, but more complex - by making wolves hunt and still their hunger on the map. And then wildlife could gradually become scarcer and scarcer. This would make it more difficult for the player to find food, while at the same time increasing the risk of conflicts with wolves.

In an ideal scenario, I imagine it could work like this: At the beginning of a run, the player will hardly be harrassed by wolves, as the wolves start out with a low hunger level and wildlife is abundant. The player must now make use of his time - gather resources, set up bases, craft better clothes, find & craft weapons and ammunition. In this early stage of the game, wolves can even become something like a hunter-companion. The player might see wolves taking down a deer or scavenging a carcass and might boldly demand his/her share - just stepping up to the carcass (better not be wounded or injured, wolves "smell" weakness), knife drawn. This would raise the wolves' stress/fear level temporarily, and if their hunger is low, they would jump away, growling and barking, then circling around some 10 meters off. Grrrr, graurrr... the player would have a short period of time to grab some meat from the carcass, but not for too long and not too much. Because while he/she is cutting away on the carcass, the wolves realize that maybe the threat is not so great as it first seemed. Their fear/stress level drops, and hunger might take over. Of if the player takes everything while the wolves are still hungry, they could become angry (aggression might be another parameter for their actions). So all in all, the player would be able to "steal" some meat from wolves, and they would let him. Hunter-companion.

This might also happen the other way round - when the player has hunted an animal, nearby wolves might approach and circle the feast, growling. The player could then a) slice some meat off the carcass and throw it to the wolves to appease them (and lower their "hunger bar") or b) just take some meat and leave the rest to the wolves (they would only become really angry if the player doesn't leave anything for them). Hunter-companion.

Now as wildlife and food becomes scarcer, this companionship would break up. Wolves would now become a dangerous enemy, a competitor for much-needed food. Confrontations would become more frequent and stressful, and at some point the player would have to fight wolves over carcasses. Wouldn't that be the toughest survival scenario? Fighting wolves in desperation over the scraps of an already half-ravaged carcass...

The whole thing would make the game much more dynamic, as there would be a "hunger progression". This would also give the player a sensation of pressing time - he/she would have to gather resources and prepare as long as there is still time.

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I'm always interested to read threads that revolve around wolf packs. It's been brought up a couple of times, but usually ends with players deciding it would be too deadly or too awkward to deal with.

How do you guys picture encounters with packs? I feel like this thread is a bit more about seeing a pack stalk you -- which would be awesome, but how do you guys imagine you'd be able to defend yourself if multiple wolves actually managed to attack you, and how do you visualize the actual encounter playing out on screen, apart from having individual attacks one right behind the other...Or is that the only way?

Tell me! I love hearing your ideas about stuff like this.

I could imagine quite well a whole pack stalking and trotting around you in large circles for a while. In the end, however, only one wolf - the alpha, it might be a bit bigger or have a different fur color - might finally attack you. If you wound the alpha (either by shooting or during a hand-fight) and it runs off, the pack follows him/her and leaves you alone. Same story if you scare the alpha away with a flare/torch. If you want to make your way out by dropping decoys, you would, however need to drop more than one decoy, e.g. three decoys (or, even better, decoys of the overall weight of 3kg). Such a change would make "walking" wolves more difficult for sure. ;)

So if you happen to run into a pack by chance while travelling, things wouldn't look very much different from now - just that the additional wolves circling around you would definitely fray your nerves and that you would need more meat to "buy your way out".^^

You wouldn't even have to create a new handfighting cutscene as actually still only one wolf would attack you.

On the other hand, if the whole pack has taken down a deer (e.g. because you chased the poor buck into them), all wolves - and not only the alpha- might try to defend their catch. So it would be a really poor idea to chase a pack away from their kill, at least unless you have a flare or torch in your hand.

This change would also have the nice side effect to make deer-wolf-combo shots a bit more difficult.*^^

Just as a side note: If you added a "circle around the player" movement pattern to the wolf and bear AI, this would most likely also solve the current problems with campfires being usable as mobile safety zones.

At the very least please give wolves & bears the ability to run around a campfire in a semicircle if you shoot them. ;)

* I assume for all of the above suggestions that both some lone wolves and one or two packs would exist in every map. Without any loners at all, wolf-deer-combos would be almost impossible to kill ofc.

Edited by Guest

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I must agree,that wolves have quite poor specter of behavior in game and are very predictible.Their wandering arround in normal walk position,with body relaxed and head normaly high,makes them look uninterested at enviroment.

What I would like to see is more nervose behavior.After all,geomagnetic storm caused changes in wildlife AI.I would like see them sudden changing their activities,fleeing for no reason,barking,howling....sometimes they would charge at player with blind anger,not having fear of anything(rifle,flare,torch,campfire),other times just flee far away,yet sometimes just observing from far and stalking with interest.

There are already formed groups of three wolves in some areas.What I would like to see at those "packs" is unpredictible behavior.Wolves are socialised animals,so most of time they would communicate between themselves and work as a team.That means,if one wolf would sense player or other pray,he would bark and so drag attention of other two wolves and together they would try to encircle their pray or corner it.If they would successfull corner player/prey,the one,who spotted it first,would attack,other two would just watch outcome of their mate`s attack,following fight with their growling.That would be behavior,changed by geom.storm.

Other times it would be created sudden tension and nervose between this"pack" and they would attack each other.

