April Dev Diary

[Semple Fi]

28 minutes ago, Moosemaster said:

10 bucks at least one person will complain the lower loot sucks

take my money

[Moosemaster]

4 minutes ago, Semple Fi said:

take my money

🤝 pleasure doing business with you

[UpUpAway95]

16 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

Impossible to make it fair to everyone.  IMHO, the next best option is make it fair to the majority.

I agree that it is impossible to make it absolutely fair to everyone, but I don't agree with a "majority rules" philosophy either.  Everyone's needs and concerns should be at least given some consideration.  Balance does not equal perfection for everyone.  It never has... and we all need to accept that compromises will need to be made to move forward.

[Semple Fi]

3 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I agree that it is impossible to make it absolutely fair to everyone, but I don't agree with a "majority rules" philosophy either.  Everyone's needs and concerns should be at least given some consideration.  Balance does not equal perfection for everyone.  It never has... and we all need to accept that compromises will need to be made to move forward.

Move forward from what?

I thought the premise of this game, especially interloper, is the struggle to survive.  “Extinction is rule, Survival the exception”, “You are not part of nature’s plan”, etc.  
 

Life isn’t fair, and nature doesn’t care about our feelings.  
 

majority rules is how a species survives, catering to the fringes is how it collapses.  
 

Seems in line with the Survival theme.  
 

Perhaps the answer is relearning how to be told “no”.  

[UpUpAway95]

1 minute ago, Semple Fi said:

Move forward from what?

I thought the premise of this game, especially interloper, is the struggle to survive.  “Extinction is rule, Survival the exception”, “You are not part of nature’s plan”, etc.  
 

Life isn’t fair, and nature doesn’t care about our feelings.  
 

majority rules is how a species survives, catering to the fringes is how it collapses.  
 

Seems in line with the Survival theme.  
 

Perhaps the answer is relearning how to be told “no”.  

You misunderstand... I'm referring to moving forward from the addition of just this one piece of content to the addition of future content (that may come in forms that we cannot even image ourselves yet).

'Majority rules" - without taking into consideration the minorities as well has historically resulted in "disenfranchised" minorities and outstanding issues that come back to haunt future populations (e.g. colonialism)... but this isn't the forum to be discussing politics... so lets just leave it as my philosophical preference and agree to disagree.

 

[Semple Fi]

8 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

You misunderstand... I'm referring to moving forward from the addition of just this one piece of content to the addition of future content (that may come in forms that we cannot even image ourselves yet).

'Majority rules" - without taking into consideration the minorities as well has historically resulted in "disenfranchised" minorities and outstanding issues that come back to haunt future populations (e.g. colonialism)... but this isn't the forum to be discussing politics... so lets just leave it as my philosophical preference and agree to disagree.

 

No room for politics in Survival, Nature doesn’t care about that either.

 I’d like to see Senator/Rep “Whoever” sew a pair of deerskin boots and/or start a fire with a magnifying glass. 
 

🙃

Edited April 17, 2023 by Semple Fi
Grammar

[UpUpAway95]

10 minutes ago, Semple Fi said:

No room for politics in Survival, Nature doesn’t care about that either.

 I’d like to see Senator/Rep “Whoever” sew a pair of deerskin boots and/or start a fire with a magnifying glass. 
 

🙃

Repeating... so lets just leave it as my philosophical preference and agree to disagree.

[hozz1235]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Repeating... so lets just leave it as my philosophical preference and agree to disagree.

Let me see if I can say this "majority rules" another way. 

Say you own a business that bakes and sells cookies.  You know from past sales, chocolate chip cookies sales are 80% of your total sales.  In the past you had sold Lemon cookies but they just weren't profitable (not as much as chocolate chip) so you discontinued them and made more CC cookies.  You had a few customers who complained that you no longer sold them. Would you be willing to bake less CC cookies (and displease your largest customer base) so that you could please the small percentage of customers who wanted the Lemon cookies?  What would happen to your profits?  What does a company need to stay in business?

You can't bake enough cookies to please everyone so wouldn't you naturally bake cookies to please the most people?

Edited April 17, 2023 by hozz1235

[UpUpAway95]

21 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

Let me see if I can say this "majority rules" another way. 

Say you own a business that bakes and sells cookies.  You know from past sales, chocolate chip cookies sales are 80% of your total sales.  In the past you had sold Lemon cookies but they just weren't profitable (not as much as chocolate chip) so you discontinued them and made more CC cookies.  You had a few customers who complained that you no longer sold them. Would you be willing to bake less CC cookies (and displease your largest customer base) so that you could please the small percentage of customers who wanted the Lemon cookies?  What would happen to your profits?  What does a company need to stay in business?

You can't bake enough cookies to please everyone so wouldn't you naturally bake cookies to please the most people?

That's not "majority rules" - that's supply and demand.  Still, if no one attempted to bring in new types of cookies and being somewhat "experimental" in their approaches to things, the business would likely stagnate and perhaps even meet on hard times as the tastes of their clientele changes and starts to "crave" something different.  As changes are made, old clients would also have to adapt their tastes and, perhaps, develop new favorites.  That's what I mean by "compromises."  The more both sides can stay "flexible" and "adaptive," the more likely that the business/client relationship will continue over the long term.😀

[ManicManiac]

I was more than content to let Raph's words stand on their own.  However, with the continued conversation and hearing more from those who play other modes, I suppose I'll add my voice too (once I've finished gathering my all thoughts on the more recent posts).

More to follow...

