Higher pack value after each 15 days?

[Ikaris]

Just a thought,

After two weeks, or a month and so forth, on a high protein diet with lots of exercise, our character would be a bundle of muscle mass.

(If they did the eat hibernate thing, maybe not.)

They would be able to lift and carry more and actually be much healthier without the "spare tire/beer gut".

This could be a 5kg per month effect up to 3 months where it plateaus for a month or two and then declines unless you eat the right things.

[TremorH]

Yeah, been thinking the same thing. Most people can do 30kg so it's a good starting point, but as all your character does is eat, rest and use its body the strenght and therefor carry capacity should increase with time.

[Shanti]

What people can lift and what people should haul around while hiking / trying to survive are two very different things.

Delta Force try very hard never to carry more than 45 lbs (20 kg) total - both in pack and weapons, simply because larger loads lead to more injuries, and reduce your ability to cover long distances after days or weeks of walking.

66 lbs, or 30 kg is actually a ton of weight, and while carrying that much, running should be all but impossible for more than about 50 feet. I've been backpacking with 35 - 40 year old guys (on a school trip with their children), who start off all bluster about how much they can carry, and after mile 2, they are bemoaning the weight of their 50 lb pack, and asking how far it is to the camp site. Mind you, this is in the summer, in pleasant conditions, on a trail.

I think that if anything, the carry capacity should start out much, much lower. Especially if the weight of clothing worn by the character didn't count against it (it shouldn't, it should instead have a movement restriction / clumsiness effect). I think this new carry limit should really be more like 15 kg, and after a month or two, go up to 20. Encumbrance effects should really start there, IMHO.

Carrying more than that is certainly possible, but should definitely slow the player down, wear him out, and drastically reduce his ability to run, just like it already does now.

[Aelaera]

Just a thought,

After two weeks, or a month and so forth, on a high protein diet with lots of exercise, our character would be a bundle of muscle mass.

(If they did the eat hibernate thing, maybe not.)

They would be able to lift and carry more and actually be much healthier without the "spare tire/beer gut".

This could be a 5kg per month effect up to 3 months where it plateaus for a month or two and then declines unless you eat the right things.

While it's true you would start to gain a lot of muscle and drop a lot of fat (even an overweight bush pilot would find themselves rather trim by the end of a single month- simply due to the high caloric requirements in the cold as well as the amount of physical labor required to survive) as Shanti said, while you CAN carry more weight, it becomes drastically unsafe. Trying to carry 100lbs. across uneven terrain with heavy trenches of snow, slick patches of ice and large rocks would be insanely dangerous even for someone in peak physical condition. The more weight you carry, the higher the risk of damaging your body no matter how strong you are. A single slip on ice with a pack over 30lbs. could at best result in strains in your back, shoulders, neck or legs, so a 66lb. pack like we have right now is honestly ridiculous. The fact that the worst injury we can manage right now is a sprained ankle is also far more forgiving than real life, where broken bones or torn muscles, ligaments or exerted tendons would spell disaster for someone trying to survive.

[AmericanSteel]

I honestly don't like the idea. In basic training they started you with about a 15 lbs pack plus all your gear. BY the end of basic you were carting around the standard load of 35 lbs with a 12 mile road march on hardball in under 4 hours. I get to my regular unit and we start training to battle standard gear, which has a pure combat load (weapon, bullets and water) of about 20 lbs. You then added in the 35 lbs of gear in your ruck. I was at 172 lbs and 14% body fat coming out of Basic/AIT (20 weeks of training) and an 4 mile march on hardball in less than a hour was HARD. I eventually started taking my actually field weapon, which was an M60, and my combat load (which pushed about 40 lbs) + a 35 lbs ruck. After about a year I could do 12 miles in three hours on hard ball. It would smoke me like a cheap cigar.

