Dear hinterland, why does salt decay?

[BugReportEnthusiast]

It's salt.

Salt doesn't rot, decay, or expire. It's salt.

And on a secondary note, what's up with the speedy decay of food items in general? We are in an antartic winter hellscape, with temperatures far below zero. Canned Food or ingredients such as flour or oats should not be rotting or decaying. The entire island is one big freezer, and they're sitting on a shelf or cupboard completely inert.

And regarding humidity, low temperatures make the air less able to hold water which makes this a non-factor in storing foodstuff in antarctic winter type temperatures.

[Shadox]

I agree with Salt should have no decay, as it has been there for like.. forever.

I think some of those speedy decay rates aint intended to be realistic, but for gameplay purposes. We have things that should realistically last for several years at least, but they decay fast. While on the other hand rosehips, reishi and cattails will never go bad even if they are harvested 1000 Days ago. If im not mistaken, Hinterland themselves stated that they dont want to go full-on realistic, but rather find a balance between realism and fun gameplay.

Usually i think more realism is always better in survival games, but since TLD has no material respawn aside of beachcombing, and no farming, i prefer those non-renewable plants to not expire, as that makes long runs more fun and suitable. And it feels strange if i'd complain about some items not behaving realistic, while im glad about other items also not behaving realistic.

Personally, i think Salt should have always 100% condition, but the other ingredients should have varying condition, to simulate how good or bad they have been stored, or how long they have been on shelves.

 

[Kain]

I feel like there is a ton of oversight with this patch release, not sure what is going on. 

[deathbydanish]

7 hours ago, BugReportEnthusiast said:

It's salt.

Salt doesn't rot, decay, or expire. It's salt.

And on a secondary note, what's up with the speedy decay of food items in general? We are in an antartic winter hellscape, with temperatures far below zero. Canned Food or ingredients such as flour or oats should not be rotting or decaying. The entire island is one big freezer, and they're sitting on a shelf or cupboard completely inert.

And regarding humidity, low temperatures make the air less able to hold water which makes this a non-factor in storing foodstuff in antarctic winter type temperatures.

I like to think of this in a grim way, the cans are all slightly damaged due to the geomagnetic event violently shaking everything. You're slowly seeing the cans develop whatever causes botulism since the seals are no longer 100%. Would it be too far of a stretch to maybe apply this to the other normally non-perishable stuff like the salt or flour, maybe their containers became compromised as the earth shook and as with the cans they are no longer sealed 100%. Some casual googling indicates that you should keep salt in an airtight container for long term storage, but I would agree that decay for salt shouldn't happen in a perceptible way.

[James Hickok]

You can still cook with ruined products right? Most of the stuff i have found is ruined. 

[hozz1235]

Game play mechanics/choices vs realism.  You have to suspend realism somewhat to play games...

[Admin]

Thank you for the feedback. 

[conanjaguar]

“But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.”

EDIT: It does indeed seem rather strange…

Edited June 27 by conanjaguar

[ManicManiac]

9 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

...sometimes a video game just has to "video game"...
I mean a prybar doesn't really break after roughly 62 uses, and whetstones don't really wear out after 20 uses... but it's a video game and it has to be unrealistic if it's going to require us to have to carefully consider if the cost of using limited resources is worth what we are trying to do with it.  To my mind this is a good thing.   It requires us to have to be more careful and deliberate how we manage and use our resources. 

None of the condition decay is "realistic" but it doesn't need to be... if this game were trying to perfectly line up with reality; then it would be boring and mundane as heck.  I mean one day in-game is only 2 hours in real time... I'd hate for the day/night cycle to be in real-time.   

It always bothers me when folks get hung up on the idea that this game is trying to be "hyper-realsitic."  It's not, and Raph has said as much many many times.   

Edited June 28 by ManicManiac

[Glflegolas]

Salt *should* in theory be renewable. Just put seawater in a recycled can and boil it dry!

Or, if you're feeling a bit more adventurous, mix muriatic acid and drain cleaner. (HCl + NaOH --> NaCl + H2O) Baking soda works okay too (and is a little safer)! (HCl + NaHCO3 --> NaCl + H2O + CO2)

[ManicManiac]

34 minutes ago, Glflegolas said:

Just put seawater in a recycled can and boil it dry!

I mean, that's a fair point of course... but at the moment the descriptions just imply we are melting and boiling snow (and since that's assumed we get to skip having to go out to gather it).  Currently we don't have a way to select a source... whether that's water or snow.  Nor do we have much of a fluid management system.  🤔

I'm not criticizing the thought... just that we don't yet have a mechanism that would make that internally consistent with the mechanics we have to hand.

[BugReportEnthusiast]

14 hours ago, Glflegolas said:

Salt *should* in theory be renewable. Just put seawater in a recycled can and boil it dry!

