Trader in TLD?! NO!

[RossBondReturns]

Hinterland have always intended to introduce NPC's to Survival so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I've seen the Trader for myself.

[Mistral]

Well, even in the worst case scenario I can always ignore the trader and/or pretend it does not exist. That will do. Just like I have to ignore the fact that you cannot eat raw snow and instead have to carry around imaginary water bottles, or how the indoor temperatures are warm and static, for non logical reasons.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Mistral

[DaGnome91]

8 hours ago, RossBondReturns said:

Hinterland have always intended to introduce NPC's to Survival so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I've seen the Trader for myself.

This is so true, don't forget about it y'all!

Even if you feel you lost some of the isolation feeling and the scarcity of ressource, give HTL the benefit of doubt on this particular feature. I see much rant in here, and I actually wonder why: we've never been let down by the TLD-makers & lovers, why should we now?

We'll see whatever comes our way in less than a week, so I suggest we postpone that discussion after having seen that trader feature in game...

[Ghurcb]

1 hour ago, Mistral said:

I have to ignore the fact that you cannot eat raw snow

"I'd eat snow if the hypothermia wouldn't kill me." - Will Mackenzie

The snow has extremely low density. A bucket of snow would melt into a cup of water. And you WOULD NOT eat a bucket of snow, mainly, because it's cold. In a survival situation thirst is preferrable to hypothermia. 

[Ghurcb]

Here's my take on the trader idea. 

It probably won't fit the way survival is right now. And this is good. Tales from the Far Territory is supposed to feel different from the base game experience. Tales, shimmer fog, radio, item variants, and trader are intended to set the Far Territory apart from the rest of Great Bear.

I always thought that Wintermute lacks freedom. In all but one episode you're bound to one region. I'd really appreciate a certain mix of survival and story, where you're free to explore the world and have to survive on your own, but you still get to meet interesting characters who would give you new objectives to follow. This is why I'd prefer for trader to be an actual person who you can see, hear, and maybe even contact remotely on radio. If it will be a trading post where you leave your stuff and come back to find somethig else in its place, it's going to feel unfinished, as if Hinterland didn't have the time to make new models, animations, and record new voicelines (like how in early versions you'd harvest wood through a menu instead of directly interacting with sticks and fallen tree limbs).

I want for TFTFT to feel different from the rest of the game. 

But I'd also like to be able to turn the DLC features on and off (preferably, separately). 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Ghurcb

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

Here's my take on the trader idea. 

It probably won't fit the way survival is right now. And this is good. Tales from the Far Territory is supposed to feel different from the base game experience. Tales, shimmer fog, radio, item variants, and trader are intended to set the Far Territory apart from the rest of Great Bear.

I always thought that Wintermute lacks freedom. In all but one episode you're bound to one region. I'd really appreciate a certain mix of survival and story, where you're free to explore the world and have to survive on your own, but you still get to meet interesting characters who would give you new objectives to follow. This is why I'd prefer for trader to be an actual person who you can see, hear, and maybe even contact remotely on radio. If it will be a trading post where you leave your stuff and come back to find somethig else in its place, it's going to feel unfinished, as if Hinterland didn't have the time to make new models, animations, and record new voicelines (like how in early versions you'd harvest wood through a menu instead of directly interacting with sticks and fallen tree limbs).

I want for TFTFT to feel different from the rest of the game. 

But I'd also like to be able to turn the DLC features on and off (preferably, separately). 

Thank you for saying it better than I could.  Not terrible... just different.

If he's going to be accessible in the main the game (as long as he's activated within the DLC), I'd prefer him to be an actual person to whom we can talk as well.  I'd also like him to also wander... albeit, not showing up as frequently as, say, the Wandering Trader in Minecraft does.  I'd like him to be like Methuselah... where we can occasionally spot his campfire, sit down and maybe enjoy a hot coffee and some conversation and trade an item or two.  Since Methuselah is a character already in Wintermute, I think that would be in keeping with the spirit of the game.

If they have also decided to add in a feature where the player can call him on the radio and place an order, then I'd like the option to turn that off separately (ie - without turning off the trader entirely).  The idea of "mail order" in TLD is just something that doesn't appeal to me.  I'd rather chance meetings.

😀... and if I walk into a cave in HRV and see an Amazon logo painted on the wall, I'd think I'll puke! 😀

Edited November 29, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[hozz1235]

As is always the case in the game, if you don't like it, don't use it.

[Mistral]

6 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

"I'd eat snow if the hypothermia wouldn't kill me." - Will Mackenzie

The snow has extremely low density. A bucket of snow would melt into a cup of water. And you WOULD NOT eat a bucket of snow, mainly, because it's cold. In a survival situation thirst is preferrable to hypothermia. 

