Re-adjustment of global decay rate

[yollarbenibekler]

Since the world of the Long Dark getting bigger and bigger, you need to rush at the start of the game to loot everything before entropy kicks in and destroy everything in the containers. 

The world is expanding and you will not be able to loot everything because once you start a new game the clock starts to tick for the perishable items. Some of them are needed for recipes or crafting; some of them are just food or medicine. 

I think considering the fact that the world is vast now, the global decay rate could be slowed down at least 10% to catch up with the entropy. You can still find items that lying around with ruined condition and harvest them (clothes i.e.) but containers start to become empty and you think you're unlucky. 

Before the DLC I was able to loot every map in 100 days now but now it's more than 200; (the radio towers and bunkers require traversing back and repairing and waiting for aurora.) and you need to pass from the transfer area and the long train tracks after Broken Railroad to reach the DLC content. 

My new approach to looting is to loot and put everything on the ground so that they don't disappear in the containers. Playing in Stalker difficulty; I don't like custom modes (I don't know why) 

[Lexilogo]

Yeah, a lot about decay rates could use re-examination. There's a lot about it that annoys me, like raw mushrooms keeping forever while Condensed Milk that even says it "keeps forever" will actually be rotten after ~100 days IIRC. Or canned coffee expiring while actual cups of coffee keep forever. Or that raw animal gut/hides decay at all- Yes, that's realistic, but there's no scenario where you can't find an interior to cure them before they rot, so all it actually does is put your cured animal materials at a bunch of different condition levels to clutter inventory management.

I also personally think the auto-deletion on Ruined stuff should go, ruined items should have to be manually deleted with harvesting/destroying them. That'd let us keep our ruined moose meat inside the dang fridge instead of leaving it on the floor everywhere and remove the "picking up stuff to dump on the floor" issue in looting.

 

But anyway, yeah, I agree that with how much bigger the map has gotten, it's also a good reason to tone down decay rates. I don't want to feel like I'm being rushed when working my way through the island looking for loot.

[Ghurcb]

Arguably, that's how you keep the difficulty in check. I'm sure during the early access launch it'd be very difficult to survive for 100 days, because there was only one region and you'd run out of food very quickly. Not saying the game was better then, but with each new region it did become easier, because you'd get more resources. 

Personally, I don't mind things being ruined by the time you get to looting your 14th region. I do mind the fact that the food that is supposed to last through the apocalypse can go bad in a matter of weeks. It's in a can! I'd rather all those cans and packages had randomized condition, but barely lost it over time. That would make sense. Like, maybe this particular can of pork and beans was bought 5 years before SHTF, so now it's questionable if you should eat it? But it wouldn't change in a few days.

Edited October 30, 2024 by Ghurcb

[RossBondReturns]

People assume the Survival takes place weeks after story...just like they assume you play as Will or Astrid (Raphael has stated elsewhere that you are not playing as Will or Astrid in survival but those are the only voices or artwork they have for main characters in the game) .

Neither is accurate. 

The Survival Sandbox storyline and timeline wise is entirely separate from Wintermute (another reason they are separated).

If you want to keep them in the same timeline...then Survival takes place after everyone from story has died. So there has to be quite some time period for that to happen. Which means it's a very pleasant and realism breaking issue to find 100 condition cooked venison or high condition food items at all.

That said yes it's a large world now...especially counting modded regions...so this should force you to go to places you know will have good loot. I have no issue with the insanely randomized conditions of items even within one kitchen. It's quite dynamic- but the system will never be perfect.

[Pencil]

I understand where you are coming from and many people would like to have an opportunity to grab all the stuff before it decays. 

For me personally, I see this as balancing for adding new regions. New regions mean new resources in a world that is supposed to have limited resources. However, with the current state, you have to choose which resources you'd like to gather before they are all decayed. This really only applies to food though, as everything else is still usable once ruined or doesn't decay at all. Food decaying after a certain number of days is fine to me, as I think the game wants you to live off of the land more in the later days anyways. 

But there are people who want slower decay rates and people who want faster decay rates. In the end, custom settings is the best solution. 

