New affliction: FAINT


Ghurcb

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"I think, I'm gonna faint" - says Survivor. Little do they know, it's never going to happen.

I, personally, don't like the way fatigue works right now.

First off, "recommended encumbrance" decrease is more of an annoyance, than it is an actual problem.

Secondly, the fact that this decrease starts at 50% fatigue makes it way too different to the other three needs (their depletion doesn't really harm you until they reach 0%). That also discourages players from letting their fatigue go below 50%, which means, Survivor can only sleep for 6 hours in a row. This can't be healthy, right?

And last, but not least, when fatigue reaches zero, Survivor can keep going for 96 hours, fueled by nothing but their willpower and energy bars. And once these 96 hours are over Survivor drops dead, fading into the long dark.

That's not how sleep deprivation works. You can't just refuse to sleep. You won't stay awake until your last breath.

 

The solution? You've seen the title.

 

New affliction: FAINT

It would work similarly to hypothermia. Once your energy reaches zero, you get a "faint risk" affliction.

Faint_risk_icon.png.6a7398c1b560fbddbb26491c5e9d641a.png

It would go from 0% to 100% in 4 hours (that is, if your energy meter is empty). When it hits 100%, you get a "faint" affliction.  

Faint_icon1.png.3e428c8b192d50e435dfeb22e70e1092.png

Once you get it, the game is on! You WILL fall asleep at any moment in the next 5-30 minutes. There's no way of knowing how much time you have at your disposal, so you have to act fast. Do you build a fire while you can, or do you crawl towards the closest shelter, or maybe you finally use this bedroll to fall asleep on your own terms? The choice is yours.

Sleeping would decrease faint chance by 5%/hr. This way, even after you get 12 hours of sleep, you might still have up to 40% of faint risk (depending on how high it was when you went to bed). This can be seen as a long-term consequence of sleep deprivation.

Coffee and energy drinks would not affect your faint risk directly, but they will stop its growth by filling your fatigue bar.

As to the emergency stims... Well, here's what their description says: "Emergency steroid injection. Will provide a short-burst of energy. Then you´ll collapse from exhaustion. Use as last resort!". Yep, they just inflict "faint" once your timer's up. Pick your poison.

 

Okay, fine. You passed out. What's next? You sleep for an hour restoring 1/12 of your energy, wasting the usual amount of calories and water ...slowly freezing to death if the temperature is below zero. When you wake up your faint risk is set to 75%, giving you another hour to find a proper place to sleep.

I know, what some of you might think "-25% to faint risk? That's more than the -5%/hr you mention before. This system can be exploited!". Well, think again, because whenever you pass out, your condition takes a hit (let's say, -20%). Is it worth the risk? Decide for yourselves.

 

Some of you might say, that such a change would make The Long Dark way too difficult. And... I would agree. This change turns fatigue into too big of a threat.

A trade must be made. There has to be some way to balance it. To make the fatigue less punishing. But what are we willing to sacrifice?

We all know it has to be carry capacity reduction. It has to be nerfed. Let's say, it would start at 25% instead of 50%. It would make perfect sence!

25% IS a low number of percents, so it WOULD make sence to receive some sort of a debuff when going below it. And realistically, having your carry capacity lowered, means you're tired. And I wouldn't say, that person who is TIRED to this point, would be JUST LIKE NEW after only 6 hours of sleep. But if someone is in need of 9 hours of sleep, yeah, this person is starting to exhaust their resources.

 

So... What else is there to say?

If you have any additions, questions, or criticisms, make sure to reply. Maybe this way this wish of mine will stay on the first page long enough for someone at Hinterland to notice it.

Take care!

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Another way to rebalance the game to account for FAINT mechanic would be to allow sleeping on the floor. It could have a "cold floor penalty" instead of "warm bed bonus", not to make bedrolls obsolete.

Sure, it's more comfortable to sleep in a bed, but in a survival scenario... You don't always have the privilege to make this choice.

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I like the 50% tired increase in encumbrance.  Player has to be careful to not get stuck on a ledge after climbing part way up a rope.  It makes a player think twice about starting a rope climb when just above the 50% mark and how much under the weight limit they need to be so they can take a quick rest on the ledge to regain stamina to finish the climb without having to drink coffee, pop a stim, drop additional items or risk sleeping on the ledge to get their fatigue meter back up over the 50% mark.  It makes the crampons useful for climbing ropes since, with them equipped, a player generally has enough stamina to climb straight through to the top of the rope without resting on a ledge.

As it is now, the first reduction in carry weight is at 50%, but there is also a second one at 25%.

Your fainting proposal is too RNG for my liking... a chance of dropping the player at any moment is too much like a cheap jump scare.  In addition, IRL... people don't faint whenever they are over tired unless they have a disorder that causes them to suddenly faint at any time - tired or not.  Dropping weight in order to continue walking is a realistic reaction to becoming truly tired.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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By the way, when I say "minutes", I mean "in-game minutes" not the irl ones. So 5-30 minutes to faint are 25-150 seconds from the player's perspective. Those seconds are not really intended to be useful. They are much more like a warning, so a player doesn't feel too frustrated over their character suddenly passing out.

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2 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

I see your point but I run everywhere! I'd be dead after two days ,on any level🙂

One more reason to add this feature! Stalker would become as hard as it should be 😈

Seriously, though. For a survival game, it's to easy to simply "stop dying" in TLD.

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1 hour ago, Ghurcb said:

Oh, no! It's not RNG, at least, not fully. I mean, you first get a 4-hour warning, the last 5-30 minutes of RNG are, basically, you getting the last chance to find cover.

As to the rope-climbing... The "you are too encumbered to climb" is in essence, the game, not allowing you to make your own decisions to learn from your mistakes. And in my opinion, the whole process of climbing a rope should be built around managing your stamina, not fatigue. Losing half of my overall energy after climbing for a minute just doesn't feel right. Sure, anyone would be TIRED after this, but not SLEEPY. No, this exhaustion is more about running out of breath, about sore arms. Something that can be fixed by rest, but not necessarily sleep.

Oh, also. 25% is not a point of second reduction in carry weight. This reduction is gradual. It starts at 50% and ends at 0%.

Sorry, it's that last "somewhere within the next 30 minutes, you're going to pass out regardless of where you are or what you're doing" that is COMPLETELY RNG - a jump scare equivalent to sudden death... not in favor of that.

As for the differences between being exhausted and being tired... stamina is not a measure of exhaustion either.  On a rope, it is merely a measure of lost grip strength.  When sprinting, it's a measure of "winded-ness" not exhaustion.  The fatigue meter is what measures exhaustion in this game.  Sure "rest" is not necessarily "sleep" IRL, but in this game, "rest" and "sleep" are equivalent.  We have no capacity to sit down and actually rest without sleeping.

Furthermore, you have several hours of warning before fatigue whittles away at your carry weight (regardless of the exact mechanic between 50% and 25%) and you have several ways to plan around it and to reduce it without sleep.  You're proposing a "sudden death" mechanic to which the only solution is sleep.  Not in favor of that.  In that case, it should take at least 36 to 48 in-game hours before such a mechanic even starts to kick in... people in certain professions IRL pull 36-hour shifts all the time without fainting.  And if you google the question as to how long humans can go without sleep, you'll see that experiments done in 1965 determined this to be around 11 days.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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29 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

One more reason to add this feature! Stalker would become as hard as it should be 😈

Seriously, though. For a survival game, it's to easy to simply "stop dying" in TLD.

I play pilgrim for the exploration side more than anything  else.  And I've managed to die on that a couple of times!  

It'd be good for those who want the challenge though so maybe just in the custom settings only

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1 hour ago, Ghurcb said:

One more reason to add this feature! Stalker would become as hard as it should be 😈

Seriously, though. For a survival game, it's to easy to simply "stop dying" in TLD.

Play NOGOA then - disable healing in the Custom menu and you begin an inevitable march towards death as the game whittles away at your health bar over a series of poor choices that don't prevent it from whittling away at your health bar.

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23 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

Not sudden. First, you've got hours before your energy reaches 0. Second, you get a 4-hour warning (20 minutes of playtime), and the "risk" only fills while you're at 0 fatigue (which can be fixed by coffee or energy drink). And only when "faint risk" reaches 100, you get a final warning, telling you that you have more or less a minute (of irl time) to star a fire or find shelter. A player doesn't even have to know the timeframe. Sure, it's random, whether you get 25 seconds or 2.5 minutes after the last warning but it's like randomness of a critical shot or a misfire. (btw, all the chances/timeframes et.c. will probably be different, if Hinterland ever decide to add this mechanic)

AND it's not a certain death. You can (and probably will) survive spending another hour outside, unless it's a blizzard or you're wearing the starting clothes. If your character dies, because of passing out, it's a consequence of a chain of poor decisions made by you. The way it's always been in The Long Dark.

And what happens if you lose your grip completely when climbing a rope? You don't get sleepy. You fall. Imo, when your stamina reaches zero that should be it. You overestimate your chances - you get hurt.

But... But we do. There's literally a "rest" option represented by a nice deck of cards. And you don't have to sleep for an hour to refill your stamina bar. You can just play solitaire for 15 minutes, while sitting on a cliff.

Fatigue meter DOES represent how much sleep you need, because only sleep (and also coffee) can refill it. Energy drinks and stims only temporarily fill it.

It's still annoying. That's my point. Instead of being a challenge it is merely an inconvenience.

And why am I forced to keep my fatigue above 50%? There are no consequences to having <50% temperature or hydration or satiety.

Coffee is a limited resource.

Not sudden. Not death.

Cause people need sleep to survive (coffee, GO!, and stims would work as temporary solution, though).

Do these shifts include travelling kilometers through show and fighting wolves?

 

Yes, and those people were kept awake by other people. Noone can stay awake for 11 days on will power alone.

 

PS: Sorry, if I'm being too defensive about this concept, but all those arguments sound more like misunderstandings or nitpicks.

You currently have hours before your fatigue meter gets below 50%, so your point makes no point.  Your fatique meter depletes constantly until you sleep - it just depletes at a faster rate when you are exerting yourself.  The moment you get off the rope on the ledge, it returns to depleting at your resting rate.  Rest, IRL, does not make you less tired (that is, you don't recoup tiredness by resting).  You recoup stamina (which is as it is now in game).  You do feel temporarily less tired on stims or on caffiene, which is also what is reflected currently in the game.  You do not faint when over tired.  You may close your eyes and briefly sleep (known as a micro-sleep), but that is NOT fainting.  When you are tired/sleepy, you cannot carry as much, run as fast, or make decisions as effectively as when you are well rested.  The first two are reflected in the game.  The last is not... but it would not be reflected by a proposal that can suddenly drop the player in his tracks at any point during a 30 minute period in the game.

I have a vasovagel disorder... I can faint whenever my blood pressure suddenly plummets.  It's not the same as a micro-sleep from being over tired.  When micro-sleeping, I am vaguely aware of what is going on around me and am capable of opening my eyes again should something occur that requires attention.  I can also micro-sleep sitting up.  When I faint, I lose total awareness of my surroundings and I generally collapse immediately to the floor (sometimes injuring myself in the process) 

The game more accurately reflects reality than your proposal.  Suddenly dropping the player anytime within a 30 minutes period is RNG... no matter how many hours they have warning them of that 30-minute period approaching... and I'm simply not in favor of those sort of cheap "jump-scare" tactics.  Furthermore, it would not increase the difficulty of stalker (because stalker players start with a bedroll).  It would make it easier since it would enable them to move more freely while over encumbered and they have more "stuff" to carry (e.g. the rifle).   It would be an annoyance to interloper players who must first find a bedroll in order to be able to sleep.

 

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11 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

What's NOGOA?

A custom game developed by some notable streamers.  It stands for No One Gets Out Alive.  The code is available from streamers like TheWonzandOnly or Perfect Trip.  It basically pushes settings to their most difficult levels, including eliminating healing (i.e. the only way to regain lost health is to use a stim, depending on whether birch bark tea is disabled).

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1 hour ago, Ghurcb said:

So... Interloper, but harder? The thing is, interloper shouldn't be seen as "HARD" difficulty setting (in fact, it's a perfect example of how NOT TO make hard difficulty). But the devs warn you, it's not a good experience. Interloper is not engaging, it's arduous. Interloper is not hard, it's frustrating by design. Some people like it. I'm not those people. And if NOGOA is a harder version of loper, it too doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me.

 

If you excuse me, I'll reply to this one later. It's 1:30 right now where I live. In short, I'm sorry, if I misrepresented this medical condition. Still, I disagree with some of your other arguments. But it can wait until tomorrow (later this day for me).

NOGOA code as it is used by those specific streamers is Interloper (Baseline Resources Low), but since it is a custom game, you can add in Rifles and Revolvers and/or increase the Baseline Resources to make it play more like a more difficult stalker game with no healing... and hence, no way to avoid an ultimate death as your health bar depletes to 0.  That's the joy of a custom game... you can tweak it to do whatever you like without enforcing "surprise" mechanics on others.

No need to reply further - I am simply not in favor of a RNG mechanic that proposes to drop the player regardless of what they are doing at any time within a 30-minute interval in-game.  If I were sleepy and encountered wolves, I would certainly stay awake at that moment regardless of how exhausted I might have been prior to seeing them.  What you're proposing is that the game could arbitrarily drop me in that moment just because I didn't find a place to sleep prior to my fatigue meter going into the red.  I am simply not in favor of that and there is nothing you can say that will cause me to change my mind about that. 

Whether you feel the carry-weight mechanic is realistic or not, it is a better mechanic because it forces the player to make choices as the affliction is occurring.  The choice is based on how the player assesses their circumstance when the loss of carry-weight starts to occur.  How important is it to them to carry everything they are carrying.  Can they drop some weight is the first choice.  If a rope climb is more important, the player can decide to not start climbing that rope until they have slept or to drop items or to drink a coffeeor to pop a stim.  That it takes longer to climb when tired is also a predictable event, so they can also assess whether or not it is possible for them to climb the rope in one go without losing grip strength/stamina.  IF they misjudge the climb and do start to fall, they can also likely bail out on the ledge to prevent falling to their death or even start to descend the rope instead... since the game gives you a warning by causing you to start slipping on the rope first.

A player who suddenly faints while, say, on a bridge in Ash Canyon while trying to get back to Miner's Folly to sleep is, most likely, just dead.

 

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3 hours ago, Leeanda said:

I see your point but I run everywhere! I'd be dead after two days ,on any level🙂

 

2 hours ago, Leeanda said:

I play pilgrim for the exploration side more than anything  else.  And I've managed to die on that a couple of times!  

It'd be good for those who want the challenge though so maybe just in the custom settings only

Don't play voyager it has you at the most sleep deprivation -carry ratio I don't think anyone that sprints everywhere is going to survivor sprinted to paradise meadows past the wolf gotten the key in the truck 🚚 and went on made a fire took out 45 torches searched  the place sprinted back to the gray mothers house and by then I was dying of fatigue by the way I suggest fainting is only on stalker and interloper like  intestinal parasites

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5 minutes ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

 

Don't play voyager it has you at the most sleep deprivation -carry ratio I don't think anyone that sprints everywhere is going to survivor sprinted to paradise meadows past the wolf gotten the key in the truck 🚚 and went on made a fire took out 45 torches searched  the place sprinted back to the gray mothers house and by then I was dying of fatigue by the way I suggest fainting is only on stalker and interloper like  intestinal parasites

I have to admit I'm usually overweight by quite a few pounds too! And  I sleep twice a day on my runs! Lol! 

So maybe just for the  players who like a real challenge!  🙂

If you carry that many torches you will get tired quickly!   

Got to be honest though ,it's annoying when they say that! Wish they would faint occasionally!😁

 

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6 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

I have to admit I'm usually overweight by quite a few pounds too! And  I sleep twice a day on my runs! Lol! 

So maybe just for the  players who like a real challenge!  🙂

If you carry that many torches you will get tired quickly!   

Got to be honest though ,it's annoying when they say that! Wish they would faint occasionally!😁

 

I didn't carry them I left them there and try not to sleep in the day of you have to travel at night it's not good night predators  aren't only more vicious there less scared and let's hope it's not an aurora then the predators go ballistic well br  has told us "they hate the light" that might be the flashlight or maybe the aurora but either way I've shot a bear with a distress pistol during the aurora only drawer it to me and I got mauled  I wonder if moose are affected by the aurora

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16 minutes ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

I didn't carry them I left them there and try not to sleep in the day of you have to travel at night it's not good night predators  aren't only more vicious there less scared and let's hope it's not an aurora then the predators go ballistic well br  has told us "they hate the light" that might be the flashlight or maybe the aurora but either way I've shot a bear with a distress pistol during the aurora only drawer it to me and I got mauled  I wonder if moose are affected by the aurora

I think the moose is the exception. It usually disappears during aurora's. Last one I saw disappeared with some of my arrows in him!  Not sure why they do go though but that's moose for you! Unpredictable ! 

Don't think wolves are scared of anything during the aurora either.  But they shouldn't attack if you're under the streetlights . 

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41 minutes ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

 

Don't play voyager it has you at the most sleep deprivation -carry ratio I don't think anyone that sprints everywhere is going to survivor sprinted to paradise meadows past the wolf gotten the key in the truck 🚚 and went on made a fire took out 45 torches searched  the place sprinted back to the gray mothers house and by then I was dying of fatigue by the way I suggest fainting is only on stalker and interloper like  intestinal parasites

Sprinting depletes the fatigue meter at at significantly higher rate than merely walking.  In general, the greater the exertion the faster the fatigue meter depletes.  If you're sprinting everywhere, your fatigue meter can fully deplete in as little as 2.6 in-game hours.  If just passing time, the fatigue meter can last as long as 22 in-game hours.  Walking while over encumbered is more of an exertion than walking when not encumbered, so walking when over your carry weight depletes the fatigue meter faster than if you keep your load under your carry weight.

