Spear?


Lamoi

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Given that I haven't found any maple saplings yet - I was wondering if the inclusion of a spear might be something you could make to at least have a chance at keeping wolves at bay?

......? I mean if I was out in the wilderness, I think I'd be able to get a big freakin stick at least to wack something with!

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In reality, a spear would be literally one of the first things I made, after finding shelter and making fire.

1) self-defense

2) hunting small and large game

3) assisting in travelling through snow and across ice

You can make a fire-hardened wooden tip, or (what I would do) sacrifice a knife-blade to get a sharp metal tip.

A wooden crosspiece lashed/drilled below the spearhead will prevent animals from moving up the shaft to you.

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A wooden crosspiece lashed/drilled below the spearhead will prevent animals from moving up the shaft to you.

But then you couldn't kebab rabbits on it :o

What? The spearhead is clear of any obstruction. The crosspiece is to prevent a wolf or bear from just impaling itself to get at you.

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A wooden crosspiece lashed/drilled below the spearhead will prevent animals from moving up the shaft to you.

But then you couldn't kebab rabbits on it :o

What? The spearhead is clear of any obstruction. The crosspiece is to prevent a wolf or bear from just impaling itself to get at you.

Er, I don't follow. Why would them impaling themselves would be a bad idea? I was imagining something along the lines, spearing a rabbit, pushing it down to the middle of the pole, then spearing another, doing the same, and so on, until you have a rabbit-spear-kebab in this particular sense. Instead of putting the rabbits in your pockets and backpack. And then a wolf comes and you fail to spear it because you have rabbits on your spear affecting its handling :? :lol:

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1) The spearhead is only so long

2) If you keep the weight of a rabbit on the end of the shaft, you are essentially preventing yourself from using the spear due to the loss of balance

3) It is really, really cruel to impale the rabbit and let it slowly die on the end of the spear. Stab it, pull it off and break its neck.

Why would you make a 'rabbit-kebab"?

Unless, of course, your posts were made as a joke. In which case, it wasn't particularly funny

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Adding a spear might upset the game balance if it is too easy to take out wolves with it. I like that it would be a reusable way to repel wolves and perhaps recover scavenged meat. I think if the wolves had a tactic for dealing with spears so that skill were required to master the spear so I'm not sure if a spear would be something used during a wolf fight or more like a torch to ward them off? Perhaps a bit of both?? Perhaps larger wolves don't scare easily while smaller ones do.

The search for a weapon and the need to hunt for it drives the player to take risks and adds to game excitement IMHO. I just wish it was a little easier to checkpoint and make progress without risking death and the need to start from fresh each time. Replaying the early game parts gets repetitive.

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Adding a spear might upset the game balance if it is too easy to take out wolves with it. I like that it would be a reusable way to repel wolves and perhaps recover scavenged meat. I think if the wolves had a tactic for dealing with spears so that skill were required to master the spear so I'm not sure if a spear would be something used during a wolf fight or more like a torch to ward them off? Perhaps a bit of both?? Perhaps larger wolves don't scare easily while smaller ones do.

The search for a weapon and the need to hunt for it drives the player to take risks and adds to game excitement IMHO. I just wish it was a little easier to checkpoint and make progress without risking death and the need to start from fresh each time. Replaying the early game parts gets repetitive.

No, a solid spear-thrust will kill any and every animal on the North American continent. No stupidity like the .303 rifle requiring TWO SHOTS to kill a wolf.

The spear is balanced in and of itself by requiring you to get relatively close to the animal: either to stab it, or allowing it to charge you. If you miss in either of those cases, you are probably screwed. The animal is going to be too close for you to pull out another weapon, so you are gonna have to fight it off with your bare hands.

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I've never needed two shots with the rifle to kill a wolf. I think you're right about the spear balancing itself by proximity requirements though. You should be able to throw it too though with a very low starting skill level which increases somehow allowing you to throw further and straighter.

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I've never needed two shots with the rifle to kill a wolf. I think you're right about the spear balancing itself by proximity requirements though. You should be able to throw it too though with a very low starting skill level which increases somehow allowing you to throw further and straighter.