[Lexilogo]

10 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

Arguably, that's how you keep the difficulty in check. I'm sure during the early access launch it'd be very difficult to survive for 100 days, because there was only one region and you'd run out of food very quickly.

6 hours ago, Pencil said:

This really only applies to food though, as everything else is still usable once ruined or doesn't decay at all. Food decaying after a certain number of days is fine to me, as I think the game wants you to live off of the land more in the later days anyways. 

Re. this, IMO this point is diminished when foraged food is nonperishable. Even before the DLC was added, there are so many cat tail heads on the map that they can keep you going for many, many months. Then you add acorns, burdock, mushrooms, rose hips...

I do agree that as the game goes on, looting food should become less reliable, but I don't think this is a super delicate balance. IMO if canned food more reliably lasted to the 1 year mark, I actually think it'd be good for long term runs, it helps keeps options for food more open and diverse in the long term.

[The Feng Hunter]

16 hours ago, Lexilogo said:

IMO if canned food more reliably lasted to the 1 year mark, I actually think it'd be good for long term runs, it helps keeps options for food more open and diverse in the long term.

Canned food could keep during the 1800s for up to five years in the can. Our food safety is much greater now. 

Besides, this entire conversation is moot anyway since the Ruined mechanic is useless. Rotten? Cook with it. Absolutely falling apart? Meh whatever. Eat it anyway.

The Ruined mechanic is what needs the overhaul. That’s where the ultimate pressure should come in, but it does not — especially now with  customization dropping and everyone displaying their massive quantities of food they’ll never touch anyway.

Why do you want ALL the food? To cook with? To consume? To hoard? To display as a vanity collection? A quicky-mart?

Again, food decay rate is fine. If you want it slower, use Custom — there’s already a setting for that. 

There are no penalties for Ruined food though. That’s the issue. 

[Skelegutplays]

In my opinion the real problem with decay is how quickly clothes decay when stored away. I've heard of people finding the tactical gloves ruined at day 200, which is ridiculous. The decay rate for clothes that are stored away should be greatly reduced.

[The Feng Hunter]

4 hours ago, Skelegutplays said:

In my opinion the real problem with decay is how quickly clothes decay when stored away. I've heard of people finding the tactical gloves ruined at day 200, which is ridiculous. The decay rate for clothes that are stored away should be greatly reduced.

Right, but in REALITY, those gloves have been wasting away for over twenty years by the time you find them.
 

There *has* to be some kind of cut off for them. That’s not asking too much. 

[ManicManiac]

I think it's good to keep in mind that decay is less about "reality" and likely more about feeding the core gameplay loop... which I think it does well.

Edited November 18, 2024 by ManicManiac

[manolitode]

On 10/30/2024 at 7:56 AM, yollarbenibekler said:

The world is expanding and you will not be able to loot everything because once you start a new game the clock starts to tick for the perishable items. Some of them are needed for recipes or crafting; some of them are just food or medicine.

I was once told on this forum that item decay is limited to regions. Meaning that the items in, let's say Bleak Inlet, starts decaying actively when you first enter the region, not before.

 

6 hours ago, Skelegutplays said:

In my opinion the real problem with decay is how quickly clothes decay when stored away. I've heard of people finding the tactical gloves ruined at day 200, which is ridiculous. The decay rate for clothes that are stored away should be greatly reduced.

Agreed. Clothing decay on higher difficulties is unrealistic enough to actually snap me out of immersion. Though as it makes leather more sparse I like it challenge-wise.

[yollarbenibekler]

20 minutes ago, manolitode said:

I was once told on this forum that item decay is limited to regions. Meaning that the items in, let's say Bleak Inlet, starts decaying actively when you first enter the region, not before.

 

Agreed. Clothing decay on higher difficulties is unrealistic enough to actually snap me out of immersion. Though as it makes leather more sparse I like it challenge-wise.

Decay starts globally as soon as you start a new game. 

[Stranzua]

I think it needs to be reworked. I repaired a bearskin bedroll, didn't use it, and it was back down to 60% way too quickly. Makes 0 sense. This is also on Voyager. 

[Timberawoo]

6 hours ago, Stranzua said:

I think it needs to be reworked. I repaired a bearskin bedroll, didn't use it, and it was back down to 60% way too quickly. Makes 0 sense. This is also on Voyager. 

