reloading supplies


caverdude

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Reloading ammo isn't that easy. You need bullets, casings, smokeless gunpowder, primes, reloading press and experience. If you put too much gunpowder into casing, then you can injure yourself when you try to shoot. You can end up with jammed rifle etc.

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Not a bad idea. I think adding the ability to blow up your rifle or have weak or even squib loads due to inexperience would be an interesting risk benefit analysis for the player to deal with. What if, through reloading, you could survive long enough to see the thaw after the winter. A sort of endgame leading to TDL 2 perhaps.

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Like I said in other threads regarding reloading: it would take a lot of effort to add reloading to the game. And let's face it, the only reason we want reloading is because we want more bullets. So let's just add more bullets and not spend a lot of time developing a reloading feature.

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The whole idea of reloading was REALLY beat to death on Project Zomboid and the same conditions apply. Plus (a big plus actually) you have a high level of moisture that could foul your stash of powder. After all, most of those supplies are sold in tight weave cloth bags. The idea of reloading supplies was eventually shot down due to the complex nature of reloading, the thin tolerances of modern weapons and the availability of reloading materials.

1. Reloading is complex. You just dont slap a primer into a shell, pour powder into it and crimp a piece of lead on top. The weight of the powder is measured in fractions of an ounce. So you need a great scale (probably non-digital after the event). Shotgun shells have a bit more tolerance over a bullet (I have loaded a shotgun shell with dimes) but even then you have to have a measured powder to lead ratio. Get it wrong and you could simply have a "misfire" or a "pop and no kick." Worse case scenario the ammo blows up in your face.

2. Thin Tolerance - Modern firearms are built under very controlled conditions with particular ammo preferences in mind. Some weapons operate better with certain kinds of ammo. Hence the need to take a variety of ammo out to the field and test them with a new weapon. Even off the shelf ammo in perfect condition might not perform. The shell might not eject properly (because the extractor on the bolt cant get a grip on the back of the casing). The shell might not feed properly (because the nose of the lead is off or the casing as a ridge the chamber does not like). Now add in home reloading and see what happens. Not me! I have a reloading rig for skeet and trap, but I would never try to reload my 9mm or any of my rifles.

3. Availability of Materials - You just don't walk into a dry good store and purchase casing, powder and lead. When I was a kid (back in the 70s) there were specialty gun shops that handled reloading supplies. Now days, some of the larger hunting stores do the same. More likely than not, it is mail order or online purchasing. The player now needs to find these sorts of "rare" supplies out in the bush and isolated pockets of humanity. You want to roll the dice on finding the right kind of powder, for the right kind of casing, with the correct fitting primers with the right kind of lead for that weapon you are sporting. Not likely!

It would be easier to construct a bow/crossbow than reloading EVER would be. That said, if the player found a black powder weapon with the blank to mold bullets... then our chances would increase dramatically. To make things an easy fiction for the game, we just need to cut cloth into packing swatches and melt spare parts into bullets. Now we just need to find a horn or two of black powder (maybe in one of those safes). It would take the player 20 to 30 seconds to prep a weapon, have their vision obscured by the cloud after they pulled the trigger and pray the low tolerance weapon is true to the mark.

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Yes I forgot about primers. As far as skill goes it could be assumed the player has the skill and kowhow. And a hand reloaded is like a pair of pliers. Could be asumed inclused in toolbox or workbench. And id think reloading in the extreme north is part of life there. It gives the player something else to think about and to do. The more we have to do, the more entertaining the game would be. Face it, doing the same basic survival task over and over gets boring. That said I'm still for the addition of reloading.

Also shells can practically only be reloaded so many times. Powder and bullets and primers would run out. It's not like there would be unlimited supply of ammo because of reloading. Powder is in plastic jars with air tight lids. Moisture might be a problem using outdoor workbench but not inside.

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Yes I forgot about primers. As far as skill goes it could be assumed the player has the skill and kowhow. And a hand reloaded is like a pair of pliers. Could be asumed inclused in toolbox or workbench.

Not necessarily. Not every shooter knows how to reload ammo, so it's to much forced skill for me.

I'm sorry, hand reload isn't just pair of pliers. The casing is a little bit deformed after firing due to large stress and you need to normalize it or you risk, that the rifle jammed during reloading (the round will be bigger then chamber). I know that very well. I had jammed handgun due to bad factory reloaded ammo.

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While we are talking about reloading ammunition, lets also discuss that it would be a really good idea to be able to unload your rifle, before you repair it

This is one thing you can sacrifice in the name of a gameplay. Unloading is part of the repair process, when you are hearing only noises.

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It would be easier to construct a bow/crossbow than reloading EVER would be.

You've .... never made a bow, or made arrows before, have you? An actual bow, that can propel a shaft with power and accuracy out to an adequate range, and actual arrows, with straight shafts, a solid point, and fletchings that actually work. Not a bent stick with some string tied on.

Bow-making is an art. It is not something anyone can do, just picking up some random branches and string. It takes time, experience, and material, and as such, "proper" bow-making is beyond 99% of average survivors.