Or, if you're feeling a bit more adventurous, mix muriatic acid and drain cleaner. (HCl + NaOH --> NaCl + H2O) Baking soda works okay too (and is a little safer)! (HCl + NaHCO3 --> NaCl + H2O + CO2)

That's what I've been saying!! It's such a terrible pity that the most basic of items aren't renewable. (salt from the sea, cooking oil from fish, etc)

[Glflegolas]

It's also silly that gas ranges in houses don't work. I can't believe that every single inhabitant of Great Bear ran their propane tanks out of propane after the First Flare.

[conanjaguar]

15 hours ago, Glflegolas said:

Just put seawater in a recycled can and boil it dry!

In theory, it might work… but wouldn’t that salt be of very low quality?

[BugReportEnthusiast]

14 minutes ago, conanjaguar said:

In theory, it might work… but wouldn’t that salt be of very low quality?

Nah trust me on this, i live in the Mediterranean.

Salt straight from the sea is the tastiest thing you'll ever experience. It's like the premium version of salt, store bought can't compete

The main issue with boiling water to make salt is that you don't get a lot, 0.035kg per 1L of seawater according to a quick google search.

Edited June 28 by BugReportEnthusiast
Additional information on salt

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, BugReportEnthusiast said:

Nah trust me on this, i live in the Mediterranean.

Salt straight from the sea is the tastiest thing you'll ever experience. It's like the premium version of salt, store bought can't compete

You do know what people do in the sea don't you?    Never mind the microscopic stuff like plastic these days..

[conanjaguar]

1 minute ago, Leeanda said:

You do know what people do in the sea don't you?    Never mind the microscopic stuff like plastic these days..

I was just about to say that… I imagine the quality of the water makes a huge difference.

[BugReportEnthusiast]

 

8 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

You do know what people do in the sea don't you?    Never mind the microscopic stuff like plastic these days..

This is pretty off topic but the sea is really big, and fish/human poo and peepee occupy a very small amount of it

Pollution from industry is a non factor in many locations, and same goes for microplastics i would assume.

Great bear island is very remote, and all the industry has stopped functioning anyway. I see no reason it wouldn't work if you filtered the water through a cloth to get rid of any particles before boiling

Edited June 28 by BugReportEnthusiast
typos

[Leeanda]

7 minutes ago, BugReportEnthusiast said:

 

This is pretty off topic but the sea is really big, and fish/human poo and peepee occupy a very small amount of it

Pollution from industry is a non factor in many locations, and same goes for microplastics i would assume.

Great bear island is very remote, and all the industry has stopped functioning anyway. I see no reason it wouldn't work if you filtered the water through a cloth to get rid of any particles before boiling

Well slightly off topic yes. But partly out of concern for your welfare... Drinking seawater isn't good for anyone.. even if it's boiled. 

Boiled down to salt I would've thought any issues would be minimal .  

 

[BugReportEnthusiast]

6 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Well slightly off topic yes. But partly out of concern for your welfare... Drinking seawater isn't good for anyone.. even if it's boiled. 

Boiled down to salt I would've thought any issues would be minimal .  

 

Don't worry i don't drink straight seawater lol, sometimes we collect salt from natural salt pans that form on rock outcroppings. The sea water splashes in from waves, gets trapped, and the sun and heat evaporate the water leaving only the tasty salt behind on the rocks. Then you take the salt and use it to cook. S tier stuff.

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, BugReportEnthusiast said:

Don't worry i don't drink straight seawater lol, sometimes we collect salt from natural salt pans that form on rock outcroppings. The sea water splashes in from waves, gets trapped, and the sun and heat evaporate the water leaving only the tasty salt behind on the rocks. Then you take the salt and use it to cook. S tier stuff.

Glad to hear it😊.      I'm trying to think if there are any rocks in great bear accessible to do that.  

I'm also wondering where the seaweed is now😁

[BugReportEnthusiast]

4 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Glad to hear it😊.      I'm trying to think if there are any rocks in great bear accessible to do that.  

I'm also wondering where the seaweed is now😁

I'm unsure if salt would collect like this in great bear because of the subzero temps. I think it would freeze before it could evaporate and leave any salt behind

[Leeanda]

Just now, BugReportEnthusiast said:

I'm unsure if salt would collect like this in great bear because of the subzero temps. I think it would freeze before it could evaporate and leave any salt behind

Oh yes so it would..  😁.    Silly me.

[ManicManiac]

37 minutes ago, BugReportEnthusiast said:

Pollution from industry is a non factor in many locations, and same goes for microplastics i would assume.

Seems to me a little irresponsible to call industrial pollution (and the various ways we contribute the damage of our ecosystems) a "non-factor." 😒

Edited June 28 by ManicManiac

[BugReportEnthusiast]

5 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Seems to me a little irresponsible to call industrial pollution (and the various ways we contribute the damage of our ecosystems) a "non-factor." 😒

All i'm sayin is that a small island with 78 inhabitants with zero industry and a population that spends its time farming wheat and milking goats out on the middle of the aegean sea isn't gonna have issues with industrial pollution. Therefore the salt found in salt pans is pretty safe to consume.