Bedrolls and other clothing items decay even when not used. Bedrolls in particular decay Condition a lot faster when used (even for "Passing Time", in a vehicle or depoyed), if they're deployed (rolled out) and not used, or deployed/dropped outside. Bearskin Bedroll is pretty heavy and it can be challenging getting all the hides to keep it repaired, but it is very safe to sleep in (most of the time) from how much warmth it gives, and it has a hidden effect of restoring more Condition than other bedrolls when used for sleeping (similar to how Trapper's Cabin's bed restores bonus Condition).

Personally I'd probably argue the choice between Improvised Down and Bearskin is down to player choice. The added weight of Bearskin and challenge feeding it hides can be tough, but it is powerful. Improvised Down is nice upgrade/sidegrade to the vanilla bedroll, but I don't feel bad using it extensively even on Interloper.

On 10/29/2024 at 11:56 PM, yollarbenibekler said:

Since the world of the Long Dark getting bigger and bigger, you need to rush at the start of the game to loot everything before entropy kicks in and destroy everything in the containers. 

The world is expanding and you will not be able to loot everything because once you start a new game the clock starts to tick for the perishable items. Some of them are needed for recipes or crafting; some of them are just food or medicine. 

I think considering the fact that the world is vast now, the global decay rate could be slowed down at least 10% to catch up with the entropy. You can still find items that lying around with ruined condition and harvest them (clothes i.e.) but containers start to become empty and you think you're unlucky. 

Before the DLC I was able to loot every map in 100 days now but now it's more than 200; (the radio towers and bunkers require traversing back and repairing and waiting for aurora.) and you need to pass from the transfer area and the long train tracks after Broken Railroad to reach the DLC content. 

My new approach to looting is to loot and put everything on the ground so that they don't disappear in the containers. Playing in Stalker difficulty; I don't like custom modes (I don't know why) 

I do the same thing with dropping all spoil-able (and container-deleteable) loot on the ground, or placing it indoors.

Regarding time sensitivity: yes and no. There are time pressures to find certain items (mainly best in slot gear), but even those can be acquired from The Trader (albeit slowly), you're right that medicines and valuable/limited food are important, but most items don't matter or don't matter very much. It takes me ~130-140 days now to loot the whole world (sans Harvestables), but that is min-maxing and 'only' focusing on looting, so 200 days is a much more reasonable estimate and doesn't affect loot significantly. Day 300-400 on Stalker+ starts to see considerable risk of unique items or meds being ruined, so I'd consider that the 'ceiling to avoid and try looting before. The Trader takes a 'lot' of this time pressure (and e.g. permanently losing your wool socks coz you ran out of cloth in the uber late-game) away.

Currently the biggest pressures to loot ASAP are:

High Priority

• Medicine: (ASAP) antibiotics, painkillers, antiseptic. (for treating infection risk, broken ribs, and possible infection/parasite mistakes late-game)
• Finite food items: (ASAP) carrots, potatoes, peaches. Namely for strong unique cooking recipes (Camber Flight Porridge, Dockworker's Pie, arguably Thomson Family Stew).
• Unique TFTFT DLC Clothing:
  • Tactical Gloves (~Day 150-200) best in slot, unless you 'heavily' favor minimizing weight (Wool/Fleece Mittens).
    • Note: Despite being repaired with Cured Leather, it decays more like a middling Cloth item, so it is fairly decay-sensitive.
  • Technical Balaclava: (~Day 250-300) best in slot, much more durable than Wool Toque or vanilla Balaclava. It's tale is long, but it is durable so not a high time pressure.
  • Tactical Jacket (~Day 150-200) arguably good if you value Protection and minimizing weight, pretty fragile but easy to repair.
  • Holster/Toolbelt (~Day 400+) situationally good and durable.

Medium Priority

"Complete" set of Best-in-Slot clothing before Decay gets high; though this is much less important post-The Trader (if enabled), since most of these items can be purchased, albeit infrequently.