Les Stroud would 100% disagree with you, as would I. Eating snow in survival situation is perfectly fine in most cases, especially if you are sweating. Of course if you are already freezing or are about to freeze it's not recommended, and I also wouldn't touch the surface snow, but otherwise it's fine. No-one would die of thirst in winter.

The game could have a mechanic against only eating snow.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Mistral

[Leeanda]

Doesn't eating snow give you stomach cramps?  I'm sure I saw it on TV years ago.  

There is an alternative to snow but I wouldn't try it.😊. 

[UpUpAway95]

20 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Doesn't eating snow give you stomach cramps?  I'm sure I saw it on TV years ago.  

There is an alternative to snow but I wouldn't try it.😊. 

Not if it's clean.  I used to eat snow all the time as a kid and I don't remember getting cramps.  It doesn't really do a good job of quenching thirst though; and these days, bacteria in the snow and toxic particles that fall with the snow due to air pollutants is an issue (and even the air in northern BC contains pollutants).  Sure, the top layer is probably the dirtiest, but that doesn't mean the layers underneath are clear or even that, at one time, they weren't the top layer as well.  Frankly, I'd boil it first if at all possible or melt it somehow and drink it through a lifestraw... just to be safe.

Edited November 29, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Ghurcb]

13 minutes ago, Mistral said:

Les Stroud would 100% disagree with you, as would I. Eating snow in survival situation is perfectly fine, especially if you are sweating. Of course if you are already freezing it's not recommended, and I also wouldn't touch the surface snow, but otherwise it's fine. No-one would die of thirst in winter.

I've no idea who Les Stroud is (probably some survivalist?), but I looked into this topic and as it turns out, everything that I said is correct. Fresh snow is 20 times less dense than water, so in order to get one cup of water, you'd have to eat 20 cups of fresh snow. You'd have a bit more luck with settled snow, as it's only 5 times less dense than water, but being more dense it would cause hypothermia even faster. And that's what it boils down to, if you eat snow, you freeze from the inside. And to combat hypothermia your body would have to accelerate a lot of processes, which would increase your water consuption. 

Ironically, eating snow to avoid dehydration, has a potential TO CAUSE dehydration.

[UpUpAway95]

3 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

I've no idea who Les Stroud is (probably some survivalist?), but I looked into this topic and as it turns out, everything that I said is correct. Fresh snow is 20 times less dense than water, so in order to get one cup of water, you'd have to eat 20 cups of fresh snow. You'd have a bit more luck with settled snow, as it's only 5 times less dense than water, but being more dense it would cause hypothermia even faster. And that's what it boils down to, if you eat snow, you freeze from the inside. And to combat hypothermia your body would have to accelerate a lot of processes, which would increase your water consuption. 

Ironically, eating snow to avoid dehydration, has a potential TO CAUSE dehydration.

The one video I saw of Les Stroud talking about eating snow showed him taking it from a roadside ditch - ugh. 😀

[Leeanda]

There's certainly not an issue with the amount of snow available in this game.😁. Maybe a means of catching snow to keep it from ground dirt  would be a small way to fill time and prevent the dirt issue?    

I haven't really eaten snow except catching the odd snowflake in my mouth as a teen but I don't remember it having any side effects . 

Maybe drinking your own pee is more practical  and safer.  I don't think htl would bring that into the game though.

[UpUpAway95]

7 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

There's certainly not an issue with the amount of snow available in this game.😁. Maybe a means of catching snow to keep it from ground dirt  would be a small way to fill time and prevent the dirt issue?    

I haven't really eaten snow except catching the odd snowflake in my mouth as a teen but I don't remember it having any side effects . 

Maybe drinking your own pee is more practical  and safer.  I don't think htl would bring that into the game though.

Here's an article from a distinguished Canadian university on the subject:  https://www.mcgilltribune.com/sci-tech/dark-secret-behind-snow-pollution-643215/

[Leeanda]

6 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Here's an article from a distinguished Canadian university on the subject:  https://www.mcgilltribune.com/sci-tech/dark-secret-behind-snow-pollution-643215/

Thank you..  

Seems very interesting research. And worrying. 

[UpUpAway95]

23 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Thank you..  

Seems very interesting research. And worrying. 

I wouldn't be too worried about it... odds are you are never actually going to be in a situation where you are going to have to eat snow or even drink untreated water in order to survive.  If the Les Strouds of the world want to be stupid about it, they can... it's their cancer.