The rifle takes two shots to kill a wolf when aimed at the body. One shot to the head. A .303 rifle can kill ELEPHANTS, for Christ's sake. It should be able to blow through a wolf's chest cavity with zero issues.

As for the spear, again, preferably not.

In a real-life survival situation, I would not be throwing my spear. for a multitude of reasons.

1) you are unlikely to hit the animal. Even if you do, you are unlikely to give it a mortal wound, and it is just going to run off, undergoing severe suffering. Bad, and you lost your spear

2) you are likely to damage the spear. A wooden tip, even when fire-hardened, can break, and if you use a spare knife-blade, that is a valuable tool you just broke

3) You just threw away your weapon. Even though you have to "get close" to an animal to use a spear, "get close" could still be 7+ feet away, AKA outside of retaliation range, especially with a crosspiece attached. By throwing the spear, you just disarmed yourself, especially when you piss the animal off by hurting it. Remember, like all weapons, but especially "primitive" ones, spears kill via blood loss. You stab it (preferably in an area like the lungs/heart region), then hold it in place until it dies. BY throwing it, you might have given it a mortal wound, but it will now have time to maul your defenseless butt.

In reality, I wouldn't use a spear by itself. I would use a throwing (aka "rabbit") stick to stun the animal (believe me or not, a 2 foot long heavy piece of wood thrown at something can break bones and stun even the largest of animals), or a set of bolas (

) (which are also under-appreciated as a survival "weapon". Easy to make, easy to use, and effective on literally any animal that has legs) to snare the animal and prevent it from running away.
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I like the idea of adding a spear to the game but don't want to make it too easy! "Balance" means the game has enough difficulty to make it interesting yet not overwhelming on either the wolf side or the player side. The developers sometime refer to this as "tuning".

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If you want something to throw, how about an atlatl? These are small spears or darts which can be thrown with great force but requires considerable skill to master. In real life survival, my spear would simply be a long sharpened stick just to fend off predators that are not too serious.

I wonder how many new features we can hope for in the current game. I've heard an interview that suggests the game is so popular that they are planning sequel follow up games in other seasons. :-)

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If you want something to throw, how about an atlatl? These are small spears or darts which can be thrown with great force but requires considerable skill to master. In real life survival, my spear would simply be a long sharpened stick just to fend off predators that are not too serious.

I wonder how many new features we can hope for in the current game. I've heard an interview that suggests the game is so popular that they are planning sequel follow up games in other seasons. :-)

Atlatls require just as much skill to use as a bow.

Again: With nothing more than a long sharpened stick, you can kill any animal in North America

To be rather honest, I am still rather ... upset (to use the polite term), that the devs decided to insert bow-crafting into the game. I've made bows, and arrows, and I would not try to build one in a situation where I am cold, wet, and hungry. They take a lot of skill, knowledge (especially of physics. Yes, actual physics), and time to make. Same thing with the arrows. Much less practice to the point where you actually feel comfortable hunting with the damn thing.

In the amount of time it would take me to craft a bow, some arrows, and practice enough to be comfortable with it, I could make a spear, some bolas, a club, and be eating varied animals for a while.

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I've never needed two shots with the rifle to kill a wolf. I think you're right about the spear balancing itself by proximity requirements though. You should be able to throw it too though with a very low starting skill level which increases somehow allowing you to throw further and straighter.

The rifle takes two shots to kill a wolf when aimed at the body. One shot to the head. A .303 rifle can kill ELEPHANTS, for Christ's sake. It should be able to blow through a wolf's chest cavity with zero issues.

As for the spear, again, preferably not.

In a real-life survival situation, I would not be throwing my spear. for a multitude of reasons.

