Where did Molly find Astrid

[Razum]

Hi guys,

this may have been answered anywhere else, but I haven't found anything. So I just wanted to start some speculation. Despite knowing how Blackrock fits into great bear, it's still unclear (for me), where Astrid was laying when Molly found and rescued her. In the cutscene we see a tunnel. Astrid is laying between some birch trees.

Most likely it's the tunnel between Milton (where the bus crashed) and Southern Keepers Path. (ingame screenshot)

The green sign there says 'Milton'. Now ingame it does not look anything like in the cutscene. In the cutscene Molly comes from the left of the street and there are trees. Ingame theres immediately rock (and there are many other differences, all in all, it's just not the same). Between here in Keepers path and PV there is no other tunnel, so the cutscene cannot show another tunnel there. Also this street connects to Blackrock as well as PV. https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1845912645712259311/BE889EA7CAF7A004E14571D76E54BBBA69BDFFA1/ The tunnel from the crashed bus does as well, because we know the bus should drive to Blackrock and Astrid landed in PV. It's plausible, that they are the same street.

So 2 options here: The tunnel from KP is the other end of the tunnel in MT or not.

If MT and KP don't connect through this one tunnel, there are 2 other options:
First: there are at least 2 separate tunnels between MT and KP (maybe a region in between, this road still being the direct connection) and Molly found Astrid at the end of the first tunnel. Astrid would have made it through the first tunnel and Molly came to here through the second tunnel, which ends in KP. What we see in the cutscene is the end of the first tunnel what we see ingame is the end of the second tunnel - asynchronicity solved. Pretty unlikely, why would Molly just randomly go through the second tunnel?
Second: The bus tunnel in MT doesn't lead to KP, but still to Blackrock and PV. Also the tunnel in KP leads to MT (as the sign says). 
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1845912989411076811/48D5EF219C99A604EFEE63DF6873E1D9DCAA6B3A/ From Blackrock theres only one road that leads away. That's south at the blocked bridge. It leads directly to Keepers Path (north end). The only other option where the bus tunnel could lead would be to PV and from there to Blackrock. But theres no road from PV that leads in that direction other than the one connecting to KP.

So let's assume MT and KP connect directly through this tunnel. It would all make sense, it's possible, that Molly was out there hunting (still pretty far from farmstead, but believable), but there is this asynchronicity between the cutscene and survival mode. That could just be some planning difference as back when Ep. 3 was made nobody designed how all these things connect and the environment in the cutscene is just a placeholder. But on the other hand, it wouldn't be hard to design the ingame tunnel ending after the cutscene as it doesn't change very much.

I'm 90% sure, that it's the same tunnel. But what do you think?

[greentea]

I haven't explored PV much in-game, so I probably am not qualified to say this (and maybe you mentioned this in your post? I'm not sure). But given the location of Molly's house in Pleasant Valley, I would say that the tunnel would be near the western side of the region. I don't know if there's a tunnel there and if you mentioned it, but it's just what came to my mind. I doubt Molly would have been able to carry Astrid and her gun for very long, so I assume it must be near the western side.

[piddy3825]

Hey @Razum,
considering you access the Gate Keepers South from PV where there is no tunnel, I'm curious how far Molly did actually travel from the farmhouse in order to find 
Astrid in that copse of birch trees?

here's the scene from PV before crossing over into Gate Keeper's South

here's the scene looking at the tranistion from Gate Keeper's South to PV

Here's the world map as it sits, making me question how much territory did Molly actual cover before finding Astrid?
We know that Astrid was last seen in Mountain Town, according to Grey Mother and that she probably ran into the convicts from the bus
before escaping from them and subsequently being found by Molly.   It sure would be nice to see a completely updated map showing all the areas, 
Gate Keeper's North and South.  I too, get the impression that the blocked tunnel with the bus in Milton led to Blackrock but that sure seems like a very long
way for Molly to have travelled, as to not be feasible.

I'd venture to guess that the cutscene is probably based more artistic license than any actual continuity to the game map.  
Having a tunnel at the transition between PV and GKS would make a lotta sense, dontcha think?

 

for reference, this is at the other end of the PV map, "the end of the road" if you continue to follow the road past the car as far as you go.
No transition to anywhere, just a dead end.

Edited June 20, 2022 by piddy3825
spelling

[Razum]

Thanks for you answers.
'the end of the road' is very unlikely obviously to be a connection to MT. But as I think about it, we don't know where Astrid ventured before landing in PV. So there could possibly be a tunnel and Molly found Astrid there (and Astrid just came from a completely different place). Still doesn't look like in the cutscene and we would have to speculate over new regions, which is uncertain.

I don't know, how certain it is to say that the cutscene wasn't oriented on game continuity, since the PV map existed for long back then so they could have planned the cutscene better. If they didn't, this discussion would be over. But I like it, so I'll just assume for the sake of this, that they planned it.

The thing is, on the west side of PV theres no tunnel. The only road leaving there is the one at long curve, which now connects to GKS. Back when episode 3 was made, they pretty surely knew, that theres no tunnel. The next tunnel in west direction from farmstead is actually the one in GKS. And it's the only tunnel which is in reasonable distant to travel for Molly, despite still being pretty far away.

I just looked up the discussion again with Molly and Astrid. All Astrid talks about there Milton. And she says "All I remember is the tunnel, the wolves, being chased, and then wandering forever" That makes it certain, that the tunnel where Molly found Astrid leads to Milton. In episode 1 we learn that the bus crashed when carrying the prisoners to Blackrock. So it's certain, that the bus tunnel leads to Blackrock. And Astrid went in there fleeing from the prisoners. It's a long way to GKS (and Blackrock and PV) but it all fits up. Walking all the way with probably no food and water and being chased by wolves, Astrid is of course in bad shape when finally getting to the exit. Maybe it was storming in the moment she left, so she just went a few meters and collapsed.
Molly said "By the time I got you here (meaning farmstead), there was no way I was carrying you upstairs" and said, she dragged Astrid more than carrying her to the house, which implies, the point, where she found Astrid, is pretty far away from farmstead. So it could be GKS. Probably Molly wasn't just hunting but searching for something, so she went farther away and found Astrid.

[UTC-10]

I always assumed, since there was no other location in Pleasant Valley that would be suitable (Wintermute needs and developer's discretion), that what is now Keeper's Pass South was where Astrid had been found or at least on the path.  Probably further from Mirthless Fork than has been displayed as possible in the game as I expect the wrecked tractor-trailer rig filling the tunnel was put there because Hinterland wanted to limit how much further they would have had to otherwise design the path towards Milton at this time.  

I do not consider that tunnel, for the most part, to be the same tunnel, just the other end, that the bus had its accident near Milton itself.  Although I would concede that it would be a pretty long distance for Molly to just wander, I would assume that beyond this blocked tunnel at Mirthless Fork, there were open space and more tunnels of varying length, since it was rather mountainous terrain, until she got to the tunnel where Astrid had collapsed nearby.  So seemingly inconsistent land features would not be out of the question from what episode 3 had displayed.  

I do wonder if that path from Mirthless Fork/Keeper's Pass South would eventually be opened up to Milton and beyond to Perseverance Mills region?  The broken bus can still largely block the tunnel outside of Milton, since it was a fixture in Wintermute, and the path might require either a rope climb, a hand climb, or a traverse through a cave to get to Milton to continue beyond the town.  Of course that would make access to Milton a whole lot easier and might make for two transition zones - Keeper's Pass South to Milton and Milton to Perseverance Mills region.  I guess we'll see how that works out.