I've made 2 bows before, and I am working on one now. Started 6 months ago, and I am not yet done. The limbs are roughly shaped, but I still have a lot of work to do on them, and I haven't even started tillering yet. I also have made several arrows, and it has taken me about 4 months off-and-on to make 6 arrows from scratch: find the shafts, straighten them, sand them, nock them, make the heads, make the fletchings, etc

Which is why I am 100% against there being any sort of "player-made" bow or crossbow included in this game. They are simply too difficult and time-consuming to make. "Looted" bows and crossbows would be fine, but, hell, humanity invented firearms for a reason: namely, they are easier to use, and effective at longer distances. Bows/crossbows would be a 100% last resort for me, after I make a spear and bolas

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It would be easier to construct a bow/crossbow than reloading EVER would be.

You've .... never made a bow, or made arrows before, have you? An actual bow, that can propel a shaft with power and accuracy out to an adequate range, and actual arrows, with straight shafts, a solid point, and fletchings that actually work. Not a bent stick with some string tied on.

Bow-making is an art. It is not something anyone can do, just picking up some random branches and string. It takes time, experience, and material, and as such, "proper" bow-making is beyond 99% of average survivors.

I've made 2 bows before, and I am working on one now. Started 6 months ago, and I am not yet done. The limbs are roughly shaped, but I still have a lot of work to do on them, and I haven't even started tillering yet. I also have made several arrows, and it has taken me about 4 months off-and-on to make 6 arrows from scratch: find the shafts, straighten them, sand them, nock them, make the heads, make the fletchings, etc

Which is why I am 100% against there being any sort of "player-made" bow or crossbow included in this game. They are simply too difficult and time-consuming to make. "Looted" bows and crossbows would be fine, but, hell, humanity invented firearms for a reason: namely, they are easier to use, and effective at longer distances. Bows/crossbows would be a 100% last resort for me, after I make a spear and bolas

Yeah. I'm reminded of the crafted bow in the Forest. :roll:

A crude spear (pointy stick) would be more effective and a better addition IMO.

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It would be easier to construct a bow/crossbow than reloading EVER would be.

You've .... never made a bow, or made arrows before, have you? An actual bow, that can propel a shaft with power and accuracy out to an adequate range, and actual arrows, with straight shafts, a solid point, and fletchings that actually work. Not a bent stick with some string tied on.

Bow-making is an art. It is not something anyone can do, just picking up some random branches and string. It takes time, experience, and material, and as such, "proper" bow-making is beyond 99% of average survivors.

I've made 2 bows before, and I am working on one now. Started 6 months ago, and I am not yet done. The limbs are roughly shaped, but I still have a lot of work to do on them, and I haven't even started tillering yet. I also have made several arrows, and it has taken me about 4 months off-and-on to make 6 arrows from scratch: find the shafts, straighten them, sand them, nock them, make the heads, make the fletchings, etc

Which is why I am 100% against there being any sort of "player-made" bow or crossbow included in this game. They are simply too difficult and time-consuming to make. "Looted" bows and crossbows would be fine, but, hell, humanity invented firearms for a reason: namely, they are easier to use, and effective at longer distances. Bows/crossbows would be a 100% last resort for me, after I make a spear and bolas

Actually, I have made bows, crossbows and tension spring weapons. A tension weapon is much easier to make, I just made a tension spring chamber and fixed it to firing platform. Made the bolts out of spokes from a bicycle. I made that weapon over a weekend to kill pike out in the lake near my house when I was a senior in high school. I then made a few more and took them with me on deployments while in the army. The parts by themselves look harmless. You put them together and you can kill all sorts of game. I have made a crossbow out of firing platform and metal off a few old cars, using piano wire for a string. That took my about about a week, a few hours a day. I made that while home on leave and taking it easy in Arkansas. I made a bow out of juniper, reinforced with rawhide and used horsehair for the string (basically a short bow like the American Indian used, but with some metal). I made the short bow when I was 14 and shooting All State Archery in Texas. Took about 4 weeks, and hour here and there. I think I should have cured the wood a bit longer because the weapon only lasted me about a season. My father told me long ago "The problem is your will. You can either over come it or you can be defeated by it." The US Military has a similar motto, Adapt and Overcome. You don't have to follow a formula. You apply the principles of the device to what you have on hand and make do. We can cannibalize all sort of junk from cars, tractors, barns, homes and even a dam. If the survivor has the will (and the devs make a way) then we should be able to do it.

Thing is, you have to measure powder down to a fraction of an ounce. That means we need a great non-digital scale or a balance with a great set of weights. The powder also has to be dry, pure and free from moisture. You have to make sure the casing is perfect and the crimp is clean. You also have to make sure the primers are right for the casing, this is not a one size fits all shell solution. If you goof with a bow, chance are the weapon is going to break or the string is going to shear. Unless you have pulled back to far, the most damage you will receive is a bruised ego or a cut/scrape to your arm. You goof it with ammo and you could be looking at anything from a simple misfire to the weapon blowing up in your face.

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Great info in here you guys. I really like the personal experiences for building weapons--very interesting. :)

I think being able to reload ammo is a bit outside the scope of this game-- I like to think of it as basic survival crafting, that most anyone could do with rustic supplies. Not everyone would know how to do these things, to be fair, but that's where we need to allow some wiggle room, or accept that the basic crafting so far in game is a plausible part of the character's knowledge. That plausibility stretches only so far though.

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