[Leeanda]

4 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I wouldn't be too worried about it... odds are you are never actually going to be in a situation where you are going to have to eat snow or even drink untreated water in order to survive.  If the Les Strouds of the world want to be stupid about it, they can... it's their cancer.

Well I hope  I or anyone else doesn't have to!   Pure as the driven snow has kind of lost its meaning though.

[Kranium]

So much overreaction lol "seismic"? Pollutants in snow? Yeah, I get it. Y'all also pretty much have your mouth on a tailpipe breathing air in a city...

[Leeanda]

Just now, Kranium said:

So much overreaction lol "seismic"? Pollutants in snow? Yeah, I get it. Y'all also pretty much have your mouth on a tailpipe breathing air in a city...

Shouldn't we all be worried about pollution?   I'm not saying I'm panicking about it,just that the state of our planet is cause for concern.. 

[UpUpAway95]

55 minutes ago, Kranium said:

So much overreaction lol "seismic"? Pollutants in snow? Yeah, I get it. Y'all also pretty much have your mouth on a tailpipe breathing air in a city...

Well, if everyone moved to the country, it would become the big city... and a roadside ditch isn't a great source of clean snow regardless of whether or not you take the time to sweep away the top inch just because it's a lovely color of black and pink, which is an algae BTW (here's the link to Les Stroud's video):

https://www.mcgilltribune.com/sci-tech/dark-secret-behind-snow-pollution-643215/

He also fails to consider that the snow he's eating has been sitting in that ditch for some time (since it's springtime in Colorado) and as the surface melts, the contaminants from it seep into the layers below.  So, even the snow that looks clean, likely is far from it.  I believe Colorado also uses road salt, so there's likely a toxic cocktail there from that as well.  Yes Les... "nice cold water... yuck!"

Also, when people talk about how eating snow lowers body temperature and whether or not that should be a concern, keep in mind there is a difference at -40C when your body is already struggling to maintain your core temp and at 0C ( light jacket weather in Colorado in springtime).  As I said, I ate snow as a kid (much to my mother's chagrin) and I never got hypothermia from it.  As far as satiating thirst goes though, mom's hot teas and chocolates were much, much more effective.

Edited November 29, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[SpanishMoss]

My guess for how they intend to implement the trader will have to do with the shortwave radio.

They (hopefully) won't ever actually have another person, but rather someone directing you to caches, for a price. For example, you leave something in a bin somewhere, and are given instructions to find a cache across the map, thus preventing you from ever encountering the actual person

[Bearimpaler101]

10 hours ago, Leeanda said:

Doesn't eating snow give you stomach cramps?  I'm sure I saw it on TV years ago.  

There is an alternative to snow but I wouldn't try it.😊. 

 

10 hours ago, Mistral said:

Les Stroud would 100% disagree with you, as would I. Eating snow in survival situation is perfectly fine in most cases, especially if you are sweating. Of course if you are already freezing or are about to freeze it's not recommended, and I also wouldn't touch the surface snow, but otherwise it's fine. No-one would die of thirst in winter.

The game could have a mechanic against only eating snow.

 

9 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Not if it's clean.  I used to eat snow all the time as a kid and I don't remember getting cramps.  It doesn't really do a good job of quenching thirst though; and these days, bacteria in the snow and toxic particles that fall with the snow due to air pollutants is an issue (and even the air in northern BC contains pollutants).  Sure, the top layer is probably the dirtiest, but that doesn't mean the layers underneath are clear or even that, at one time, they weren't the top layer as well.  Frankly, I'd boil it first if at all possible or melt it somehow and drink it through a lifestraw... just to be safe.

 

9 hours ago, Leeanda said:

There's certainly not an issue with the amount of snow available in this game.😁. Maybe a means of catching snow to keep it from ground dirt  would be a small way to fill time and prevent the dirt issue?    

I haven't really eaten snow except catching the odd snowflake in my mouth as a teen but I don't remember it having any side effects . 

Maybe drinking your own pee is more practical  and safer.  I don't think htl would bring that into the game though.

It's always play just don't eat the yellow snow!

Or the black snow next to the road...

[k0s0ff]

59 minutes ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

It's always play just don't eat the yellow snow!

 

😂 And also wash your hands after eating😂

[k0s0ff]

I think that all these arguments about the trader are fruitless and until we see what the development team has prepared.

I'm fine. There will be an NPC. I'll be fine with this conversation on the radio. It's okay for me to talk through the door. I'm fine with everything. I love the game and I won't love it any less.

 

[UpUpAway95]

4 hours ago, k0s0ff said:

😂 And also wash your hands after eating😂

Shouldn't that be "wash your hands before eating?"