[hozz1235]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

That's not "majority rules" - that's supply and demand.  Still, if no one attempted to bring in new types of cookies and being somewhat "experimental" in their approaches to things, the business would likely stagnate and perhaps even meet on hard times as the tastes of their clientele changes and starts to "crave" something different.  As changes are made, old clients would also have to adapt their tastes and, perhaps, develop new favorites.  That's what I mean by "compromises."  The more both sides can stay "flexible" and "adaptive," the more likely that the business/client relationship will continue over the long term.😀

Supply and Demand determine price.  They did bring in new cookies (Lemon) and failed so they resorted to what was proven.  A compromise is typically "meeting half way" in a dispute.  As Raph implied, HL should not need to compromise on what their product is (and is working).

I'm just trying to make a point that the minority should not be determining action which could adversely affect the majority.  HL has finite resources and if they choose to allocate resources to X then they must take them from Y (Y being the majority here ;))

[UpUpAway95]

51 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

Supply and Demand determine price.  They did bring in new cookies (Lemon) and failed so they resorted to what was proven.  A compromise is typically "meeting half way" in a dispute.  As Raph implied, HL should not need to compromise on what their product is (and is working).

I'm just trying to make a point that the minority should not be determining action which could adversely affect the majority.  HL has finite resources and if they choose to allocate resources to X then they must take them from Y (Y being the majority here ;))

"Majority rules" implies that someone is still "ruling" the other.  Here, neither the minority or the majority should be "ruling" anything.  The business person (HL) is making business decisions and both the clients in the majority and in the minority have to "adapt/compromise" their expectations a bit when the business makes decisions that are "experimental" in nature.  The more adaptable both the majority and the minority can be... rather than locking in on only their "old favorite" cookie... the more likely the relationship will be long term.  From Raph's post, I believe he's indicated that HL is at least listening to both the majority and the minority in this case and are doing everything in their power to please (not placate) both in some way.  I commend them for that... regardless of what sort of future "cookies" they decide to spring on us to sample next.  I hope those cookies are limited only by THEIR imaginations... not the tendencies of players to staunchly stick with their personal "favorite" game difficulties.

Now, I'm REALLY not going to respond here anymore.  No offence to anyone on any side of this issue; but if I haven't explained my position well enough by now, there's really no hope that I can.

 

[Kranium]

tyranny of the majority

Quote

The tyranny of the majority (or tyranny of the masses) is an inherent weakness to majority rule in which the majority of an electorate pursues exclusively its own objectives at the expense of those of the minority factions. This results in oppression of minority groups comparable to that of a tyrant or despot

Anyway, I just wish folks would allow legit criticism to simply stand, rather than turning it into a war of attrition. I'd rather not see this official forum turn into an echo chamber. It's otherwise pleasant here.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Kranium

[UpUpAway95]

16 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

I did want to respond to his portion of your post.  If you are offended by the term "ruling", oh well, I didn't come up with it, but I interpret it simply that the majority have the largest number of "votes" (the will of the people) and generally becomes the way things are.  In history, if you were unwilling to accept that consensus, you could try to change public opinion in some way, or leave.  

Well that didn't last long... I'm going to resist your "ultimatum" and not leave.

This isn't a democracy.  It isn't a government of any kind. HL isn't "polling" for votes on anything either.  HL is making their decisions on whatever they feel "is right" for themselves being influence by whatever they feel influenced by... whether that happens to be a "majority" of their current client base or just an idea they think is "cool."

... and for the record, I never indicated that I was "offended" by the term... I simply said I disagreed with the "majority rules" concept in this matter.

Edited April 17, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[hozz1235]

15 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Well that didn't last long... I'm going to resist your "ultimatum" and not leave.

This isn't a democracy.  It isn't a government of any kind. HL isn't "polling" for votes on anything either.  HL is making their decisions on whatever they feel "is right" for themselves being influence by whatever they feel influenced by... whether that happens to be a "majority" of their current client base or just an idea they think is "cool."

... and for the record, I never indicated that I was "offended" by the term... I simply said I disagreed with the "majority rules" concept in this matter.

I didn't say you needed to leave, I was simply stating what happens in the real world.

None of us know what business model HL has adopted.  I assume they want to be successful and I'm simply arguing that if they want to please the majority of their player base, they would focus the majority of their time on that.  I think we can all agree on that despite your philosophical views.

And I've never suppressed anyone's opinion on here - one of the things I love about this forum.  I have an opinion and you have an opinion.  Our opinions differ and we are arguing why we have our opinions.  What's wrong with that?

Edited April 17, 2023 by hozz1235

[UpUpAway95]

21 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

I didn't say you needed to leave, I was simply stating what happens in the real world.

None of us know what business model HL has adopted.  I assume they want to be successful and I'm simply arguing that if they want to please the majority of their player base, they would focus the majority of their time on that.  I think we can all agree on that despite your philosophical views.

And I've never suppressed anyone's opinion on here - one of the things I love about this forum.  I have an opinion and you have an opinion.  Our opinions differ and we are arguing why we have our opinions.  What's wrong with that?

Merrely re-explaining then my use of "supply and demand" instead of "majority rules" - Demand sets more than price in the real world.  Demand determines which products go onto the shelves of most stores and which ones we never see.  As I explained before, "majority rules" implies that someone is "being ruled" by the majority.  HL is not being ruled by us.  They are being influenced by what they perceive are popular tastes (things that will help sell their product to more people in the future).  It's not the equivalent of "voting."

Not trying to change "public opinion" at all.  Not expecting either that my opinions are necessarily "in the majority" - sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't (like most people).

I also disagree with your statement:  "In history, if you were unwilling to accept that consensus, you could try to change public opinion in some way, or leave."  There are, IMO, many less divisive options in most cases.  

[Admin]

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