Also bear should chase wolf and deer,sometimes get them,sometimes not.For now,bear is just a wandering calorie bomb,nothing else.I would like to see him standing on his feet and strip branches or tree barks.As well I would like to see some holes in frozen rivers and ponds where animals would come to drink water.I find it beautyfull feature having animal AI dropping and raising its head to simulate drinking water.Player could then sneak up behind deer(mostly) and shoot it.

However it is...animals in game needs to show more affection coz of geom.storm,more unpredictable and nervous behavior.How to make that...I leave that all to Hinterland team imagination. :) Untill now they were constantly impressing us,so i have no doubt,that they would make impressive changes at current AI. :)

Edited by Guest

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How do you guys picture encounters with packs? I feel like this thread is a bit more about seeing a pack stalk you -- which would be awesome, but how do you guys imagine you'd be able to defend yourself if multiple wolves actually managed to attack you, and how do you visualize the actual encounter playing out on screen, apart from having individual attacks one right behind the other...Or is that the only way?

Given the extremely, ridiculously aggressive implementation of wolves, I picture lighting a flare, that unmistakable, gunpowdery, new year's smell, the aftertaste of sassafras still in my throat and coating the inside of my cheeks, cold saliva pooling at my wisdom teeth, high on caffeine and painkillers, wolves circling as I'm turning the bottle upside down, setting on fire the kerosene soaked purple lace dotted with white cherries and applying the entire thing to the face of the closest wolf. At the moment of impact I'd start screaming, turn upside down another bottle and chase after the first wolf I see to send it to Gehenna and trample it. Porcupine quills, wood splinters, fishing hooks, thumbtacks, razor blades and pieces of barbed wire sown into my outer layer. Whatever doesn't manage to run away I'd impale on spot and call the place fang forest. My feet would be wearing serrated crampons.

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I would LOVE to see wolf packs very rarely, like a "boss fight" of sorts. I think that the way to survive them is either to kill one of them, which hopefully scares the rest off, or (and this one I think i the more likely to succeed) you make an escape with a flare or torch. Flares wouldn't scare them away when thrown (and wouldn't protect you from the others), but it would be them trying to surround you versus you trying to keep them all to the same side of you, while backpedaling to safety. You would need to carefully manage your sprint, because one of the wolves would occasionally make a break for your backside, and you would need to sprint for just a second to keep him near his pack, all the while brandishing the torch as needed and getting to safety.

Sounds awesome and terrifying, to be honest.

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Am I misunderstanding? I run into 2-3 wolves together all the time now, especially on CH. Have not gotten into a fight with them (stealth), but definitely a small pack together.

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Am I misunderstanding? I run into 2-3 wolves together all the time now, especially on CH. Have not gotten into a fight with them (stealth), but definitely a small pack together.

No you're definitely right, I see them all the time in "groupings", and if you get all of them interested in you it's quite dangerous. But the difference between what you're experiencing and what we're discussing is a matter of behavior. Your 2-3 wolves have no clue of each other's existence, whereas a pack of wolves will work together (encircling, feigning attacks, etc). You can see this because when a wolf becomes interested in you, he will bark and snarl clearly within audible range of the others, but they all go on struttin' like their buddy doesn't need help.

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^^ Pretty much the above.

It doesn't really matter that the wolves all stand around in groups, now. They still behave as individuals. You get attacked by one at a time, right after the other.

VS a "real" wolf pack: you would have one making a lot of noise (snarling, barking, being agressive, etc), from in front of you, while the other two slip around to the sides. If you deal with the one in front, you are still getting flanked. If you turn to the sides, you are still getting flanked.

Something like that would make the wolves MUCH more "intelligent", and therefore, much more dangerous, realistically so. Right now, so long as you are careful, you can "peel" wolves out of a larger group to deal with them one at a time.

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I've already had several encounters with wolf pack in this game.

The first time I was at the Train Loading Area harvesting deer carcass, then one wolf came from the direction of the Logging Camp, the other came from the direction of the Hydro Dam. I was not afraid when the first came and quickly lit a fire between the two of us. But the second came and stopped two yards away from my right hand making me really nervous, so I took out my rifle and shot it. To my surprise, the first one did not flee, so I shot it as well.

The second encounter happened in the Unnamed Pond. Also havesting deer carcass. This time I just sat behind the campfire, wathching. After about 30 seconds, the one from my left attacked me, and while I was fending it away, the one across the fire was just barking. When I got up, I saw a third one coming over from the hill. So I did not hesitate this time and shot the wolf across the fire. The third one fled quickly as soon as it heard the gun shot. Then I decided to harvest the wolf carcass as well. Right after I harvested it, the third one came back and was charging at me, and I quickly took out rifle and gave it a headshot.

The third time I was not so lucky. I was also at the unnamed pond, but I was armless. Two wolves found me and began chasing. I lit the torch, and ran to the hill top which turned out to be a bad idea, for I soon found myself in an dead end. I turned around. The two wolves had circled around me. Right at this moment, a blizzard came and the torch went off. One wolf jumped me, and I fought it back. Second came and I also fought back. With only 14% condition left in the middle of a blizzard, I did not make it to the Trapper's Homestead.

The last encouter happened at the hillfoot of Jackrabbit Island. This time it was an intentional hunt. I lit a campfire nearby and with a torch I drew the attention of all the wolves nearby. As soon as they stopped by the fire and started barking, I gave each of them an arrow in the head. I took me an entire day to harvest all the carcasses. What a lovely pack of calories. :D

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