trail marking, flagging.

[caverdude]

I do realize foot prints in snow last so long. But what about colorful cloth tied to trees. Why? I don't know right now but maybe to remind player of why he needs to go a given direction. Or simply if he's been there before.

[Majales]

Look around you and you'll see landmarks. Fallen trees, trees without leaves, rock shapes etc. Or drop some stuff. Burned out flares are good. Just don't store them in a container or they'll disappear (that little bug is still here)

[caverdude]

I forgot about dropping stuff. Thanks

[Bill Tarling]

there are a few threads discussing it if that helps with ideas:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1596&p=9134&hilit=mark+trees#p9134

and viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3116&p=16677&hilit=mark+trees#p16677

and viewtopic.php?f=59&t=3608&p=20049&hilit=mark+trees#p20049

and viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4375&p=25527&hilit=mark+trees#p25527

and viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4470&p=26182&hilit=mark+trees#p26182

... one trick a lot of us use is dropping specific visible items as markers as well [used flares are great for that] - after a number of plays. you become nicely familiar with the area, so you may find yourself marking out fewer and fewer spots once you get to know some of the areas [i usually just drop a used flare in a canyon if there are split sides/passages around tall rock areas]

[Shadowthrone]

It would be great to tie cloth to trees to mark a path! I would and have done this in real life.

[elloco999]

Yes, being able to mark paths would be great, like I said in many of the threads Bill references.

But until that's implemented, you can drop items to mark locations/ paths like Bill said. I use water bottles/ pieces of cedar to mark important paths where I might get lost in a blizzard/ fog as they are easy to come by and may save your life in other ways (provide water/ firewood when you're out). There are only so many flares, but water bottles you can get an unlimited number of.

[cdavis_541]

hey guys i play a lot of the long dark and there is one thing that i wish you all could use in the game and that is foresters tape (or flagging) like an ability to mark your way through the woods so that you can always find your way back to your cabin or homestead that you may find.

[AmericanSteel]

I just make a long, wide cut down the bark as I approach the tree. Do that about 50 to 100m. One, it leave a good trail for a rescue party to follow. Two, it lets you where you have been. If you double back, to see the swatch. Lastly, you can eat the cambium layer of some trees (aspen, birch, willow, maple, and pine come to mind). It is not a lot of carbs, but every little bit helps

[caverdude]

Ok we need trail tacks.

[Shanti]

I just make a long, wide cut down the bark as I approach the tree. Do that about 50 to 100m.

This is often called a blaze. Wikipedia

Like flagging, it is a great way to mark trails, and unlike a lot of other types of blazing, is great for snow conditions because it is permanent, and gets the marking up high enough to be seen even when there is lots of snow on the ground.

I think it would be great if we could blaze our own trails, and if we might stumble across a few pre-blazed trails (say from the camp office to the trapper's cabin) in areas where people might have hiked before the collapse.

[AmericanSteel]

I just make a long, wide cut down the bark as I approach the tree. Do that about 50 to 100m.

This is often called a blaze. Wikipedia

Like flagging, it is a great way to mark trails, and unlike a lot of other types of blazing, is great for snow conditions because it is permanent, and gets the marking up high enough to be seen even when there is lots of snow on the ground.

I think it would be great if we could blaze our own trails, and if we might stumble across a few pre-blazed trails (say from the camp office to the trapper's cabin) in areas where people might have hiked before the collapse.

Sweet. Never knew what it was called. Just something I learned from my uncle in Arkansas when I was a teen.

[Aelaera]

+1.

I don't know how much use you'll actually get out of it in sandbox mode, since after a few games in each area you can pretty much figure out where you are at all times, but it would be a really cool addition.

[Sempophai]

I've noticed the remains from my fires stay behind, if they don't ever clear, you could just make fires along a trail, spaced however works for you, the dark 'circle/mound' left, makes a reasonable marker, with a magnifying glass, in good weather, doesn't cost much more than time to do.

[tdgillies]

I usually forage for three bits of cedar and make an arrow pointing to the direction I am going. I might put two logs in an "X" if I find something like the path to a bunker and remind myself to go back there.

[Gaboris]

+1 on adding different marking options and most things that were quoted by Bill Tarling.

there are a few threads discussing it if that helps with ideas:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1596&p=9134&hilit=mark+trees#p9134

and viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3116&p=16677&hilit=mark+trees#p16677

and viewtopic.php?f=59&t=3608&p=20049&hilit=mark+trees#p20049

and viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4375&p=25527&hilit=mark+trees#p25527

and viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4470&p=26182&hilit=mark+trees#p26182

Thinking about it I'd say this would be REAL easy to implement without changing anything in the current game.

You only need to add simple craftable items and make them placeable like a lamp(BTW why isn't this a default option for every item in the game again? ).

From there it's just a question of how many items to add so people can differentiate their paths. No point in making a dozen different types to clog up the crafting menu, rather just have a few general items that can be customized.(I'd say that adding tree carvings would be harder than this.)

