Can we have some organic food?

[EternityTide]

So don't buy Monsanto then.

If you disagree with Toyota's business practices, does that mean you'll refuse to buy all cars? No, that's silly.

I personally don't agree with the concept of terminator seeds, but since they aren't going on the market any time soon, why worry?

Just because you disagree with one Biotech company doesn't mean that the entire practice of GMO should be shunned.

Most of the time, people don't understand how genes work, let alone form a valid opinion on the merits of genetic modification. The point I am trying to get across is that people are always opposing change.

When the steam train was invented, people invented scare stories like "your face will melt if you go over 30 mph" because they opposed railways. When Maglev trains were proposed, people thought that the magnetic fields would kill you just by stepping over the track, despite the fact that the rails themselves are not magnetised.

[toebar]

To bring this back around on the topic even if the food had the terminator gene, it would still be roughly as nutritious as the organically grown equivalent.

[harobed1156]

Most of the time, people don't understand how genes work, let alone form a valid opinion on the merits of genetic modification. The point I am trying to get across is that people are always opposing change.

When the steam train was invented, people invented scare stories like "your face will melt if you go over 30 mph" because they opposed railways. When Maglev trains were proposed, people thought that the magnetic fields would kill you just by stepping over the track, despite the fact that the rails themselves are not magnetised.

I agree that there's a large anti-science contingent out there that frustrates me to no end, and I also agree (with Max Planck) that it takes a generation for a new scientific truth to become accepted. However, I reserve the right to be a bit cynical; questioning everything just comes naturally.

[coryduran]

Most of the time, people don't understand how genes work, let alone form a valid opinion on the merits of genetic modification. The point I am trying to get across is that people are always opposing change.

When the steam train was invented, people invented scare stories like "your face will melt if you go over 30 mph" because they opposed railways. When Maglev trains were proposed, people thought that the magnetic fields would kill you just by stepping over the track, despite the fact that the rails themselves are not magnetised.

I agree that there's a large anti-science contingent out there that frustrates me to no end, and I also agree (with Max Planck) that it takes a generation for a new scientific truth to become accepted. However, I reserve the right to be a bit cynical; questioning everything just comes naturally.

You might want to move towards a healthy skepticism rather than legitimate cynicism

[harobed1156]

You might want to move towards a healthy skepticism rather than legitimate cynicism

Word :lol:

[EternityTide]

oh no doubt about that. to quote Rene Descartes "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things."

I'm as cynical as they come, I just have a habit of putting on my game face on when I feel that an anti-science advocate is lurking nearby (I need a sword that glows blue when they are near)

I don't trust Monsanto as far as I can throw them, but that's my stance with everyone.

[Scyzara]

People react badly to "chemicals" because it is something they don't understand fully. To them it's magic, and they see the world divided into good and evil, when it is simply not the case.

Scientists who have devoted their lives to learning the mechanisms of nature get bashed by the public who think they know better, this being the same crowd who believe that nuclear reactors can explode like a nuclear bomb, and that fluoride in the water is actually the government trying to control the population.

This sums up quite well the current situation in Germany (and probably most of Europe) regarding GMOs. Some parties in the European and national parliaments spread so much bad propaganda against it (for political reasons) about 10 years ago, that 98% of the population nowadays equates "GMO" with "evil".

A local party once even used an election poster with the picture of a young girl eating an apple and the writing "My apple shall have no genes". I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Anyway, as I'm a biologist I once tried to convince my family (who are quite open-minded and well-educated people normally) that genetic engineering is merely a tool and as a such neither more nor less evil than e.g. a spade. I wasn't successful at all, they only believe me to be brain-washed by "pharmaceutical industries" (another favorite "evil" here^^) ever since then.

To cut a long story short: I completely stopped trying to defend GMOs, this horse is dead for Europe for at least the next 20 years to come. I just cannot stop to feel sorry for all those millions of disabled children in Asia that might have been saved by the golden rice project from Potrykus et al.

Regarding organic food: I'm buying this stuff as well, but not because I believe it to be more nutritious or healthy, lol. I just prefer to buy products from local farmers (when it's possible, not every tropical fruit grows here ofc) and most of them just happen to produce only organic food. They usually own WAY less land than most US or Chinese farmers and can only survive due to the higher prices they can charge for organic products.

I'm willing to pay these higher prices to support them, a whole countryside without any small farms would be a sad sight. Plus, being able to watch my future chicken breast fillets walking in their outdoor enclosure and over the farmyard digging for worms & picking insects is totally worth it.^^

@topic (TLD) : I don't see any benefits regarding the gameplay and would thus prefer the Devs to spend their time on more important matters than alternative item skins for organic products.

[Ninjakebab]

People react badly to "chemicals" because it is something they don't understand fully. To them it's magic, and they see the world divided into good and evil, when it is simply not the case.

...

This sums up quite well the current situation in Germany (and probably most of Europe) regarding GMOs. Some parties in the European and national parliaments spread so much bad propaganda against it (for political reasons) about 10 years ago, that 98% of the population nowadays equates "GMO" with "evil".

