Crafting firearms (even on loper)

[MattD]

As the title says. 

I propose 2 possible firearms that can be crafted on all difficulties:

1) A "zip gun" or "pen gun" for self defense purposes only. 

If you don't know what that is, it's basically a thick metal tube that fires a single revolver cartridge* with a spring-loaded hammer that sets it off. It looks like a pen and can be made easily with the correct tools. You would need 6 scrap metal, quality tools, and the milling machine to craft it.

It can be used as a deterrent (like the revolver) against wildlife, but it isn't accurate or powerful enough to cause harm from a distance. However, up close or in a struggle it is very capable of killing a wolf quickly and affects timberwolf morale as well. Reloading is slow and must be done after each shot. 

Using it will also level the revolver firearm skill. 

* On interloper, there still isn't any revolver ammo, but you would be able to find casings that you can craft ammunition with. 

2) Muzzle-loading shotgun or musket for medium-range hunting and mild defense against bears and moose. 

Can be crafted from 15 scrap metal, oak (coming soon I think?) firewood, quality tools, and the milling machine. Unlike the zip gun that uses revolver cartridges, this only needs gun powder, cloth, and a projectile such as a lead ball (musket) or lead shot (shotgun). The cloth would be used for making wads that hold the projectile in the barrel. 1 cloth makes 5 wads. Reloading time will vary by skill level, but would have a 1-2 in-game minute reload time at level 1 rifle skill. Shooting it will level up the rifle skill as well. 

All the particulars are up for debate, but you get the basic idea. I don't think it would upset the game balance on interloper since it takes time and effort to actually craft. The bow would likely still be the best weapon on loper, but these would have a decent role to play in a run. 

 

[xanna]

I love the idea of making the milling machine uniquely useful for something. It feels like it's supposed to be for something, this is perfect. It also feels like it's a long quest to aim for, given the effort needed to craft, which is awesome, lots of fun.

The lead balls and lead shot: are you proposing a new loose ammunition type, or are we perhaps crafting these from car battery lead, on the ammo bench?

[MattD]

On 11/19/2022 at 1:58 PM, xanna said:

The lead balls and lead shot: are you proposing a new loose ammunition type, or are we perhaps crafting these from car battery lead, on the ammo bench?

I was thinking it should be crafted at the ammunition bench from car battery lead. Though, perhaps the shot could be made at a forge as well or with tools on a regular work bench. 

On 11/19/2022 at 1:58 PM, xanna said:

I love the idea of making the milling machine uniquely useful for something. It feels like it's supposed to be for something, this is perfect. It also feels like it's a long quest to aim for, given the effort needed to craft, which is awesome, lots of fun.

Exactly! I always felt like the milling machine wasn't really being used for anything. I feel making useful tools like these would be something that makes waiting for the Aurora worth it. Same could be said about the gunsmithing skill. This would be legitimate gunsmithing and not just ammo crafting. 

[xanna]

I absolutely love it. I wish I could upvote it again.

A thought I had is that the crafted firearms will have to be better in some way than the bow, or players don't have an incentive to craft it, since the bow is quicker and easier to craft, as the milling machines both require a lot of work to get to and to unlock the first time.

Is there an aspect that the pen gun and musket do better than the bow? Scaring Timberwolves, anything else? Oh, I see pen gun in a wolf struggle, that makes it an attractive option.

[MattD]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:16 AM, xanna said:

Is there an aspect that the pen gun and musket do better than the bow? Scaring Timberwolves, anything else? Oh, I see pen gun in a wolf struggle, that makes it an attractive option.

Yes, like you said, the pen gun is meant as an effective contingency in a wolf struggle. This makes it useful in all difficulties except pilgrim. The musket/shotgun would simply be a more powerful means for hunting and defense against larger predators. Particularly if it's loaded with shot, you would have a higher chance of a critical hit from a distance. Maybe even a higher chance of scaring off a bear. 

Ultimately, I feel the musket would be more of a player preference thing. It's an option that's there if you want it. The pen gun, at this stage of development of the game, would definitely be the most useful of the two. I feel if Hinterland ever decided to add more small game animals like squirrels or birds in the future, a shotgun-type weapon would have more of a place within the game than it does now. 