For example a small flag is just a piece of colored cloth strip tied to a stick in different ways or a wooden pointer with it's hands on different places, but still pointing in the same direction.

Crafting:

1 Reclaimed/Soft/Hard wood/cat tail stalk + 1 Cloth => X number of flags.

1 Reclaimed/Soft/Hard wood/cat tail stalk => X number of pointers.

Differentiate flags:

Either have an option while crafting to set the color and/or style of the flag/pointer (strip tied at one end, tied in the middle or tied both ends to the stick/arrow head at the top, bottom or make it an X) and not be able to change them(no option for harvesting or only give tinder) or have en extra "Customize" option under "Actions" where you can change the color and style through the inventory and the crafting simply has a default style and color.

Placement:

Just like with lamps except for flags witch can be placed on walls and trees(let's not argue how can one jab a stick into concrete :roll:) and picked back up. Maybe have them break down as time goes on in harsh weather and require replacements?

This way there's no need to do things like check if a knot can be tied somewhere or change the form of the model so it won't clip through an object.

Also to comment on the natural "Just drop an item and that's your 'in game' marker." mentality I can agree. That IS a marker and maybe that IS how some people would mark their paths in real life, but let's be honest. If you wanted to drive a nail into a piece of wood you could use a brick or a stone and it would work, but if you had a hammer you'd use that instead even if it was in the other side of the house because that's the proper tool for it.

For example wooden pieces weigh around 0.5kg and you can carry a few if you're not a hoarder like most gamers or forage new ones each time you want to mark a location, but flags/pointers could weigh around a tinder plug so you can have a batch of them at all times and place them within seconds. Also with pieces of wood/bottles/flares your options are limited in differentiating paths and directions unless if you start using multiple ones on the same location hence my first point with the weight.

Now just to be clear I'm not saying that anyone's wrong.

The "Make use of what you have since that's true survival." is a valid mentality nothing wrong with it, but for example it's harmful for my and other's "If I need to do something by misusing a mechanic(drop 5 bottles to form an arrow) or need outside sources(draw a map on paper to have a map) then that experience is missing tools and is incomplete." mentality whereas it has no negative effect the other way around and that's the reason why these things are always brought up.

...

But yeah we also need to remember to keep a balance and not have hundreds of items and mechanics for every minute task someone thinks of.

[Fodd]

It would be nice if you could mark your path especially when you venture into wooded areas. Maybe you could mark trees with your knife or just simply use a branch you to stick into the snow.

[elloco999]

Thinking about it I'd say this would be REAL easy to implement without changing anything in the current game.

You must be an expert game developer with intimate knowledge of how TLD is set up?

I agree that it looks easy to do, but it may be more difficult than it seems.

I guess they could add a new (craftable?) item (or items) that could be placed to mark trails/ locations. But how much would that add to our current options? You can already drop water bottles/ fire wood/ burnt out flares (or just about anything you like). Good enough for me. I already use this method for marking trails etc. I use .5L water bottles. They are not difficult to spot even in bad weather, are easy to come by and they could also safe your life in an emergency if you're dehydrated. Just dropping them already takes enough time as it is, so being able to place them would not be an improvement if you ask me.

[Gaboris]

Thinking about it I'd say this would be REAL easy to implement without changing anything in the current game.

You must be an expert game developer with intimate knowledge of how TLD is set up?

I agree that it looks easy to do, but it may be more difficult than it seems.

Yeah I also realized later on that I've overshot my expectations without actually knowing how the system works.

Also yeah, sadly I didn't get to try myself out in game making and by being a web developer I'm pretty low on the programmer charts, but still I had to base my logic on something and by that I thought that if something is already possible in a system (e.g.: place an item like a lantern) it can be applied to other entities without serious hassle... Unless if said function is built INTO the original item's code witch to me actually seemed to be harder to do then to have a general function that can be applied to it. :?

But this is basically why I said it. To see if someone from the team or with an actual understanding of the code can confirm it or not.

I guess they could add a new (craftable?) item (or items) that could be placed to mark trails/ locations. But how much would that add to our current options? You can already drop water bottles/ fire wood/ burnt out flares (or just about anything you like). Good enough for me. I already use this method for marking trails etc. I use .5L water bottles. They are not difficult to spot even in bad weather, are easy to come by and they could also safe your life in an emergency if you're dehydrated. Just dropping them already takes enough time as it is, so being able to place them would not be an improvement if you ask me.

I know, as I said before these techniques work and are valid, but to turn it around what damage would it do to your experience to have an option like this? This is not a challenge or a comeback this is just what I think about the situation and do tell me your own.

Anyways the real question is waiting for an insider who can tell us if it's possible to implement or if it even fits into the developer's vision to give people tools like this. Until then we'll be just throwing personal opinions around till the end of days. :lol:

[elloco999]

Thinking about it I'd say this would be REAL easy to implement without changing anything in the current game.

You must be an expert game developer with intimate knowledge of how TLD is set up?