1) you are unlikely to hit the animal. Even if you do, you are unlikely to give it a mortal wound, and it is just going to run off, undergoing severe suffering. Bad, and you lost your spear

2) you are likely to damage the spear. A wooden tip, even when fire-hardened, can break, and if you use a spare knife-blade, that is a valuable tool you just broke

3) You just threw away your weapon. Even though you have to "get close" to an animal to use a spear, "get close" could still be 7+ feet away, AKA outside of retaliation range, especially with a crosspiece attached. By throwing the spear, you just disarmed yourself, especially when you piss the animal off by hurting it. Remember, like all weapons, but especially "primitive" ones, spears kill via blood loss. You stab it (preferably in an area like the lungs/heart region), then hold it in place until it dies. BY throwing it, you might have given it a mortal wound, but it will now have time to maul your defenseless butt.

In reality, I wouldn't use a spear by itself. I would use a throwing (aka "rabbit") stick to stun the animal (believe me or not, a 2 foot long heavy piece of wood thrown at something can break bones and stun even the largest of animals), or a set of bolas (

) (which are also under-appreciated as a survival "weapon". Easy to make, easy to use, and effective on literally any animal that has legs) to snare the animal and prevent it from running away.

I agree with pretty much everything here, throwing a spear is probably best left to the hunting tribesman not stranded bush pilots. So lets hit something with your rabbit stick and then stab it with a spear.

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If you want something to throw, how about an atlatl? These are small spears or darts which can be thrown with great force but requires considerable skill to master. In real life survival, my spear would simply be a long sharpened stick just to fend off predators that are not too serious.

I wonder how many new features we can hope for in the current game. I've heard an interview that suggests the game is so popular that they are planning sequel follow up games in other seasons. :-)

Atlatls require just as much skill to use as a bow.

Again: With nothing more than a long sharpened stick, you can kill any animal in North America

To be rather honest, I am still rather ... upset (to use the polite term), that the devs decided to insert bow-crafting into the game. I've made bows, and arrows, and I would not try to build one in a situation where I am cold, wet, and hungry. They take a lot of skill, knowledge (especially of physics. Yes, actual physics), and time to make. Same thing with the arrows. Much less practice to the point where you actually feel comfortable hunting with the damn thing.

In the amount of time it would take me to craft a bow, some arrows, and practice enough to be comfortable with it, I could make a spear, some bolas, a club, and be eating varied animals for a while.

I'm not grumpy about the bow, but otherwise, +1 to everything here.

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If you want something to throw, how about an atlatl? These are small spears or darts which can be thrown with great force but requires considerable skill to master. In real life survival, my spear would simply be a long sharpened stick just to fend off predators that are not too serious.

I wonder how many new features we can hope for in the current game. I've heard an interview that suggests the game is so popular that they are planning sequel follow up games in other seasons. :-)

Atlatls require just as much skill to use as a bow.

Again: With nothing more than a long sharpened stick, you can kill any animal in North America

To be rather honest, I am still rather ... upset (to use the polite term), that the devs decided to insert bow-crafting into the game. I've made bows, and arrows, and I would not try to build one in a situation where I am cold, wet, and hungry. They take a lot of skill, knowledge (especially of physics. Yes, actual physics), and time to make. Same thing with the arrows. Much less practice to the point where you actually feel comfortable hunting with the damn thing.

In the amount of time it would take me to craft a bow, some arrows, and practice enough to be comfortable with it, I could make a spear, some bolas, a club, and be eating varied animals for a while.

I'm not grumpy about the bow, but otherwise, +1 to everything here.

Oh, believe me, I am. I literally made a "WTF really?!" face when reading the update list. It was almost physical disgust. And when I actually got around to making the thing, my fears were confirmed.

Bows, AND arrows, are not easy to make They, unless you already have one with you, are quite simply not practical to make in a "survival situation.". Every "survival game" and their mother almost always includes a "survival bow", and they ALWAYS skip over just how difficult they are to make.

If the devs included a not-insignificant-chance for the bow to EXPLODE into splinters after drawing it for the first time, I would be happy. All of this would be dependent on your "repair/crafting skill", of course.

I've had more than one bow explode in my hands when testing, as a result of .5mm too much wood removed on a limb, or microfractures in the sapwood, or a whole multitude of things I did wrong. Get one of those splinters in your eye, and you will not be happy at all.

