Wolf Attack - TAP A BUTTON?? Seriously?!!!!

[Lamoi]

Not that the Wolf Attack mini game was great, but at least you had some degree of control ......

So who thought changing it to simply mashing the button repeatedly was better????? 'Tap the A button' has to be one the most used, most contrived, boring, redundant mechanic in gaming history. And it reaks of a developer who has run out of ideas or is being lazy when they use this Mechanic.....

Please address this - either change it back or make it better.

:cry:

[DrMembrane]

I'd like to weight in on this, I honestly really prefer this. The previous thing was convoluted and was very difficult as a new player, and is awkward, handmotion-wise as you have to take both your hands off the keyboard and put them on the mouse. Unless you want first person combat, I think this is actually better as the previous motion felt kind of unnecessarily obtuse. Now i'd get why you'd dislike this sort of thing if it were supposed to simulate skilled combat, like a swordsman or soldier, but this is a person, on his back, on his frantically punching/stabbing a wolf in the face, the frantic, rapid button pushes simulate the frantic rapid blows pretty well, especially as the dev's said they didn't want combat to be a focus of the game, and therefore adding too many mechanics there would tend to put too much focus.

However, what I do thing is that the point, in the abstract, being brought up, is a good one. If you simplify the mechanic too much, it abstracts the action and breaks the immersion, so devs, if you want to go minimalist on the mechanics, maybe focus on adding more sound and visual effects to the wolf attacks ora vary them from attack to attac. I haven't seen multiple one's post-update, but I know pre-update the repetitiveness of the sound and animation hurt the immerson.

[TorQueMoD]

I'm with the OP... tap a button is a terrible way to fend off wolves. @DrMembrane - you use two hands on a mouse? WTF! Try left finger on LMB and middle finger on RMB and just alternate between them. Anyone using both hands is definitely going to have problems. Granted I also agree with you that the previous system was convoluted and obtuse and terrible for new people. Neither system works really. Need to come up with a new way to handle this. What's wrong with tap the left mouse button to swing your hand/knife/axe etc. and hold the right mouse button to push the wolf away with your left hand?

[Espiritdecorp]

To be honest I think this may be a bit better in the long run. Yea its a bit overused and in a survival kinda game button mashing is kinda taking you out of the immersion experience. BUT in a game that has so much in it and give you more then enough to think about and remember having something simple to fend yourself with seems better in the long run (though that's not to say that I don't have a few gripes myself about some of the updates in the new patch) but as it says its going to be tweaked even more so they may think of something better once they have more bugs fixed and more gameplay ideas implemented till then I'm happy with a button mash to save me from a wolf lol

[Denyo]

I would like to give my oppinion about new wolf fighting mechanics.

I think with this new mechanics,developers main purpose was to drag our focus and attention away from wolves and to make us be more aware of nature and habitat itself,with all its dangers.Wolves are too long main thematic of this game and almost 98% issues and disscussions is only about wolves.As devs stated very early,they wanted to make wolves just a part of danger,which wilderness can offer,not to make fighting against wolves game.

New mechanics are simple,but outcome from fight is not that friendly for player anymore.You cannot kill wolf instantly at spot anymore and you can get multiple injuries and medical affects.All that just to enlight players,that is better to avoid wolves,than to get into fight with them.Even if they are charging you,you can choose to not fight with them.We have drop decoy possibility from previous updates and now we can even outrun wolf with new sprinting mechanics.Stamina there is not put just for no reason.You must very carefull choose,when to save your sprinting and that should be for only very dangerous situations,when you are cornered and there seem to be no way to avoid wolf attack.

So,once again...my oppinion is,that devs just wanted to make us to think twice,if it is worth to enter combat with wolves,when consenquences are really bad.When we need meat or wolf pelts,we have ranged weapon to hunt them and that should be enough.I praise this new mechanics as with them devs really achieved desired.Wolves should concern as big treath,so they should be avoided as much as it is possible.Fight with them should be last choice or when there is no other way to avoid it.

