Wolf hunger and packs

[Harshsabre]

I think wolves should have hunger. So if they were full they would not attack unless you threatened them. If they were starving they would attack other animals and you from farther away. Lets say a wolf attacked a deer, then he would be full. A rabbit would not completely make him full.

Also packs of wolves Should be able to take down bears. You would be able to find a pack of 3 maybe 4 wolves rarely.Please consider this, I think it would make the game more realistic.

[random calliope]

I've been watching the wolf behavior around bears. So far I've seen a few wander toward a bear then immediately run away when they are within awareness range.

I've seen three wolves patrolling the hay field in PV, and two together between the islands on CH.

Since the update there was a default three wolves around the gas station. The player can keep this level down by killing them, but they eventually respawn one at a time. When the bear comes around they run.

I have expected to see what OP is describing and would ponder getting into the middle of the feast if I was hungry enough, which I sometimes am. So I am in agreement.

[zerke2001]

I completely agree with hunger and packs. I have been thinking about how wolf respawning has created unfair/unrealistic behavior.

In my opinion wolves should spawn in dens using them as their home. This way a realistic approach is created so that tracking and hunting make more sense. Day/night cycle behavior make more sense since they are physical creatures that have needs too. I am already under the impression that the idea of the den is being used by the crashed train cars near Mystery Lake and others as previously mentioned.

I am assuming they pop in and out of existence in bad weather so actually keeping track of their hunger, warmth, physical location would give a new and realistic dynamic especially when humans or bears attack them. a.k.a. Some are weaker and easier to kill than others. Heck, you could even apply a similar approach to deer and rabbits.

What do you guys think?

[sir ice]

I vote yay on this. the pack thing especially!!!!

[danicusrex]

+1 I'd really like to see a pack of wolves here and there.

It would work well with the suggested spear addition, too. While you're fending off one wolf, the others are doing their pack-hunting thing and trying to encircle you. It could create a REALLY tense situation.

[Pyro]

This is an interesting idea. I think this could be expanded upon whereby during the day you may only see solitary wolves wondering about but, during the night, they are more prone to be out there in packs. It will make the night cycle way more scary.

[IcyWolf]

I can't remember from where I read this, but I think the dev team did mention that the geomagnetic activity also influenced animal behaviour, altering wolf's packing nature, it also makes them way more aggressive towards human than their real life counterparts.

[SkilsToPayBils]

+1 I'd really like to see a pack of wolves here and there.

It would work well with the suggested spear addition, too. While you're fending off one wolf, the others are doing their pack-hunting thing and trying to encircle you. It could create a REALLY tense situation.

I hereby like this suggestion.

[EternityTide]

I think a quote from A Song of Ice and Fire is particularly pertinent here:

when the cold wind blows, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives

~ Eddard Stark

Lone wolves don't last long in the winter. hence I think as well as finding ravaged deer carcasses, we should find the occasional frozen wolf carcass, especially after a long, cold blizzard.

[AmericanSteel]

I am all for wolves have more realistic behaviors, which means they will be the most active at dusk and dawn. It also means there may be a few scattered about, when they see food they are going to alert the pack. Stay in one place to long after a long, hungry howl and you could find yourself having to deal with 4, 8, 12 animals instead of the loner. Of course, killing one or two with a rifle would put the pack on their heels... if you had a rifle. Might take killing more than a couple with a bow to get the point across that they are the prey here, not you.

[sir ice]

I can't remember from where I read this, but I think the dev team did mention that the geomagnetic activity also influenced animal behaviour, altering wolf's packing nature, it also makes them way more aggressive towards human than their real life counterparts.

interesting. as humans and wolfs share a similarity of community, maybe thats why humanity didn't last long and humans (such as the player himself) feel no pity for other humans...

[sir ice]

+1 I'd really like to see a pack of wolves here and there.

It would work well with the suggested spear addition, too. While you're fending off one wolf, the others are doing their pack-hunting thing and trying to encircle you. It could create a REALLY tense situation.

I hereby like this suggestion.

no... spears are too unrealistic.

[danicusrex]

no... spears are too unrealistic.

Are you seriously claiming that one of the simplest weapons in the history of the world is too unrealistic?

The Clovis hunters in the Ice Age used spears to great effect, there's no reason they wouldn't still be useful today.

[octavian]

no... spears are too unrealistic.

+1, agreed.

[danicusrex]

no... spears are too unrealistic.

+1, agreed.

Please explain your stance. There is a reason primitive man used spears, they're simple to make and effective.

[octavian]

It's just too much. There's already a very strong primitive macho man Randy Savage vibe.

You can one-shot an animal a fifth of the map away IF the arrow hits the right spot but the rifle is completely useless at any distance longer than, what, twenty meters?

I don't understand this approach.

Mackenzie crashes and immediately commences to craft bows and spears and just happens to be the spearhead of human "survival". Come on :roll:

You're telling me in extreme emotional and physical distress you'd use a spear? What are you? Roman spear legion? :lol:

Erm, no. You'd just use a rifle, if anything would get closer than fifty meters you'd shoot it's face inside-out, you just wouldn't take the massive risk of hand-to-hand combat. And have a molotov cocktail in your pocket. The only things missing to make and use them effectively are bottles and lighters or stormproof matches, the first two of which, in the grand scheme of things, are extremely common.

[danicusrex]

Yeah, I'd use the rifle, absolutely. But once the bullets run out, what do you use for defense? You don't want animals coming right up on you within biting range, so you make a stabbing weapon with some reach. That "wolf vs knife" situation should be an "everything else has gone wrong" moment.

And yes, after thirty days in the wild, I'd imagine the "trauma" would have worn off and you could think clearly enough to craft items to keep yourself alive.