Bow-making is an ART, not a science, and the only way to get good at it (and, by proxy, make bows and arrows that are powerful, accurate, and fast-shooting) is to try and fail. Probably more than once.

In a survival-situation, you wouldn't have the time. Neither for actually making (straightening, shaping, seasoning, tillering, etc) the bow, or the arrows (straightening, cutting to the proper length, ensuring they all weigh the same, nocking, fletching [which is a PITA when you don't a machine], etc), much less actually being proficient with it, enough to hunt with.

It took an average of 10 years of training for medieval English archers to be "skilled enough" to use a bow. And this was just "volleying" arrows into a beaten-zone, much less actual accuracy at a single target.

As an archer, and someone that builds his own bow and arrows, give me a spear and bolas every time. Or, a rifle/firearm. Even a smoothbore blackpowder musket is easier to use and more versatile than a bow (and, more accurate out to a farther distance. A smoothbore musket can hit a 3in group at 100 yards easily, so long as it is loaded "properly" Good luck doing that with a bow). There is a reason, after all, that 99.9% of the Native Americans dropped "traditional" weapons, like spears and bows, like hot potatoes as soon as they got access to firearms.

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I've never needed two shots with the rifle to kill a wolf. I think you're right about the spear balancing itself by proximity requirements though. You should be able to throw it too though with a very low starting skill level which increases somehow allowing you to throw further and straighter.

The rifle takes two shots to kill a wolf when aimed at the body. One shot to the head. A .303 rifle can kill ELEPHANTS, for Christ's sake. It should be able to blow through a wolf's chest cavity with zero issues.

As for the spear, again, preferably not.

In a real-life survival situation, I would not be throwing my spear. for a multitude of reasons.

1) you are unlikely to hit the animal. Even if you do, you are unlikely to give it a mortal wound, and it is just going to run off, undergoing severe suffering. Bad, and you lost your spear

2) you are likely to damage the spear. A wooden tip, even when fire-hardened, can break, and if you use a spare knife-blade, that is a valuable tool you just broke

3) You just threw away your weapon. Even though you have to "get close" to an animal to use a spear, "get close" could still be 7+ feet away, AKA outside of retaliation range, especially with a crosspiece attached. By throwing the spear, you just disarmed yourself, especially when you piss the animal off by hurting it. Remember, like all weapons, but especially "primitive" ones, spears kill via blood loss. You stab it (preferably in an area like the lungs/heart region), then hold it in place until it dies. BY throwing it, you might have given it a mortal wound, but it will now have time to maul your defenseless butt.

In reality, I wouldn't use a spear by itself. I would use a throwing (aka "rabbit") stick to stun the animal (believe me or not, a 2 foot long heavy piece of wood thrown at something can break bones and stun even the largest of animals), or a set of bolas (

) (which are also under-appreciated as a survival "weapon". Easy to make, easy to use, and effective on literally any animal that has legs) to snare the animal and prevent it from running away.

I think the whole point of the spear, is not to throw it, but to fend off wolves... I imagine it would be quite difficult to kill a healthy agile wolf with an improvised spear, but one might be able to keep the wolf at bay so much so it might retreat!

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Again, no.

With little more than a sharpened stick, you can quite easily (all things considered) kill any and every animal on the North American continent

Wolves are not magical creatures that require a lot of damage to kill. Take a sharp stick and stab it in the ribcage. Boom, dead wolf.

The spear "balances" itself, in the fact that if you fail to connect, or let the animal get within "the reach" of the spearpoint, it is effectively useless. It doesn't need to be nerfed to unrealistically low damage to be included.

If you connect, the animal is dead. If you miss, you are screwed Boom, balance done.

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Allow for a little creative license, maybe. The only way you get to spear is if you have knife. The game already simulates melee for players who have knives having the advantage over wolves. The only reason to die from a wolf attack while holding a knife is you are already below 50% health or you have no melee skills. Seems fair. If you want to believe that part of that melee advantage is because you a pointed stick then let it be so.

Bow and arrow, same. After gathering many scattered materials and tools, you are able to wield a hand powered, lethal, short ranged missile weapon that isn't entirely accurate and requires some skill to fire. Hooray! Play on...