[Scyzara]

The previous thing was convoluted and was very difficult as a new player, and is awkward, handmotion-wise as you have to take both your hands off the keyboard and put them on the mouse.

How on earth are you using your mouse? :lol:

It's no problem at all to press lmb with your forefinger and rmb with the middle or ring finger of the same hand.

I think with this new mechanics,developers main purpose was to drag our focus and attention away from wolves and to make us be more aware of nature and habitat itself,with all its dangers.Wolves are too long main thematic of this game and almost 98% issues and disscussions is only about wolves.As devs stated very early,they wanted to make wolves just a part of danger,which wilderness can offer,not to make fighting against wolves game.

Yeah, I guess that's the main reason for the change. Given the amount of new players who had severe problems to figure out the wolf-fighting mechanics, the system probably needed some simplification.

However, I also have to agree with the OP that smashing lmb doesn't feel interesting at all. By taking away the charge&release mechanics from the hand fighting system, it lost all the (little) depth it ever had. Well, while I can certainly live with lmb smashing, I unfortunately can't really approve of it from a game design point of view.

It would be great if we could get a system in which pressing only lmb can get the job done and fend off a wolf (thus new players can focus solely on lmb) while using additional buttons with the right timing might give you the possibility to kill the wolf on the spot (= an option for experienced players). Well, one may dream.^^

The increased importance of post-fight debuffs on the other hand is definitely a step into the right direction in my opinion, I like this particular change very much.

[exeexe]

You can fight with the left click, then when the wolf comes in with an attack (you take continuously damage as you do now), an attack animation starts and you can block it with right click. You cant left and right click both at once. Then if you blocked all the wolfs attack you dont need to use antiseptic after the fight.

How about such a change?

Also i think some change needs to be when there are 2 or more wolves around you. Like you fight one wolf but take passively extra damage from the 2nd wolf. The extra damage doesnt have to be full damage. Then maybe if you manage to fight off the first wolf there is a chance the 2nd wolf will run away too.

[octavian]

Tap Tap Tap

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[DrMembrane]

First off, I want to defend my mouse technique, I can tap much faster like that (might have to do with being left handed) and I keep not being fast on the right mouse button when I used one hand. But when I did the two hand thing I would get off a wolf attack with possibly as little as 40 or so damage, maybe less.

Secondly, I think the idea was to slim down the mechanics of he wolf fighting because I think they, rightly, thought wolf fighting was getting to be too big a part of the game.

[Lamoi]

Don't get me wrong I didn't think the previous system was great. But this new system is sooo brain dead, it's like seriously, could no one think of a better way to fend off wolves than 'tap A' repeatedly!!! It's rubbish.

Personally I'd like to to be able to put the knife and axe in my hand and to be able to attack with it, and have a simple dodge or side step move...

But the old system was better than this new one. I agree it was poorly explained and I died the first couple of time before I read on the forums how to do it!

[Kaisentlaia]

You cannot kill wolf instantly at spot anymore

Actually, you can. I don't know exactly how, but I did kill a wolf on the spot just outside the camp office on my latest playthrough (stalker). Maybe luck?

Anyway, I think this new fight mechanic is less cumbersome, easier on new players and it gives you that frantic feeling of "I don't know what I'm doing but if I keep hitting blindly at it maybe it will go away" without making you think about building up force for the next hit and calculating the amount of damage you are dealing. If a wolf or a big dog would attack me IRL this is exactly what I would do, kick and punch randomly to try and get it off me. Since this is not a FPS in my opinion this is a good compromise.

[Spottdrossel]

I think with this new mechanics,developers main purpose was to drag our focus and attention away from wolves and to make us be more aware of nature and habitat itself,with all its dangers.

So you think they intentionally made one part of the game extremely dull and mechanic ("Push button, receive beacon") to have the other parts appear more attractive?

Somehow I find it hard to believe that that's what they had in mind.