I've never crashed my plane in the Canadian wilderness, but I've spent enough time hiking and camping long-term in the forests of Quebec to feel confident I'd know what to do if the s**t hit the fan.

And frankly, a spear is so much easier to make than a bow. There is literally no reason not to make one, even if you use it mainly as a walking stick.

[TWM]

You're telling me in extreme emotional and physical distress you'd use a spear? What are you? Roman spear legion?

I'm telling you, in any survival situation where I'm being attacked by wolves all of the time, I'd want a defensive tool to keep those animals as far away from me as possible. And if my ammo is limited, hell yeah I'd widdle a spear together.

I'd use that thing as a walking stick as well.

[danicusrex]

I'd use that thing as a walking stick as well.

Great minds, haha. High five.

[octavian]

I'm having trouble to see how anyone who ran out of bullets would put their lives in the hands of a tool they never used and never made, except maybe out of sheer desperation. And even then, I'd still pick a molotov cocktail over a spear, in a world where you can start fires on allegedly deep snow. But that's just me thinking too hard.

And wolves don't respawn in real life, there's also that.

In any case, we agree to disagree.

[AmericanSteel]

I'm having trouble to see how anyone who ran out of bullets would put their lives in the hands of a tool they never used and never made, except maybe out of sheer desperation. And even then, I'd still pick a molotov cocktail over a spear, in a world where you can start fires on allegedly deep snow. But that's just me thinking too hard.

And wolves don't respawn in real life, there's also that.

In any case, we agree to disagree.

Some people have used knives in a kitchen, but that does not make them knife fighters. Swinging an axe at an inanimate log does not make one Gimli either. In these types of survival situations experience is the only teacher you have. If we, as a species, did not take the tool approach we would still be picking bugs out of our fur out on the savannah somewhere. We started out with simple tools because they were effective and are still effective.

I find it hard to believe you would try to use a molatov cocktail over a spear, when glass does not tend to break on snow. Gonna be kinda hard to spread. Still unsure how you plan on lighting it. Sure you could use a match... but we all know how fickle the weather is. Sounds like a very limited survival tool (though a tool none the less). I would take ANY tool to as a method of force protection. If I could manufacture a tool that gave me force protection and reach, I would be making it. Funny how the survival experts put out in Naked and Afraid commonly make spears (to lethal effect), but I have only seen a barely functional bow made once out of 80 odd episodes.

I think you are thinking to hard

[octavian]

@AmericanSteel:How do you see them working? You craft it and auto-equip it during a struggle like the already available weapons? Then it's literally useless.

I have shown that with the same scripted user input a struggle can end with you having 100 condition or 30 something condition. Do you want a spear that's just a value added into an equation?

And to what end? Give you a massive bonus? Do you feel wolf encounters need a larger bonus than already provided by the knife? Are wolves a threat as of .258 so that you require additional firepower?

Do you equip it and wait for the dumb wolf to impale and insta-kill itself with it? Do you jab it at the wolf? Then the entire struggle mechanic has to be scrapped and something else put in its place. They already have something because they tested this kind of standard FPS mechanic but they found it lacking and not fitting their vision.

The bigger question, what is the game lacking that a spear is required, except the spear itself?

Between the rifle, bow, hand-to-hand, where exactly does the spear fit in? If you can survive just fine basically forever with what's already in the game, what point is there for a spear? I don't get it.

[danicusrex]

Immersion. Realism. I don't look at this like a game, more like a survival simulator. And letting a wolf jump on you in order to fight it is an unrealistic way to fight an animal.

Thus, I want something melee oriented that doesn't involve letting wolves get right up in my face.

[Boston123]

no... spears are too unrealistic.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No wilderness survival training/experience, I see

In a situation like TLD, where I crash-landed in a strange environment with hostile wildlife, literally the 3rd thing I would do (after finding shelter and building a fire) is make some sort of polearm. I have no reason not to, and plenty of reasons to do so.

1) Self-defense

2) assistance in walking through deep snow and on ice

3) Pushing back vegetation

4) hunting

Tell me, what do you do when the rifle bullets run out? Go and fist-fight the wolves? Spears are fast to make, easy to make, and easy to use. Jab with the point to keep the hostile animal off-balance, and therefore, away from you and unable to charge/attack. Most predators will leave if you make yourself enough of a pain in the ass, but if it persists, stab it right in the torso and RUN. Problem solved. It will probably 1) be too injured to follow, or 2) too injured to care

Oh, and this game seriously misrepresents just how difficult it is to make a bow and arrows, at least, a set that is powerful and accurate enough to actually hit and kill things. I make bows and arrows, and in a survival situation, I wouldn't build them. They take too long. With a spear and a set of bolas, I can kill every animal in the game, probably with relative ease (bear included)

As for the "Molotov cocktail in the pocket" thing: yes, I am TOTALLY going to waste valuable fuel and a match, for a weapon that WON'T WORK (the bottle will just skid along the top of the snow) :roll: . I hope you recognize just how foolish of an idea that is.

[Aduron]

The bigger question, what is the game lacking that a spear is required, except the spear itself?

I'm kind of torn on this question. I'm mostly in the "I want spears" camp, for realism purposes, but wolves are already not a huge issue for me, and I'd rather they not get "easier" by having another way to kill them quickly. In fact, now that sprinting is a thing, I typically just sprint away, and I tend to get too far for them to follow me. Torches are plenty for me.

Maybe if wolf packs (like, actual working-together wolf packs) were added to the game, then spears should be too. A spear would be indispensable to keep them from surrounding and closing in. I agree with... everyone here, actually. Were I in this survival situation, I would absolutely make a spear (and I'd try to make a bow, too). But as I play the game, I just don't feel like a spear is needed, and would change the way the game feels.