to wood or not to wood

[exeexe]

I think there should be more decisions involved when it comes to gathering wood.

Here are a few examples how it can be harder to gather wood.

Can not gather wood on ice

Can not gather wood in a perimeter of 5 meter depth (or more?) around any structure containing an inside environment.

And to make it easier:

And then if u stand in a wooden area already maybe give it a bonus so it will be quicker to gather wood.

And then also i think when it is snowing it should be harder to make fire so that the chance of success will drop

[Whisper]

+1

Ruined houses is a best place to obtain(with bare hands too) and ice is worst.

[n00bas]

I agree. Gathering wood on my porch makes my life too easy =).

I always wonder how my character would be such an awesome splinter cell when I gather wood while I am standing next to a fire, confronting a wolf.

[TattooedMac]

And then also i think when it is snowing it should be harder to make fire so that the chance of success will drop

This is already a feature in the Fire Starting. As well as High Winds, Colder and as always depending on what you have to start the fire with.

Its not at first noticeable, but if you tested it, you would start more % of fires, indoors than out in the environment.

[Anelyn]

The idea is that when you're gathering wood, no matter of location, your PC is moving around looking / searching and foraging. Being at 30m from closest tree or standing right next to it makes no difference.

We don't need a game that is overly super complicated regarding minor tasks. There's plenty of stuff to worry about and keep track of already

[octavian]

You can sneak into a warm cubby-hole with little to no wind-chill and forage wood for hours from there, which isn't a good thing.

[exeexe]

Its not at first noticeable, but if you tested it, you would start more % of fires, indoors than out in the environment.

Thats because the fires indoors are placed in fireplaces or inside metal objects (dont remember the word) but they are attached to a chimney :lol:

[Shanti]

+1 to OP's suggestions.

To take it a step further, I think that you should ONLY be able to forage wood if you are within a certain radius of a tree. If you are in a cabin in the woods and the trees are only 1 meter away, then harvesting wood on your front porch kind of makes sense, but I dislike the ability to stand inside a fishing hut and cut hardwood.

Also, I think that harvesting wood should come with a danger of hurting yourself, perhaps based upon the game's difficulty. Harvesting wood in adverse conditions (dark, snowing, etc) or while tired, dehydrated or exhausted would also increase the chance of injury. Harvesting with a tool could reduce the chance, but increase the condition hit from the wound.

The word you are looking for is stove (the iron thing), or fireplace (often open, and made of stone).

[Majales]

If this will be implemented, then it will be possible no more to survive snow storms, when you are forced to stay under a bridge or elsewhere outside with two fires going. Because you will freeze to death before you can harvest enough wood to maintain fires. Or if you will be stranded in a fishing hut for longer period of time, then you will reach a point, when you must go outside to harvest wood. In a fog full of wolves or a snow storm? It's probably death sentence again. Atleast you will have ruined clothes. This definitelly decrease survival times and will greatly change exploration. I don't see this a viable option under current weather system.

[ChillPlayer]

Well it is strange though that you can forage wood without any harm while you are pinned inside a fishing hut by wolves that detected you and are waiting outside for a happy meal. This safed my life many times but it's not logic, it's as if you get an invisibility- and smell-removal-cloak while you go out foraging.

It could be fixed from a realism point of view but only if the time get's reduced that wolves are camping outside once they detected you. Some versions ago they waited forever, now it's roughly 24h but it should be only one hour or two, a blizzard should scare them right away back to their "den". This way no super-human-foraging would be needed

[Shanti]

If this will be implemented, then it will be possible no more to survive snow storms, when you are forced to stay under a bridge or elsewhere outside with two fires going. Because you will freeze to death before you can harvest enough wood to maintain fires. Or if you will be stranded in a fishing hut for longer period of time, then you will reach a point, when you must go outside to harvest wood. In a fog full of wolves or a snow storm? It's probably death sentence again. Atleast you will have ruined clothes. This definitelly decrease survival times and will greatly change exploration. I don't see this a viable option under current weather system.

My only response to this would be: Good.