[SteveP]

I haven't yet tried the new fighting interface however, the abundance of wolves and their propensity to attack makes combat an inevitable part of the game. It is at times, the only method to obtain food for survival as using arrows for defense without fire is nigh impossible.

Is this going to make wolf combat more deterministic? or require some degree of skill or dexterity? I like the approach of requiring logic and coolness such as allowing attacks from different angles and with different weapons and slowing the entire process down.

I agree that the problem of facing two wolves or more is very problematic. The use of fire has become essential so lantern fuel and accelerant seem to be quite important. I don't know if the wolf attack can interrupt fire making but without accelerant dicey.

Luring wolves toward fire seems to be a bit chancy as they can move fast.

Is there a change in bear attack/defence?

[SteveP]

How about making the wolf disengage for a moment after a strike? this could provide more variety!

[SteveP]

I have also noticed in the past that there seems to be an advantage in attacking downhill, the height advantage. The wolves also seem to maneuver toward hills during approach.

It would be great to have a forum entry describing fully each of the animal attacks and defenses. :-)

[signal]

You can get torches for free from a fire now, so that's another cheap way to fend off wolves if you don't want to shoot it or fight it. With torches and decoys, there's really no reason to fight a wolf unless you surprise one that is eating.

[Jytton Lames]

I hate quick time events and button mashing, it feels too "gamey" and takes away from an otherwise marvellously immersive experience. My 2 cents would be to try something like the combat system in The Witcher 1 - you click to attack and when you get a visual and audio cue (e.g. Geralts' sword glints and you hear ching!) you click again to string attacks. Only one button needed, simple but tricky to master. You (Hinterland Heros, Devs of Destiny) could make it need a more precise timing the more fatigued the player is to simulate that "I'm gonna die" feeling more acutely. I think this would fit well, because even when you master it, a surprise wolf attack - say when you're running away from a bear attack - would still fluster you and make it harder to get into the rhythm required to live. Also, I miss the little medical bag with the stuff neatly arranged, again more immersive. Why do you think I play with ice cubes in my socks?? Love the update otherwise, wood, sprinting (ah, S.T.A.L.K.E.R.), can't believe you guys made it prettier, wow.

[DrMembrane]

James, the thing was, the medical bagbefore was really obtuse and bad interface-wise, immersion shouldn't give you a headache because annoyance at the game interface is really immersion breaking, I like this one much better.

Next, again, I really think the frantic button presses are the best option for capturing waht you're really doing, frantically punching/stabbing at a wolf while trying to get it off you, you're a bush pilot on your back, wildly punching at a wolf, not Geralt the monster slayer, and I think all the people who are saying there should be more finesse to it are kinda missing the point.

[bethany]

We appreciate the feedback on these UI changes and new mechanics. The wolf combat was definitely simplified in favour of the number of new players we see die repeatedly with no idea how the old combat system actually worked. The biggest change (in my mind) is what happens after the attack with injuries and afflictions, and I think that's definitely positive change. The chance to survive and recover after a wolf attack has increased, and as someone that's a little too brazen around wolves from time to time, I'm happy to see that. I do understand that most of the feedback here is about the actual fight mechanic though, and I've noted that. I personally favour it over the old mechanic, but I understand how something being a bit simplified if you had a firm grasp on the old system to begin with might be a bit jarring at first.

[Jytton Lames]

James, the thing was, the medical bagbefore was really obtuse and bad interface-wise, immersion shouldn't give you a headache because annoyance at the game interface is really immersion breaking, I like this one much better.

Next, again, I really think the frantic button presses are the best option for capturing waht you're really doing, frantically punching/stabbing at a wolf while trying to get it off you, you're a bush pilot on your back, wildly punching at a wolf, not Geralt the monster slayer, and I think all the people who are saying there should be more finesse to it are kinda missing the point.