We then when on a field exercise in Pinon Canyon, CO with our loadout and marched through the snow. Dropped down to like just over a mile an hour and complete exhaustion after an 8 hour march. We took 20 minute turns forging the trail (first two or three soldiers) and that was even harder. The next day we did a forced march of 20 miles with only a combat load. People were falling out like brown leaves coming off trees after about 4 hours. These were trained soldier who were experienced in hauling their mass around and still going through the snow was kicking our butts.

I am all for hauling around more gear, but I think there needs to be a breaking point. Right now we can't get "winded", it is just an exhaustion meter. I think anything over 20lbs should begin to impact how long you can walk/run without experiencing a faster stamina drain. Anything over 40 lbs should have a dramatic impact, with sprints measured in 10s of meters but really more running speed. Anything over 60 lbs, running will be a no go. Stamina drain should be very noticeable. You think you are running, but you are really just jogging a bit and it should whip your tail.

[TremorH]

66 lbs, or 30 kg is actually a ton of weight, .

I usually pack about 30kg. when I'm hiking/camping, sometimes almost 40kg including the weight of the back pack, and I'm not a big guy. I dont run around exploring with all that weight on, but I can quite easily hike for a few hours before I rest with 30kg. on. The spot I ferquent the most around where I live is about 5 km hike to get to with an 250-300m incline and I do that hike in 1,5-2 hours with about 30+kg. on. And as I say, I'm not a big guy and not exeptionally fit..

[Bill Tarling]

I usually pack about 30kg. when I'm hiking/camping, sometimes almost 40kg including the weight of the back pack, and I'm not a big guy. I dont run around exploring with all that weight on, but I can quite easily hike for a few hours before I rest with 30kg. on. And as I say, I'm not a big guy and not exeptionally fit..

Now try it in sub-freezing temperatures, without many supplies, trudging through snow, and bracing against painful windchills... and do it in just your regular street clothes... plus you can't just pause to rest just anywhere (unless you don't want to get up again)... The 30kg ends up feeling more like 120kg :shock:

It's far more brutal than most people realize, and not even remotely similar to a casual bad weather winter day in the city... and to make things worse, you're on your own with no chance for help, so even minor injuries could be fatal [at least the game lets you get over food poisoning or sprains quickly and easily - not quite the same IRL]

[TremorH]

Trying to carry 100lbs. across uneven terrain with heavy trenches of snow, slick patches of ice and large rocks would be insanely dangerous even for someone in peak physical condition.

That is very true, I didnt think of that. Getting really top heavy is not much fun.

Now try it in sub-freezing temperatures, without many supplies, trudging through snow, and bracing against painful windchills... and do it in just your regular street clothes... plus you can't just pause to rest just anywhere (unless you don't want to get up again)... The 30kg ends up feeling more like 120kg :shock:

I live in Norway mate Have been on hikes that went from +3 celsius and rain to -25 in a day and a half- frozen clothes- and still made it home healthy and with all my gear. I was alone, but I had my mobile phone, so wasnt in any danger. Dont wear cotton base layers, shoes, denim and vests when I'm hiking though, so you've got me there Not trying to come of as the son of the wilderness, I know that without my gear, clothes and supplies I would probably be screwed. I'm not keen on takeing the "drop me anywhere in th wild with only a magnesium stick" test.

[Bill Tarling]

I live in Norway mate Have been on hikes that went from +3 celsius and rain to -25 in a day and a half and still made it home healthy and with all my gear. Dont wear cotton base layers, shoes, denim and vests when I'm hiking though, so you've got me there Not trying to come of as the son of the wilderness, I know that without my gear, clothes and supplies I would probably be screwed. I'm not keen on takeing the "drop me anywhere in th wild with only a magnesium stick" test.

Know what you mean... I grew up in an area like in the game when I was a kid... all the adults avoided doing any running or even short hops as much as possible [too many injuries, and usually meant calling in a team of horses to sleigh them out of the bush]... Was always fun watching someone raised in the city show up for a "fun winter activity day" -- we just smiled and waved at the end of each day when they drove hope utterly exhausted (but wiser about the difference between city winter and bush winter in Canada). :lol: