Trader in TLD?! NO!

[mayimbe]

Well, I would love to have the merchant to make deals either through shortwave radio or whatever.

[Bearimpaler101]

3 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

What if there were other marooned people as well?  You could trade with them.

Would you really be trading or would you be working together like you do in cooperative mode.

[hozz1235]

15 hours ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

Would you really be trading or would you be working together like you do in cooperative mode.

Depends on the relationship with the person I suppose.

[Cr41g]

I may be in the minority and looking forward to a trading / barter system mechanic... the way I see it Hinterland has crafted a well thought out, remarkable game... I see no reason to doubt them now

[stratvox]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:06 AM, Guest jeffpeng said:

Maybe the Trader will be an aurora infused bear that got struck by lighting, raising it's IQ to 145, and is now making a profit selling canned moose to starving survivors,

 

On 11/8/2022 at 4:26 PM, Bearimpaler101 said:

I play stranded deep and your marooned at sea what are you gonna trade with crabs?

Yeah, a drunken bear crab on a rock just a bit east of Vivec. I hear he pays top dollar for daedric armour and weapons.

Edited November 15, 2022 by stratvox

[bascolais]

hi,

maybe the trader is a man or a woman, forest talker or not, already dead.

but its shop could have specific items, and useful information on the island, on specific localizations, that can have other items or histories, or leading to something else.

as of today, in survival mode, we're alone, all are dead, frozen. so why not.

pretty sure Hinterland will do it well, as ever.

[Glacia]

With the current info, likely the trader it's actually a person and we could interact directly with him/her. 

There is currently a theory on Reddit, using the dev diary as a proof, of course this can't be confirmed at the moment.

Im not sure about the trader, i think people magnify a minor feature that can't really damage the game concept or feeling. As said in many older posts, you can just ignore the feature if you don't like it, surely the trader it's a rare event and most of the time you don't use the feature at all.

I think TLD it's a game capable of implement several new mechanics, features and feelings without breaking the core game concept, instead, making it much better.

[RossBondReturns]

I can't find it in all his myriad of tweets and responses but he said in essence to someone concerned about The Trader-

Have we ever done anything that was detrimental to the game. A lot of thought has gone into the Trader and we are very, very careful with The Long Dark. I believe that with the great care we have been taking throughout the creation of The Long Dark that we should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this addition.

This response got multiple retweets and a ton of likes.

Not to mention that only the folks at Hinterland know what is going on in the Sandbox as we move into the future.

Because of their track record I personally trust them in this matter.

[RegentRelic]

Remember when in Wintermute you shoved hundreds of sticks into Gray Mother until she spit out  shoes. If there has to be a trader, hopefully he doesn’t work that way.

[Karl Grylls]

I dont see any reason to be worried about the trader. Raph will give us an update video explaining it. Then you will see how the Trader works. When starting your new run, you turn it off or on, whatever you like 🤷‍♂️

3 hours ago, Glacia said:

Nice attention with the boots here. I had opened a speculation thread saying that this picture is a trader. If you want you can check it out here

the rifle is hanging there by a shoulder strap. That would be dope to get that. A way to keep the hands free for working/pulling the travois and be able to quick-equip a weapon.

Have i mentioned that i like the crafting and equip system from The Last of Us 1? (remastered)

Edited November 27, 2022 by Karl Grylls

[UpUpAway95]

On 10/30/2022 at 5:52 PM, Glacia said:

While im certaintly against any kind of a Trader on this game, we should not be concerned before more official info be released.

A trader can mean a lot of things actually; there are several survival games with a trader system and no one use the same concept.

Forest talkers seems to fit incredible well because we already have some experiencies with this group in Wintermute, and we have never see one directly (Just talking to a door). I can imagine a kind of note in some place, 'Give me X items in X place at X day', then comeback the next day to get my reward.

For a example:

- After you stay several days in your base in mystery lake or other region, you wake up and notice a note on your door.

- You read the note, it says 'I need medical suplies, i have munition or another resources for you if you can help me'. 'Leave the supplies in the cave near the lake'.

- You leave the medical supplies and comeback the next day; the forest talker already take the supplies and leave behind some valuable resources for you'.

- While you are still an strange and possible enemy for the forest talkers, you periodically gain reputation with them; Then you can get trading notes more frenquently in some kind of 'Quest' style, just like wintermute.

You never interact with an NPC or the game breaks the loneliness feeling; even if you know 'Hey, something is alive', you still play 100% of the game alone and without human interaction than a rare note.

 

Just an example of how TLD can have a trader without actually breaking the game economy or feeling, of course there are a lot of viable options. So, just be patience and wait for more official info 😎

The existence of a trader, who essentially provides an infinitely restock of potentially every item in the game does, IMO, unavoidably change the core concept of the game as it was originally presented... that one would eventually, unavoidably die due to running out of resources.  No longer can the player think that once they use up that "last" something there is simply no more of it to be found.  They will now simply go to the trader for another of it.