[Glacia]

There is a mod for what you want, it's called Cannery manufacturing:  https://github.com/ds5678/CanneryManufacturing/releases/tag/1.4.0 

 

[MattD]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:02 PM, Glacia said:

There is a mod for what you want, it's called Cannery manufacturing:  https://github.com/ds5678/CanneryManufacturing/releases/tag/1.4.0 

 

Thanks for sharing, Glacia, but I don't really see anything in that mod that involves actually crafting the weapons. The flare shell crafting is awesome though. For me, this is one game that I don't really feel the need to mod. Not knocking the mod community for this game! I just prefer it in its vanilla state. 

[Omnijack]

I would love to see an option to craft a Flintlock musket. Of course, it would need to be an option you toggle off / on at the start of your sandbox run ( so it doesn’t impact on players that want to enjoy the vanilla experience ).

I imagine that each sub-component of the musket would be its own crafting project…such as;

(1) using Cedar (oak ?) with simple tools, hacksaw and work bench to create the stock and frame.

(2) A monster 20-hour forging project using 12 scrap metal to make the smoothbore musket barrel

(3) creating the Flint lock itself might require work with a milling machine and sacrificing a lantern (dismantling it to get the sparker, for use in the lock mechanism).

(4) maybe 4 cured guts to make a carrying sling for it.

(5) a few rabbit pelts to make the accompanying shot pouch for keeping your lead balls in

(6) I suggest wadding be made from paper (I.e. newspaper) or cloth - to give a use for those papers we don’t need after fire starting rank 3.

of course, blackpowder to load the musket ( 0.07kg per shot ) and lead bullets made from car battery lead.

Performance should be the same as existing rifle, but single shot, with a long reload time.

I would love to see additional big end-game crafting projects…

[UpUpAway95]

There is currently an option in custom to activate guns while maintaining the other Loper settings.  As long as there are custom options, whether or not HL includes it in the standard Loper is not really a concern and I suspect they would opt to keep their standard Loper "gunless" and add custom options for those players who like to play Loper with guns (and avoid the objections from Loper players to prefer to continue to play without the guns).

I see no need for the addition of something like a pen gun.  People have been asking for the addition of a shotgun for a long time, and it is something I also see no real need for.  Personally, I probably would never bother with the added weight.  If others find such a thing useful and they want to craft it themselves rather than just find it, I have no objection to it being added (as long as there is a custom option similar or the current ones for the revolver and the rifle to enable or disable it).

[Luczhang1109]

On 2022/11/27 at PM2点25分, Omnijack said:

 

I would suggest that if the player has a sufficient level of gunsmithing (say 5) to make a 6 round single action cap and ball revolver that fires black powder .375/454 balls. I think if it's professional enough let's make them look like 1851 Navy or 1858 Army & Navy.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Luczhang1109

[conanjaguar]

11 hours ago, Luczhang1109 said:

I would suggest that if the player has a sufficient level of gunsmithing (say 5) to make a 6 round single action cap and ball revolver that fires black powder .375/454 balls. I think if it's professional enough let's make them look like 1851 Navy or 1858 Army & Navy.

This is likely far beyond the ability of our plane pilot / doctor’s ability to make.

On 11/27/2022 at 5:25 PM, Omnijack said:

(2) A monster 20-hour forging project using 12 scrap metal to make the smoothbore musket barrel

A concern with long forging times is that you cant interrupt it. On ‘Loper, a 20-hour forging time, you will take at least 25% condition damage from hunger and thirst.

[Luczhang1109]

On 1/29/2023 at 12:02 PM, conanjaguar said:

This is likely far beyond the ability of our plane pilot / doctor’s ability to make.

But if gunsmithing is superb, why not? Cap and Ball 6 shot single action revolvers should be conceivable.

[UTC-10]

We should not equate what the game terms "Master Gunsmith" with skilled, experienced real world gunsmiths who have workshops for their craft.

So far our "skill" is related to fixing firearms on a milling machine, casting generic bullets, mixing gunpowder, and reloading ammunition with no need for primers (certainly all simplification decisions by the devs).  We lack the kinds of materials, machinery and tools we might expect a real gunsmith would use to fashion a workable firearm from scratch.  

That said, the devs can by fiat say "you can craft a firearm" and work out the implementation but that would undercut the premise of what was the unplanned game difficulty called Interloper.