Unfortunately the broad public is incapable of judging what is good/necessary. There is a reason that skepticism towards GMO's, nuclear power, science and so forth comes from average Joes, and not scientists.

It is sad.

Anyway about the whole organic vs. conventional discussion, there was a recent study that concluded organic vegetables do actually contain more antioxidants - whether this is due to them being allowed to ripen more naturally, or other factors, this is how it is. I don't remember where I read it, but I'm sure it is easy to find.

AND back on topic: Just no. Organic is far from 100x more nutritious as OP says. The only implementation would be with the funny voiceacting like suggested earlier.

My point is basic: organic foods have such a negligible effect on health that they are not worth adding to the game. Perhaps as an alternative packaging, supported by some snippy commentary (like the character picking it up and saying "huh... looks like being nice to mother nature didn't stop her wiping us out").

Beyond that, there's nothing more to be said.

^ with this quote, I think this thread should close.

[exeexe]

"@topic (TLD) : I don't see any benefits regarding the gameplay and would thus prefer the Devs to spend their time on more important matters than alternative item skins for organic products."

No graphical change is needed. All one has to do is add (organic) to the title of the food. Like orange soda could become orange soda (organic) and that would be it...

I suggested organic food items with the aim that it would not be hard or take a lot of effort to implement since i knew the change to the gameplay would not justify it.

[Scyzara]

Unfortunately the broad public is incapable of judging what is good/necessary. There is a reason that skepticism towards GMO's, nuclear power, science and so forth comes from average Joes, and not scientists.

It is sad.

You might be very interested in this survey about how scientists on the one hand and "average Joe" on the other hand assesses the risks & benefits of different technologies.

http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/01/29/p ... d-society/

One of the core charts that sums up the most important aspects:

[Ninjakebab]

Awesome Scyzara! Thanks. Very interesting statistics.

[harobed1156]

Unfortunately the broad public is incapable of judging what is good/necessary. There is a reason that skepticism towards GMO's, nuclear power, science and so forth comes from average Joes, and not scientists.

It is sad.

The Golden Rice project has tremendous potential to improve the quality of life for millions, but it was the behavior of scientists that helped botch up its approval, more so than the "average Joe." Tufts researchers failed to follow project protocol on human experimentation and violated federal law at the same time, while they were trying to prove that the rice is wholesome, using children in China as test subjects.

While it's unlikely that the failures skewed the test results, they did call into question the ethics of the researchers. I have tremendous respect for science, having a degree in biochemistry myself. But scientists are human and sometimes humans do very stupid things.

[AmericanSteel]

My diet is Paleo. Switched over about 60 days ago. Dropped all processed foods. I have lost about 25 lbs so far and 18 points off my blood pressure. I actually cut out exercising during my first 40 day cycle to see what the results were. Truly amazing actually. Fatty Coffee FTW. Just started my second 40 day phase looking toward more fat loss and dropped another 2.5 lbs my first week. It is a life change and I plan on living it.

All that said, I would eat whatever I could get my grubby hands on in a survival situation. Organic, free range, grew in a box, GMO, non-gmo, pesticide free, dusted off pesticides before I ate it, growth hormone be damned. If I can live long enough to ponder the long term health effects, then it is a win for survival. Statically about 20% of people put in a survival situation will die because they choose not to eat certain foods. Maybe the nay-sayers in this thread are simply the vocalization of that 20%.

[Ikaris]

All that said, I would eat whatever I could get my grubby hands on in a survival situation. Organic, free range, grew in a box, GMO, non-gmo, pesticide free, dusted off pesticides before I ate it, growth hormone be damned. If I can live long enough to ponder the long term health effects, then it is a win for survival. Statically about 20% of people put in a survival situation will die because they choose not to eat certain foods. Maybe the nay-sayers in this thread are simply the vocalization of that 20%.

Literally drink the blood from the dying animal for calories if you are starving. or save it for black/blood porridge mixed with those odious granola bars, or some tree barks if starving.

If you are in the situation portrayed in The Long Dark and want to survive, you kill, gather and eat anything you can.

(Even the frozen "long pig" we see here and there. You might leave the pieces frozen somewhere safe until desperate, but then, chop and boil, and survive.)

[harobed1156]

All that said, I would eat whatever I could get my grubby hands on in a survival situation. Organic, free range, grew in a box, GMO, non-gmo, pesticide free, dusted off pesticides before I ate it, growth hormone be damned. If I can live long enough to ponder the long term health effects, then it is a win for survival. Statically about 20% of people put in a survival situation will die because they choose not to eat certain foods. Maybe the nay-sayers in this thread are simply the vocalization of that 20%.

I'd eat anything I could find in a survival situation - rats, bugs, pesticide-dusted highly processed sugar-laden GMO pop tarts - , unless it was so spoiled that food poisoning was practically guaranteed. I wouldn't eat my dog though, and I'd probably die of starvation before I'd eat human flesh. I don't fear death nearly as much as I'm revolted by depravity, so I'd probably give in to hypothermia before I'd attack someone to steal the last of their food.

Congratulations on the Paleo diet, I admire your fortitude.