Snow storms should be deadly. The whole point of the game is to show how brutal nature can be, and that the player must stockpile resources (including wood) in order to survive the harsh weather events.

I do agree that the current weather system needs some tweaking. I would love to see Hinterlands establish a "storm track" so we know that when the wind moves to the east and picks up speed, that there might be a blizzard on the way, or we might see the clouds rolling in from that horizon. With some more consistency (make 2 hour blizzards followed by 2 hour calm followed by 2 hour blizzard a rare and bizarre weather pattern, not the norm), predicting weather should become a fairly important part of the game, since it directly affects our ability to be outside.

[Majales]

Chillplayer, Shanti: I'm not against it, but under current circumstances it means changes in weather patterns and wolves and bears behavior. Probably only devs knows how big.

[Denyo]

I do agree that the current weather system needs some tweaking. I would love to see Hinterlands establish a "storm track" so we know that when the wind moves to the east and picks up speed, that there might be a blizzard on the way, or we might see the clouds rolling in from that horizon. With some more consistency (make 2 hour blizzards followed by 2 hour calm followed by 2 hour blizzard a rare and bizarre weather pattern, not the norm), predicting weather should become a fairly important part of the game, since it directly affects our ability to be outside.

There is already sort of "storm track" in the game for looooooooong time. It is just that many players simply ignore it,altough it was confirmed several times by devs,that this feature really serves its purpose.

What am I talking about? Crows,of course. If you observe birds,they are flying from side,where bad weather is comming from.Mostly that bad weather is blizzard or fog.It is not prediction of certain sort of weather,but it is enough clear warning,that weather will change to worse conditions.

So,if you see birds flying over the sky,they are not put there just for no reason.Everything in this game has its meaning,every small detail is put there for some reason.We must play game not only with our mind,but really with our eyes,ears and other senses.Not paying attention on sorroundings and observing are most of time causes for failure.

[Shanti]

Denyo, I have noticed that the birds do not fly in bad weather, but for me, the current implementation has several problems:

Crows will not fly when conditions are too windy, too cold, snowing too hard, a blizzard, or fog. However, depending on my gear, I may be able to be out in everything but the blizzard no problem. That means that when I see the crows flying away, I know the weather will change, but how much? how badly? Also, in my understanding, the crows react to weather conditions, not predict it. A blizzard is almost always proceeded by heavy snow, or high winds, so the crows leave when they hit their threshold for wind or snow. With good gear, my threshold is quite a bit higher. To illustrate this point, a surprise fog or blizzard will catch the crows in flight, just like me on the ground.

In reality, most places have storm tracks. Seattle (where I live) is actually quite complicated, because it's known as a convergence zone, but it still follows some basic rules. As an example, most of our wet, stormy weather comes from the SW, and more rarely, from the NW. If we are going to get snow, it's almost always from the NW, proceeded by cold wind and falling temperatures. A breeze from the East generally means sunny weather. There are always exceptions, but if you pay attention, and learn what the different kinds of clouds mean, accurate weather predictions for the next 4 hours are both fairly easy and accurate, and predictions for the next 8 hours can be made to the level of at least blizzard/no blizzard.

Contrast that to TLD. The horizon never shows cloud banks building (a clear indication of heavy snow to come) and building winds are as likely to die to nothing as they are to build into a blizzard. The wind dances around, and can shift a full 360 in an hour or two (which is unusual unless you are high on a mountain). Any wind direction can bring a blizzard (highly unusual, usually a coastal area has one cardinal direction where moisture comes from (ocean), and one that brings dry weather (inland). Rarely does the prevailing wind, and therefore a storm, come from the direction along the coast line.