 In truth though, TLD has been moving away from that concept for ages now as more areas and more "luxury" items were being added with every update.  For example, with the addition of mills, the limited availability of whetstones was no longer an issue.  Perhaps it even began with the addition of beachcombing, when many finite items (e.g. cloth, matches, saplings) became restockable (albeit very slowly).  It became truly possible to survive forever in the game world.

Edited November 27, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[A Lamp]

I think the trader idea is to help new players/players that struggle to survive in tld.

Perhaps it won't even be available in interloper, but one thing is certain: Due to all the fear and criticism the idea got, it will most likely be toggleable in custom mode.

[UpUpAway95]

On 11/8/2022 at 2:26 PM, Bearimpaler101 said:

I play stranded deep and your marooned at sea what are you gonna trade with crabs? But in the long dark there is. (Or was) people and civilization. you could trade with them whereas stranded deep is iin the middle of the ocean.

I agree (and hope) that there will be an option to disable the trader in custom mode.  I don't see why having him not be available in "interloper" would change anything, but I suppose it's possible... since the "standard" interloper setting is merely a HL-chosen selection of custom options for the most part and they could choose to the "disable trader" option for that "standard" difficulty.  The thing is, DLC changes the game regardless - interloper (standard) is no longer standard since some people will be playing it without the benefits the DLC provides and some will (depending on whether or not they've purchased the DLC).  If anything good comes of this... I  hope it's finally the end of this "interloper" egotism on this website.

ETA:  The idea that an item is in finite/extremely limited supply was something that was acutely felt at all difficulties when the game first released.  Using the last rifle cartridge back then actually meant using the last one... irreplaceable, no more to be had.  Death was truly inevitable.  That hasn't been the case in this game for a long time.

Edited November 27, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[RegentRelic]

53 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Death was truly inevitable.  That hasn't been the case in this game for a long time.

Hinterland said they were updating beach coming. Maybe they will make less of an infinite resource. In that I don’t think when the system was introduced Hinterland knew the extremes it would be taken to. It all so looks like with the changes to fishing and “safe house customization” that late game going to be made more interesting.

[UpUpAway95]

6 minutes ago, RegentRelic said:

Hinterland said they were updating beach coming. Maybe they will make less of an infinite resource. In that I don’t think when the system was introduced Hinterland knew the extremes it would be taken to. It all so looks like with the changes to fishing and “safe house customization” that late game going to be made more interesting.

Perhaps you're right.  I'm actually more hopeful about a TLD 2 coming out that restores that core concept by, as I suggested in a post, having all difficulties start the game equipped identically but all your equipment will eventually break (rate dependent on difficulty) and your have to make do with what you find (and everything is finite).  The only infinite thing would be that the game's environment increasingly gets worse over time - animals get thinner, respawns deplete to 0, weather gets ever colder.  In short, the game truly gets more challenging as time goes on... ending only and inevitably in the player character's demise (e.g. the old Tetris concept before people learned how to hypertap and finally reached the max level of the game).

Edited November 27, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Glacia]

1 hour ago, A Lamp said:

Perhaps it won't even be available in interloper, but one thing is certain: Due to all the fear and criticism the idea got, it will most likely be toggleable in custom mode.

Or even in any run, just before the start.

Im not sure about the Trader, there are several fair and well-made posts against and in favor. However, no other feature have been so controversial and shocking in the community before.

I think the best idea for TLD developers it's actually tell us what exactly they want to do with the trader and what is the concept/purpose of the feature. Then, let the community give a more accurate feedback and if needed, discard the feature before it comes to the game if it just feels bad for the game atmosphere.

 

[Glacia]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

 In truth though, TLD has been moving away from that concept for ages now as more areas and more "luxury" items were being added with every update.  For example, with the addition of mills, the limited availability of whetstones was no longer an issue.  Perhaps it even began with the addition of beachcombing, when many finite items (e.g. cloth, matches, saplings) became restockable (albeit very slowly).  It became truly possible to survive forever in the game world.

I have to disagree with this. Infinite survival have been possible for years, even without several now renewable or 'luxury' items.

Even if the game is hard and it's maded to make late-game a hell, the players will always find a way to survive. I still remember the guy who survived around 5000 days, staying naked in the traper cabin and using tons of snares to catch endless rabbits.

Anyways, there is not an only or 'intended' way to play. Every single player give their runs a sense or goals, from the pilgrim players with a massive stockpile of supplies to the hardcore inteloper players, all the ways to play the game are valid.

 

 

[RegentRelic]

Wildlife decay rate is hardly noticeable and caps out before it forces you to move. The temperature one also never gets low enough to change the way you play. Part of that is the fact that freezing damage is 20 an hour even  if it’s -50 and you just went for a swim.