I agree that it looks easy to do, but it may be more difficult than it seems.

Yeah I also realized later on that I've overshot my expectations without actually knowing how the system works.

No worries, I've been guilty of that myself a few times already

I know, as I said before these techniques work and are valid, but to turn it around what damage would it do to your experience to have an option like this? This is not a challenge or a comeback this is just what I think about the situation and do tell me your own.

It would certainly not damage the experience at all, it would certainly add something. And if it's an easy thing to implement I'm all for it! But if it's something that would take a good deal of time I would rather they spend that time on something with a higher return on investment.

I don't understand either why it's not possible to place all items the way this works for lanterns, except maybe it has something to do with the way the game determines where an item can be placed. If each item that can be placed needs a set of rules or a list of valid locations or something, that may be a lot of work and it may also just be that it such items need more resources (computer resources that is) so it may not be practical to have each item placeable.

It would indeed be nice if someone with a better knowledge of how this is implemented in TLD could shed some light on the subject

[Gaboris]

I know, as I said before these techniques work and are valid, but to turn it around what damage would it do to your experience to have an option like this? This is not a challenge or a comeback this is just what I think about the situation and do tell me your own.

It would certainly not damage the experience at all, it would certainly add something. And if it's an easy thing to implement I'm all for it! But if it's something that would take a good deal of time I would rather they spend that time on something with a higher return on investment.

Well would you look at THAT, some communication and it turns out we both have the same idea.

I don't understand either why it's not possible to place all items the way this works for lanterns, except maybe it has something to do with the way the game determines where an item can be placed. If each item that can be placed needs a set of rules or a list of valid locations or something, that may be a lot of work and it may also just be that it such items need more resources (computer resources that is) so it may not be practical to have each item placeable.

It would indeed be nice if someone with a better knowledge of how this is implemented in TLD could shed some light on the subject

Hmmm well yeah if you mean something similar to a navmesh where there's a separate "grid" laid on top of a map that tells "where a character can walk" except it's "where can this object be placed". That's a good thought, but even if that's the case then I'd say sleeping bags and fires that can be also placed should be using the same "grid" and not need their own. Heck fireplaces even check if it's a wooden surface or if the wind can reach a given location so it has to be something dynamic.

So far I've theorized that when we're placing a lantern/sleeping bag/fire the "placing function" draws a 90° line off the given surface checks if it's within an allowed angle from an absolute horizontal line and tells it it can be placed or not.

If this theory is right and there's an actual "placing function" that does this then there HAS to be a fix number(if not already a proper variable) that sets the allowed range of the angle. In a cases like this I'd just make the range a variable(if it's not already) that can get a different value for every single item so it can work with special cases like wall mounts as well without any major changes done.

The only problem I can think of right now is the placed object itself. If we wanted to place a flag on the ground we'd make it straight, but if it's on a wall we'd naturally go for a higher angle, but so far the system seems to only allow for 90° placement, but this is just some nitpicking on my part. :?

But again as I said I don't know how the system actually works and I'm eagerly waiting for a chance to hear some feedback from the actual developers. :mrgreen:

[ChillPlayer]

Or you could just do what many do on frozen lakes to orient themselfs during blizzards: drop a bottle of water every 50 or 100m, it will stay there forever and you can technically produce an infinite amount of it. But the longer you play the more you learn to use landmarks for orientation until you have a complete map in your mind, then you can pick up all the water bottles

[Gaboris]

Or you could just do what many do on frozen lakes to orient themselfs during blizzards: drop a bottle of water every 50 or 100m, it will stay there forever and you can technically produce an infinite amount of it. But the longer you play the more you learn to use landmarks for orientation until you have a complete map in your mind, then you can pick up all the water bottles

Heh. Let me venture a guess and say that you haven't read any of the last few comments. :mrgreen:

[ChillPlayer]

You guessed wrong I just didn't read evey single line of your lengthy posts, but I read the first page and skimmed through the rest. Maybe stick to the relevant parts and make use of tl;dr - also, maybe use the search function, this issue was discussed a trillion times already

If your problem is missing markers, dropping bottles is the solution and as I said, come back in two months and you will recognize that you don't need markers anymore at all because you know the landscape. There really is no need for it, and Pilgrim or Voyageur are excellent starting places to get to know the maps. The devs focus is on using landmarks for orientation, that's why they are there afterall.

[elloco999]

Dropping bottles has been suggested in this thread, hence Gaboris' reply...

I have played TLD for quite a while now and I still use the bottle dropping method to mark important trails where I could get lost in a blizzard, or where I might wander a bit too close to known wolf trails. I would not mind a true marking option in the game, if it doesn't take much developing effort. If it does take a lot of effort, I'd rather they spend the time on something else.

[octavian]

I still think wind chimes are the way to go. Atmosphere and audio beacons for newbies, atmosphere for those that don't need it as navigation.

Ear hole navigation isn't that common - name on example - and it would be another showcase of TLDs sound design. But then again, this idea was never popular, it didn't get support back when I suggested it.