[exeexe]

Statically about 20% of people put in a survival situation will die because they choose not to eat certain foods. Maybe the nay-sayers in this thread are simply the vocalization of that 20%.

No one in this thread expressed a desire for boycott of toxic food during survival situations. Hell even drinking urine is equivalent to eating toxic food lool

Also good job on your new body!

[lilpipsqueak]

I never thought I'd find a thread like this here. You guys make me laugh.

[DrMembrane]

There is literally no nutritional or health benefits to organic food, none. There is no science to support that idea, period. Second, when the character is so worried about starving that they will eat dog food and cat-tail stalks, this is such a non-issue as to be kind of funny.

[Boston123]

There is literally no nutritional or health benefits to organic food, none. There is no science to support that idea, period. Second, when the character is so worried about starving that they will eat dog food and cat-tail stalks, this is such a non-issue as to be kind of funny.

Ah.... the cattail plant is actually rather tasty. The rhizomes can be roasted on a fire, and taste like potatoes, the stalks and corms can be cooked in MANY different ways, and are delicious, and the pollen makes a tasty flour.

[exeexe]

See what im talking about

http://s4.postimg.org/ov9ttqh19/image.jpg

Avocados from Peru! completely free from toxic waste and subversive plastics, so instead of becoming dumb and numb as you normally would do by eating plastic food you get more smart, more intelligent and you get a boost of your comfort level.

[toebar]

Just out of curiousity.... what's the price comparison between that avocado and a regular one?

Also, I've never seen avocados packaged in plastic?

Seems like a waste of packaging to me-- are all avocados sold like that there or just the organic ones?

[Boston123]

See what im talking about

http://s4.postimg.org/ov9ttqh19/image.jpg

Avocados from Peru! completely free from toxic waste and subversive plastics, so instead of becoming dumb and numb as you normally would do by eating plastic food you get more smart, more intelligent and you get a boost of your comfort level.

Alright, this just proves to me that you have no actual idea how food, and by proxy, chemistry, works.

Oh, and packaging food in plastic? Great job using petroleum byproducts, there :lol:

EDIT: Holy crap, you bought those from PERU?I Why? You do realize they had to be shipped across TWO continents and an entire OCEAN to get to you, right? Whatever benefits you are getting (read: NONE WHATSOEVER, asides from ego-based psychological effects due to superiority) are DROWNED out by the amount of fuel, electricity, and chemicals it took to ship and refrigerate those 2-3 pieces of fruit to your table.

See, everyone, this is why you "buy local" whenever possible. You aren't helping the planet any by buying "organic" produce, especially when it comes from a different continent

[Random Fires]

See what im talking about

Avocados from Peru! completely free from toxic waste and subversive plastics, so instead of becoming dumb and numb as you normally would do by eating plastic food you get more smart, more intelligent and you get a boost of your comfort level.

Yup.

Let me get this straight, plastic packaged fruit, transported across an ocean to your country and stamped with claims of "organic" is better for your mind and body.

ROTFLOL. Nice catch! +1

Carbon foot print on transport.

Peru to Denmark?

Plastic. Eco-friendly packaging.... Check

Country of origin has less Agro Regulation than yours own or mine.

Organic grown, sure.

Is organic good, better or bad? Meh.... I wish more people considered the complete package purchased. The concept of organics and food substainabilty, not just some logos.

Not an attack on anyone, just the mindset of the many that Agro-Companies prey on.

[harobed1156]

Let me get this straight, plastic packaged fruit, transported across an ocean to your country and stamped with claims of "organic" is better for your mind and body.

ROTFLOL. Nice catch! +1

Carbon foot print on transport.

Peru to Denmark?

Plastic. Eco-friendly packaging.... Check

Country of origin has less Agro Regulation than yours own or mine.

Organic grown, sure.

Avocados are grown commercially where temperatures don't go below freezing; in South and Central America, parts of Mexico, and in a few places in Africa. If people want them and a variety of other fruits, vegetables, nuts, berries, etc..., then they need to be transported. I rather doubt the world's population wouldn't starve, or at least suffer extremely poor health, if we all had to live on only locally grown food. I don't see why a consumer shouldn't choose organic produce if that's what they prefer, given that the food is going to be transported either way.

As for plastics, you have no idea of what sort of packaging that is. It might be an eco-friendly ethylene barrier as opposed to a petro-chemical based plastic that's there solely for cosmetic reasons. You also have no clue as to what standards the distribution chain (exporters and importers) imposes on its growers, regardless of the country of origin. In fact, you don't seem to know much about food at all :lol:

[Scyzara]

Just as a side note: (Organic) avocados are also grown in Southern Italy & Sicily, which is roughly 2000 instead of 11000 km away from Denmark. It's not necessary at all to import them from Peru. *sigh*

Avocados from Peru! completely free from toxic waste and subversive plastics, so instead of becoming dumb and numb as you normally would do by eating plastic food you get more smart, more intelligent and you get a boost of your comfort level.

If I hadn't read other posts by this user before, I would certainly believe this one to be satiric. Most likely some kind of tragic irony, though.