Cougar (again)

[K3V038]

Cougars were cool and all, but just implemented in a diffrent way than many players would expect. I personaly agree with the players, but there are countless posts and videos about how the mechanics could of been diffrent. Im trying to talk more about the way the cougar could of looked, along with the drops. Cougars in the game look good on their own, but I think they should be bigger, way more robust and muscular, since they are like that in real life, they take down bears, and have big paws (huge) that allow them to climb good, move quietly through thick snow, and deliver killing blows. 

my point being, they are a lot smaller and much less furry and less muscular in the game, and they only give you 4kg of usable meat if you harvest them, which gives another point, how come something that weighs at 5,5 kg can pin you down in the first place? That gives another point, a bear that can be killed easier, drops much more, calorie dense meat at much bigger ammounts, a wolf (most common critter) drops a couple kg more meat, and is nowhere near as muscular as a cougar.

 

No hate, just saying whats on my mind

[ridankrad]

Wow, that's an amazing picture. Really shows how massive cougars are. Anyway, I think I agree with the points in your post, although I suppose there may be some variance on the size of cougars and I would imagine Hinterland reviewed reference photos while designing the model. That said, considering that it's intended as an apex predator, I nevertheless would agree that it makes sense for it to match the size of one like depicted in your reference photo and to give more meat if taken down to match that size.

[Mroz4k]

It is interesting to see cougar discussion that does not revolve around reworking it!

On the topic of meat, keep in mind that this is nothing new, considering TLD. It is a gameplay mechanic that is meant to balance out a bit the hunting food rewards. Afteral, a deer would not yield just 7kg of venison, either, and bear or moose would also yield much, much more! Not to mention - you JUST got a super deadly affliction of Severe lacerations and most of your condition is gone, and you are already probably bleeding as is - would you really worry about harvesting 20kg of meat in those conditions?  

The reason about the size of the cat - I agree, it looks very skinny in the game! But I believe there also lies gameplay functionality - think about how the current cougar was designed... if it was huge, it would be much easier to shoot it in the revenge-shot part of the struggle. Basically, the bigger cougar target would be, the easier would be to kill it. It could be easily assumed that the example of cougar we end up facing in TLD is still a rather young exemplar.

Nice picture, though! Looks terrifying...

[Veskaida]

13 hours ago, K3V038 said:

Cougars were cool and all, but just implemented in a diffrent way than many players would expect.

I agree. I enjoyed the implementation of Cougars, though perhaps the timer before they could appear was longer for most game modes than it needed to be (was 70/30/30/20/10 days).

Hinterlands/Raph hasn't said anything specifically about why The Cougar was removed other than "you aren't happy with our implementation of the Cougar". So unless there is clarification (which I doubt we'll get) about what/why specifically caused Hinterlands to pull the mob then we'll never know; though it may be possible to infer what some of this feedback was when the Cougar is re-implemented based on what changes

13 hours ago, K3V038 said:

Im trying to talk more about the way the cougar could of looked, along with the drops.

my point being, they are a lot smaller and much less furry and less muscular in the game, and they only give you 4kg of usable meat if you harvest them, which gives another point, how come something that weighs at 5,5 kg can pin you down in the first place? That gives another point, a bear that can be killed easier, drops much more, calorie dense meat at much bigger ammounts, a wolf (most common critter) drops a couple kg more meat, and is nowhere near as muscular as a cougar.

Yes, I liked the look of the Cougar's model, aesthetics and animations: the mauling animation in particular was very well done. IMO the best animation in the game given it's complexity and detail.

The Long Dark doesn't have a photo-realistic aesthetic, I feel it's more "watercolor" or "pastel" with stylized, slightly exaggerated features and generally muted colors, except colors meant for emphasis.

Here are some screenshots of the cougar in-game.

Spoiler

 

13 hours ago, K3V038 said:

Im trying to talk more about the way the cougar could of looked, along with the drops.

my point being, they are a lot smaller and much less furry and less muscular in the game, and they only give you 4kg of usable meat if you harvest them, which gives another point, how come something that weighs at 5,5 kg can pin you down in the first place?

Yes, Cougars when harvested only yielded 4 Cougar Meat (Raw) (and 1 Cougar Hide (raw), 1 Cougar Claw and 2 Fresh Guts). I don't know the rationale for these values, but they are similar that for wolves in TLD, so it is probably for game balance. Though, I wouldn't assume just because it only yields 4kg that the whole animal only weighs that (plus the weight of it's other yields); there is always going to be bones, hair, bones, undesirable cuts, or ruined/unusable parts of a carcass.

• Is it more realistic if Cougars have 20 claws? Yes.
• Would that be a game balance issue? Maybe.
• Did Hinterlands do this deliberately: yes.

This has been a common criticism of The Long Dark over many years; namely the the harvest yields of mobs (mostly wolves) and other foodstuffs/consumables. The Long Dark even has a disclaimer when launching the program about it focusing on "gameplay over realism".

e.g.

• Wolves in TLD yield 3-6kg meat (IRL weigh ~13-66kg)
• American Black Bear in TLD yield 25-40kg meat (IRL weigh ~136kg)
• Western Moose in TLD yield 30-45kg meat (IRL weigh ~450kg)

The same "realism" argument could be made for many items/situations in TLD, like:

• Frostbite on your hands doesn't remove fingers on the player model
• TLD's Aurora isn't how a geomagnetic storm would look/behave/etc
• Wildlife behavior is unrealistic/Aurora wildlife behavior is unrealistic
• MRE has only 1,750 calories
• Toilet Water is "potable" even if it's a model of toilet with no reservoir tank
• That you drink hot teas/coffee for warmth but not water/most foods
• inability to knap stone/bone tools
• inability to harvest fresh water without boiling snow
• bottled water/canned foods don't freeze
• The player can magically manifest plastic bottles/plates/bowls/cups when cooking/boiling
• Prybars, Rifle rounds, whole-sale Fishingboats can wash up onto an icy shelf of a coastline constantly for years
• A .303 round from a Lee-Enfield wouldn't disintegrate a wolf into a cloud of red mist
• A Smith & Wesson Model 27/28 is chambered to .357 but fires .32 S&W or .38 Special
• Canadian flags around Great Bear Island never tatter/fade even after flying in high wind speed for years
• Player never gets the cold/flu from being hypothermic or running around in the snow for years
• Winter lasts forever, with even players who've survived 10,000 days never get to spring
• Player never dies of old age
• Player never has to pee/poop/shave
• That a Canadian could ever feel cold, even in -100°C weather

Etc etc ad nauseam.

I do not know specifically caused Hinterlands to include this "notice" when launching the application, but it's probably because of constant questions/criticisms like this for a decade; though I also recall reading a Canadian news article from several years ago about two teenagers who threw stones at a wolf(s) (I think in a park/reserve), and when interrogated by authorities they spoke about their experiences playing The Long Dark. I could be wrong, but I think that 'this' specifically is why the "Hinterlands does not condone the wanton destruction of wildlife" line in the disclaimer.