• Pilgrim-Stalker: Aviator's Cap, 2x Expedition Parka, 2x Cowichan, 2x Longjohns, 2x Climbing Socks, Mukluks/Skii Boots
• Interloper/Misery: 2x Wool Socks, 2x Thermal Panties, 2x Thin-Wool Sweater (or 1x and Hockey Jersey), 1x Combat Pants.
• Possibly spares of BIS clothing, especially less common ones in the off-chance they're Ruined in a wildlife struggle, or you make a mistake and forget to repair while hibernating/blizzard ruins, etc.
• Crampons: best in slot for Beachcombing or crossing Forlorn Muskeg. They decay slowly (but not as slowly as e.g. Matches/Flare Shells below) and are unique (or duo-unique, if you get lucky with TWM Summit), so they're worth getting and repairing for late-game beachcombing.
  • Note: there is a bug (dev oversight) with looted "Crampons", where as craftable "Improvised Crampons" provide a much stronger climbing benefit, however Crampons still yield a longer bonus to the Weak Ice timer.
• Ballistic Vest: very durable so it's slow to decay, but you'll want to get it earlier since it is non-repairable (so to get maximal use you want it ASAP).
  • Pro Tip: wear the Ballistic Vest on the "Inner" accessory slot (Left) and another accessory in the "Outer" (Right) slot to partially protect it from damage. This helps it last 'much' longer, and doesn't really cost more resources if you use a durable accessory (Satchel, Crampons, Imp Crampons, Toolbelt, Holster).

Low Priority

• Beachcombing: doesn't have unique loot, but all of it's items are affected by Decay. So if you miss something in the world (e.g. only 1 Thin-Wool Sweater on Interloper, and Trader is disabled), you will want to beachcomb as much as possible and as soon as possible to try and get one.
• Matches and Flare Shells: both decay, but 'very' slowly. Will take ~3000+ days for them to Ruin.
• Other Clothing/Food: e.g. for decoration/vanity/collection or as an emergency supply of food, etc.
• Pre-placed Animal Carcasses: (e.g. non-beachcombing dead animals) these do not decay until the player interacts with them, so really the only time pressure is how fast you want to play. They will Decay normally however as soon as you touch them (Crow Feather are fine though).
• (Cloth) Bedrolls: there is a mechanic (possible exploit) where Bedrolls (of all varieties) remain useable even at 0% Condition if they were left Deployed in a location prior to reaching 0% Condition. This 'was' useful pre-Furniture Workbench, as it was a way to create permanent beds in locations without them (e.g. Vacant Depot, Transfer Pass) that doesn't cost durability (e.g. of the actual sleeping roll). This can be quite dangerous though (especially on harder modes) since a bedroll's Warmth bonus is based on it's current durability, so a 0% Bedroll (regardless of type) gives +0*C Warmth and you can freeze at the nadir of the day (just before/after Sunrise) especially if a blizzard hits. Post-TFTFT Part 6 with Furniture Workbench allowing the crafting of good, warm, durability-free beds, this trick is still useful but isn't as important as before.
  • Pro Tip: (Cloth) Bedrolls durability doesn't matter if you value Improvised-Down Bedrolls. You can upgrade them regardless of Condition (e.g. 0% "Ruined") into Improvised-Down, and they'll  start out at 100%.

No Priority

• Harvestable Plants, Saplings: (no decay)
  • Note: Burdoc Root 'will' decay once harvested (even if Prepared).
• Other Crap: (no decay) Radial Spawns (Sticks, Coal, Birch Bark), Tree Limbs, Car Batteries, Scrap Metal, Sawing Metal,  Harvesting Furniture, Tools, etc.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Veskaida

[Stranzua]

In other threads I suggested 3 items to help with decay. 

1. Bedroll/sleeping bag covers: Basically, a nylon bag you can put your bedroll in to stop decay when not being used. You can get it from the trader. Only 1 per trade. 

2. Airtight food storage: A limited item with a max of 3 in the world. Allows you to store food ingredients longer. 

3. Mason jars. A limited item that allows you to store cooked food longer. Can only store 1 food type in the jar at a time just like the thermos.

Another option would be to make it so crafted furniture slows the decay of other items like clothing, or to give us a way to fix ruined gear via an aurora powered sewing machine or level 5 sewing.