---------------------------------------------------

I still prefer the bag, looks like a standard RPG menu screen now - not sure what you mean by obtuse, you had a red injury on your body section and a green highlight on what you needed to use in the cute (immersive!) bag. I think we (or Hinterland Super Devs maybe) could meet in the centre over the main issue. A new player mashes the button to get rid of the wolf, lives. An experienced player has noticed that if you click when the wolfs fang glints and it says "Growarwoo" you do more damage, maybe kill it. I like what you said about wildly punching a wolf/not being Geralt, but after 150 hours in the game you've done this a lot, you ARE a bit like him - "The Wolfer". Maybe a slow "wolf bashing" skill increase could give you more and more cues as you put in more hours. In a survival situation (Ray Mears says) it's usually the person who keeps a clear head and thinks quickly who lives, so maybe you missed the point for late game as I did for early game. Sorry to be so verbose but I love that people can disagree on this forum without "yo mama" etc, very refreshing.

[nicko]

off topic maybe but this is why I love playing pilgrim mode (easy mode). I use the wolves to hunt meat for me! I never kill the wolf or bear and always leave a bit of meat on the carcass for them to come back to eat. == awesome!

[Scyzara]

Actually, you can. I don't know exactly how, but I did kill a wolf on the spot just outside the camp office on my latest playthrough (stalker). Maybe luck?

I've observed the new handfighting system a bit more now and can confirm that wolves definitely can be killed on the spot occasionally. However, I completely fail to understand how to increase your chances for this to happen.

Moreover, it doesn't seem to matter much how fast you click, both the damage dealt to the wolf and to yourself seems to be randomly generated.

I've fend off wolves with maybe five (rather slow) klicks on some occasions and didn't lose more than 10% condition during these attacks. Another time I was smashing lmb like mad for at least 25 real life seconds (no idea, at least 75-100 lmb clicks alltogether probably) and still could hardly fill up the damn bar. When the wolf finally ran away, I had lost 75% condition during the fight and received multiple ailments - including bleeding, a sprained wrist and two infection risk debuffs. And I have completely no idea how I should have done better. "Click faster" obviously isn't the solution any more.^^

So my best guess is that it's completely random now how much damage (and which ailments) you receive during a fight. Also the duration of the fight (in rl seconds) seems to be rather independend from how fast you click. You can chase away a wolf with 10 slow clicks within ten seconds and receive 10% condition loss if you're lucky or you can click 50 times within 20 seconds and the beast still won't let go of you.

[McGuffin]

what could be interesting, is a skill attached to fight. (like fire/repair etc...)

Each time you fight a wolf (and dont die) you gain +1% bonus added to the weapon bonus, with a cap @ 50% (or less)

[random calliope]

I'm no expert on these things, but it seems that if the goal is to simulate laying on your back with a wolf trying to chomp on you then LMB=left punch, RMB=right punch (or stab) and both plus a shove forward to try to push it off you seems like a fairly intuitive, wolf-specific and therefore TLD specific, non-complicated fight mechanic. I totally understand that this game isn't about combat and why. This and perhaps a swift, well timed kick to the face just before it has you on your back could be added without turning it into a combat game. I'd rather avoid the wolves but sometimes they're between me and what I need to survive.

[Fluffy]

I like the new damage system, but not the new wolf fight mechanics.

I just don't understand what I'm supposed to be doing, or whether anything I do really has an effect. If it's all random, then please take away the additional information on-screen (hit strength bar, weapon condition?). As a new player I understood the 'old' system after the first few attacks, but I'm still confused about this system.

I'd prefer a basic two-button system with 'attack' and 'block' which depend on timing and weapon effectiveness (condition + type). A wolf will run away and survive or, more rarely, die after a certain amount of damage is done. Until that point, you have a chance to be damaged in some way that accumulates with each wolf bite, and the damage can be random.

I quite liked the cut-scene where you get back on your feet, and then finding my backpack items strewn all over the place, as though I'd been savaged. That was a nice feature that made me smile