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Allow for a little creative license, maybe. The only way you get to spear is if you have knife. The game already simulates melee for players who have knives having the advantage over wolves. The only reason to die from a wolf attack while holding a knife is you are already below 50% health or you have no melee skills. Seems fair. If you want to believe that part of that melee advantage is because you a pointed stick then let it be so.

Bow and arrow, same. After gathering many scattered materials and tools, you are able to wield a hand powered, lethal, short ranged missile weapon that isn't entirely accurate and requires some skill to fire. Hooray! Play on...

yeah but if you have a knife already why not just use that in melee?

to me the only time I would arm myself with a hand made spear is if I didn't have another weapon such as rifle, axe or knife. else it really does seem pointless.

then again maybe we have some descendant pike men lol.

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Allow for a little creative license, maybe. The only way you get to spear is if you have knife. The game already simulates melee for players who have knives having the advantage over wolves. The only reason to die from a wolf attack while holding a knife is you are already below 50% health or you have no melee skills. Seems fair. If you want to believe that part of that melee advantage is because you a pointed stick then let it be so.

Bow and arrow, same. After gathering many scattered materials and tools, you are able to wield a hand powered, lethal, short ranged missile weapon that isn't entirely accurate and requires some skill to fire. Hooray! Play on...

yeah but if you have a knife already why not just use that in melee?

to me the only time I would arm myself with a hand made spear is if I didn't have another weapon such as rifle, axe or knife. else it really does seem pointless.

then again maybe we have some descendant pike men lol.

A spear gives you longer reach than a knife or an axe. Using a knife/hatchet means you have to get up-close to the animal, AKA get within biting range.

Using a spear means you can stay 5+ feet away, AKA out of biting range.

Come on, man, this is literally Stone-Age stuff. What would you choose: get up close and personal, or stay away from the angry wolf?

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I'd love a spear. It's my favourite weapon in H1Z1 (people constantly complain that it's OP, and I'm like "it's a spear, there's a reason it was the most prolific weapon in history until the invention of gunpowder")

Re: the bow. I understand bows are complicated. But I think Long Dark deals with them better than some other games. Take H1Z1. I can make a bow in the first minute of the game with my torn up shirt and two sticks. That's silly.

Long Dark, I need to particular types of sapling, which I need to cure. I need to find feathers, gather scrap metal and cure gut as well. It's something I need to do once I'm safe and settled. Not a spur of the moment invention.

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I'd love a spear. It's my favourite weapon in H1Z1 (people constantly complain that it's OP, and I'm like "it's a spear, there's a reason it was the most prolific weapon in history until the invention of gunpowder")

Re: the bow. I understand bows are complicated. But I think Long Dark deals with them better than some other games. Take H1Z1. I can make a bow in the first minute of the game with my torn up shirt and two sticks. That's silly.

Long Dark, I need to particular types of sapling, which I need to cure. I need to find feathers, gather scrap metal and cure gut as well. It's something I need to do once I'm safe and settled. Not a spur of the moment invention.

Actually, in all seriousness, the "H1Z1 starting bow" is the most realistic "survival bow" I've ever seen in a game before. EVER. It just is a different "type" of bow than what most people think of when you say the word.

Specifically, it is called a "bundle bow", and all they are is literally sticks bundled together and strung, like in these videos.

Easy to make, fast to make, and they don't really require any knowledge of woodworking or physics. They just have short range, little power, and fall apart/break down really quickly. This would, realistically, limit the bow for use on small game. I was quite impressed when I saw a "bundle bow" in H1Z1. Most people don't know what they are.

I would much prefer if TKD's bow was a bundle bow. It just plain makes more sense.

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Huh. You learn something new everyday. That's interesting cheers.

Though I imagine H1Z1's bundle bow is overpowered compared to a real life one. Bagging deer and headshotting zeds. The next stage up bow though is still silly, twine, cloth and a stick.

Plus the arrows being made from branches, with no cutting tool required, no fletching or metal heads.

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