[UpUpAway95]

35 minutes ago, Glacia said:

I have to disagree with this. Infinite survival have been possible for years, even without several now renewable or 'luxury' items.

Even if the game is hard and it's maded to make late-game a hell, the players will always find a way to survive. I still remember the guy who survived around 5000 days, staying naked in the traper cabin and using tons of snares to catch endless rabbits.

Anyways, there is not an only or 'intended' way to play. Every single player give their runs a sense or goals, from the pilgrim players with a massive stockpile of supplies to the hardcore inteloper players, all the ways to play the game are valid.

 

 

Not true... go back to when ML was the only zone.  Animal spawns were always infinite, but ways to kill them and ways to light fires were not.  As I indicated, it was a "feeling" that death was inevitable and that you would hit a point where there was nothing left to do to survive.  It lingered for a long time, but now new players no longer really feel that way.  There's always a way to acquire more of practically everything in the game... and yes, that feeling began to shift years ago.  What you cite is one extreme example, but not the general feeling prevalent in new players... what I was addressing was the general feeling of the game.  Do you honestly feel that in today's TLD you'll ever be reduced to living in one cabin, naked, keeping a fire going 24/7 and killing rabbits in order to survive forever in game?

I never said that playing the game in any way was invalid.  This game has become, over the years, what it is... and that's just reality.  It's become more and more about basic living forever in the environment (which becomes static after about 50 days), period.  Yes, all ways to play the game are valid and should be considered valid by everyone.  I've always been an advocate for even more custom options and for the validation of custom games by allowing the progression of feats within those games in addition to the standard difficulties.  It would be nice to see the end of "interloper" egotism... it still doesn't change the fact that the "feeling" that death from simply running out of things and options is no longer present in the game.  Death now primarily comes from being beaten in combat with various animals.  It feels like a different game than when I started playing it.

That the DLC adds base building and a trader is simply an indication that the trend moving away from that feeling of scarcity is continuing.  Nothing more.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[mayimbe]

Well, I am in favor of having a merchant.

[Kranium]

I imagine we won't actually see anyone. It'll be a remote interaction, thus ignorable at worst. I don't care much either way, nor do I understand how it could be immersion breaking. I can't step over a small limb & ingested meds don't work unless I click on the proper ailment, fer Pete's sake, what's more immersion breaking than that?

Edited November 28, 2022 by Kranium

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, mayimbe said:

Well, I am in favor of having a merchant.

I'm not saying I'm against it... only pointing out that it does further change one of the old core concepts of the game... scarcity... a general feeling that has been slowly disappearing from the game for ages and ages now.  Regardless of how it is implemented, it can certainly be ignored and never used by the player.  It may take many trips or reloads to get what you want and likely things will be expensive.  The trader may also be tough to reach.  Ultimately though the semantics of it aren't really that important.  It likely means that virtually anything is available in an unlimited supply.

As I indicated to another post, I kind of believe TLD is beyond getting that initial feeling of scarcity back, regardless.  I'm more hopeful for a TLD2 to do that.

Edited November 28, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[xanna]

38 minutes ago, Kranium said:

I imagine we won't actually see anyone. It'll be a remote interaction, thus ignorable at worst. I don't care much either way, nor do I understand how it could be immersion breaking. I can't step over a small limb & ingested meds don't work unless I click on the proper ailment, fer Pete's sake, what's more immersion breaking than that?

I know what you mean, but I think that breaking immersion by reminding you you are driving a video game not wrapping bandages, and breaking it by taking away the 'I am completely alone' certainty we're used to are of very different natures. (Though I know that's not the only thing people are concerned about.)

[hozz1235]

48 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

It likely means that virtually anything is available in an unlimited supply.

I don't believe HL will do this.  This is all we have at this point - pretty vague (which I like):

TRADER

A source of rare goods and useful information, for a price.

[UpUpAway95]

25 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

I don't believe HL will do this.  This is all we have at this point - pretty vague (which I like):

TRADER

A source of rare goods and useful information, for a price.

Yes... a source of RARE goods.  So, I can't see how they would be able to avoid making these rare goods available throughout the duration the player may play... meaning if they can buy one rifle (shown in the image), then likely days, week, months later, they'll be able to buy another.  Restocking of his inventory might not be frequent; but that still means that, given the open-ended nature of this game, it is technically unlimited.

The alternative, of course, is that he never restocks his inventory at all... which means he eventually becomes a trader with nothing to trade.  Given that he's DLC, I don't see that happening.  Even if that is the case, the player will know of one definite source of "rare goods" - kind of defeating randomizing the loot tables, don't you think?

Again, I'm not saying this is a terrible thing.  I enjoy lots of games that have traders in them.  it just makes this game feel different than it was early on.  That's all.  I've stopped looking for ways in this game to recapture that sort of tension about running out of things... and I'm throwing my hopes for that into a TLD2 at some point.