TLD seems to generate the weather about an hour or two ahead of time, then uses a smoothing function to blend it with the current weather. Ever wonder why blizzards often run 2 hours, and rarely longer than 4? Why it goes from sunny and calm, to blizzard, and then back again, all in the space of 4 hours? I think it's silly, and easily solvable. We just need the three basic types of clouds scuttling across the sky, or building on the horizon. We need consistent storm directions, where building wind from that direction will consistently turn into a blizzard, or bring heavy snow fall. All I want is a more accurate weather model, so I can at least try to predict the weather more than an hour ahead of time. Then, when I ignore the signs, or once in a blue moon when a nasty, surprising, killer storms come out of nowhere, it's obvious that I either made a stupid mistake and ignored the warnings, or that life is simply not fair, and it may be time to curl up and fade into the long dark.

I guess my point is this: The devs have poured tons of hours into refining wolf AI so that you can predict their behavior. Need to escape? You have at least 3 options to do so. Want to fight? You can do that too. Has a wolf started chasing you? Have an audio clue or 3.

But the weather, the number one killer in a survival situation, that's going to remain completely, non-nonsensically, random. And to band aid that fix, we're going to allow you to chop fir firewood, in an ice fishing hut, on a lake. I don't know about you, but that seems backwards to me.

[TWM]

I do see a problem though: If you're in the middle of the ice, fishing for a couple of hours, and you get stuck because of a blizzard, eliminating the possibility of gathering wood will spell your demise, especially if that blizzard holds on for more than six hours.

I had blizzards going on all night long with me stuck in an ice fishing hut. Without the possibility of gathering wood, you'll freeze to death. And hauling 10-20 kgs of fir wood to the fishing hut beforehand seems a bit laboursome.

[n00bas]

I do see a problem though: If you're in the middle of the ice, fishing for a couple of hours, and you get stuck because of a blizzard, eliminating the possibility of gathering wood will spell your demise, especially if that blizzard holds on for more than six hours.

I had blizzards going on all night long with me stuck in an ice fishing hut. Without the possibility of gathering wood, you'll freeze to death. And hauling 10-20 kgs of fir wood to the fishing hut beforehand seems a bit laboursome.

So this means you need to prepare your actions . Can't believe I'm saying this but I would love to die in a fishing hut this way if I'm not prepared. You only need about 8 fir wood though and since I travel light I could bring them in one go. Really don't see a problem with that.

[Denyo]

I know,guys,every player in this game has his own experience.And his own approach to the game.I am happy for this topic,as there can be good disscussion ongoing and we all can learn much from each other.And we can speak up our point of wiew.

For me,personally,freezing and other conditions are not a problem for quite long time already.My approach to the game is that I try to learn as much as I can from Hinterland team,their notices and announcements,from other players and from my own mistakes.When I am in the game,I try to imagine,what vision Hinterland tries to give us and what is core of the game.

What concerns weather,I observe the sky all the time,I listen to the sounds of wind,sounds of nature,I observe crows and other wildlife.I try to memory certain repetative patterns,which can help me to get prepared for changes in advance.Not to predict-to prepare! For me,game gives me just enough indicators to be prepared to any kind of weather change and to find out fast solution,how to get myself out from that situation.It helps me alot,that when I explore fishing huts,i always forage wood there and leave full drawers of wood in every fishing hut. Same is for rest of buildings.

We just need to pre act and make ourselves emergency stuff in case of bad weather.We must predict,that we will be caught in middle of blizzard and that we always have somewhere to go and wait in safety bad weather to pass over.

[nicko]

I agree with denyo, it's not hard to pre-plan- takes some wood with you to a fish hut. stock up if you plan to fish a lot. or just fish for 1-2hrs at a time, stick you head out the hut look around, does is it look like its getting dark, is a storm coming?. if so run like hell back to your main camp

[selfless]

Hopefully no one is pulling for a "Lumberjack Simulator". Actual hatchet blows on individual trees return specific items of wood? Please, no.

[exeexe]

A lumberjack simulator would require a chainsaw plus a market where you could get rid of all the lumber so that is already out of the question since there is no chainsaws and a lumbermarket

[Bill Tarling]

A lumberjack simulator would require a chainsaw plus a market where you could get rid of all the lumber so that is already out of the question since there is no chainsaws and a lumbermarket

That's not what they meant... they don't want another game where you walk around chopping or punching every individual trees with a few hits on screen, then carrying around giant logs [as many of the games have you do] or clearcutting a forest area in a day... the stuff that is needed for the other games' mechanic, but wouldn't be suitable for The Long Dark [i.e. don't make it a 'Chopping Down The Forest To Make Empty Fields' type game]

[elloco999]

While I don't want to see TLD turn into a lumberjack sim a more realistic approach to foraging for wood would be nice. Right now, if you stand outside somewhere where you're shielded from the wind you can forage for wood for hours while not feeling the downside of that wind (as long as the wind doesn't shift direction that is). You can even light a fire and be warm and forage the whole day long without even getting cold.

Now I get that the abstracted way foraging works now is a design choice and I like it mostly. I would just like to see it expanded upon a little. The current system is supposed to simulate you going from your position to somewhere there is some fire wood to be found, find some wood and come back. That means I won't be standing next to that fire or in that shielded spot while I'm out foraging. The game should reflect that. As soon as you start foraging, I would like the game to simulate you moving away from your current position by no longer taking that building/ rock/ fishing hut that is shielding you or that fire you're standing next to into account when calculating your temperature.

Another change I would like to see is that the time it takes to forage for 1 piece of wood to increase depending on the distance you are from an area you might find wood. So if you're standing in the forest, it may take 20 min to forage 1 piece of wood while standing in the middle of Mystery Lake it may take 60 min to forage that same piece of wood.

I think these two changes to the current system would make it much more realistic and would add greatly to both the atmosphere and also the difficulty. Right now it is way too easy to collect loads of firewood.

[vimrich]

+1 on the concept, but maybe not so harsh.

For example, when on the middle of a frozen lake, it simply takes LONGER to forage the same amount of wood. This reflects that you have further to travel to get to the wood and then back again. Or, when in a wooded area, it takes a lot shorter time. They already have this mechanic with other types of harvesting, like getting meat is quicker with a knife, or when the carcass is not yet frozen.

[Shanti]

+1 on the concept, but maybe not so harsh.

For example, when on the middle of a frozen lake, it simply takes LONGER to forage the same amount of wood. This reflects that you have further to travel to get to the wood and then back again. Or, when in a wooded area, it takes a lot shorter time. They already have this mechanic with other types of harvesting, like getting meat is quicker with a knife, or when the carcass is not yet frozen.

I'm not a big fan of this. Traveling anywhere in TLD is dangerous, and where you stand while you harvest has a big impact on your condition when you are done.

Under this system, I can harvest wood for hours during a blizzard in the middle of the lake, but because I'm standing in a sheltered spot behind (or inside) a fishing shack, I don't freeze to death. I can even light a fire on the ice to stay nice and warm! In reality, crossing the ice and foraging in the woods should drop my condition and my clothing way more than they will degrade using this mechanic, not to mention that there may be a wolf patrolling between me and the woods, but because I'm using the foraging system, I'm assumed to make multiple trips back and forth without actually having to bypass the threat.

The harvesting meat analogy is perfect: you have to get to the location of the corpse, and harvest there. If that happens to be sheltered or not depends on where you choose to hunt, and you have to physically move there and get back home when you are done. I think this should be the same with gathering wood, except that you can gather wood anywhere near trees. In an open field, or the middle of a lake, the option should be grayed out and say something like: "you will need to get closer to an area with abundant wood to gather wood"

[AmericanSteel]

I have never agreed with the option of being able to gather wood from the safety of a shelter. If you are sheltered, then reclaimed wood should be it and there is a limit. Otherwise you need to go near the actual wood to harvest it (akin to butchering an animal). That said, some areas should garner more wood for less work, ie the log sort, train loading area, the wood fallen off the train, etc).

Just because you get caught with your pants down in a fishing hut, cave or bridge does not mean you should get a free pass. I think we all have juggled feeding the fire vs sleeping vs foraging. Sometimes poor planning = death. If you know you are going to fish, stock up on supplies. If you are going from point A to B, make a few resources caches and know how to get to them. It is not like the water or the wood is going to decay.