The base rate of depletion, however, is also controlled by a setting.  In Pilgrim, Voyageur and Stalker the Fatigue Rate is set to "High" (i.e. there is no difference).  In Interloper, it is set to Medium (meaning Interloper players fatigue less quickly overall than in any other standard difficulty).

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Man Ghurcb, you really took much critique. I like the idea. In reality, it's really like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl-NhIdZttw
This is a video (german one, same experiment might exist in english, idk) where this guy kept not sleeping for 100h. He described the whole process. He really stretched it, like took caffeine and other than in a survival scenario he wouldn't do much (like walking miles, crafting things, being in the cold, etc.). After 60h, he says, hallucinations would get really bad. And after 100h he would just fall asleep, because of not sleeping for a long time. And this is really a big time. He prepared for being awake long. Normally you wouldn't stay awake that long.

So, if you're not sleeping for like 2 days while working or walking, you would be so damn tired, that you might just fall asleep.
I would add one thing to the sleep mechanic alongside the faint affliction: There is that Hunger Revamped mod, that tracks behind the visible hunger meter how much fat you stored. When you don't fill the hunger meter by eating for a while and it's low, you lose body fat and if you have only few calories stored, you take more damage while starving than you would with many stored calories. So you can't just starve for a month and only eat about nothing, then eat to refill your hunger bar and be ok again. You need to eat much for a longer period of time, to fill up you stored calories.
I would do it similar for sleep. If you sleep only a bit over say 2 weeks, you are overall pretty tired and weak. If you don't sleep for 3 days at all, you need to sleep very much for a 2 days or something, to reach the same performance again. Like with hypothermia, where you need to stay in a warm area for 2 days, you would need to sleep really much to cure faint.

I don't like the handling, that you are fine with letting all your stats drop to 0% for some time. That's why I use hunger revamped.
I don't see a problem with encumbrance starting at 50% downwards fatique. I mean, there's theoretically also a difference between being well rested and having worked for half a day. It's all not binary, it's stedy (not like a bigger difference between 0% and 1% than between 50% and 49%)

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10 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

Aaaaaaaand I back!

Yes, but I also have hours before my hunger meter gets below 50%. No other need inconveniences me after becoming only half-depleted.

 

But Survivor does, as indicated by "If I don't rest soon, I'm gonna faint". Except, they don't, as indicated by the next 96 hours of not fainting.

This is called ludonarrative dissonance. Unless intentional, it should be avoided.

The reality of keeping yourself awake by nothing but willpower for 4 days only to drop dead, once your time is up?

Maybe it's my fault for not using the best wording... By "30 minutes" I meant "1/48 of the long dark day/night cycle". In terms of your gameplay it's 0.5-2.5 minutes. And yes, this brief period of time IS "random number generator". So what? Not all randomness is bad. In this case it accomplishes the task of creating tension. Getting enough time to reach a shelter would be akin to getting a critical shot on a moose. Not getting enough time would be more like having your rifle jam at 15% condition as this moose is charging at you (your fault for not cleaning it -> your fault for not sleeping).

How much time does "frostbite risk" take to develop into "frostbite"? OMFG!!!!!!11!!! A JUMPSCARE MECHANIC!

No other affliction is generous enough to give you the "one last warning". I just thought that without this "coyote time", players would be way too frustrated to pass out in the middle of whatever they're doing.

Seriously, though. Isn't frostbite a jumpscare mechanic, if that's how you define a jumpscare? Cause you are warned beforehand (checked), you can prevent it by addressing the cause of the issue (checked), and if you ignore it for long enough you are put into a disadvantageous position (checked).

In a comment above I proposed to add the ability to sleep on the ground without a bedroll. It's called "balancing".

Do you really think, players really ever do anything to fight over encumbrance? No, usually they just keep on going. Slowly. But surely. Annoyed at their low speed.

Well, I already stated my view on interloper. It's intentionally frustrating. Making it more frustrating wouldn't go against this idea.

30 tld minutes = 2.5 minutes. Wish, I could edit the original post...

Frostbite also happens regardless of what you're doing. Still, it would serve you to "be doing" whatever can prevent it. The same applies here.

See this picture?Faint_chance_icon.png.b4d72b5e0ade57e681a492ad0fb579f6.png

As all the other "yellow" afflictions it's just a warning.

See this one? Faint_icon1.png.3af44daec503135e4f8ca67e2721bd4a.png

As all the other "red" afflictions, it's not "just a warning" anymore.

Yes, and then not finding it in the following 4 hours.

Simply assuming that you're right isn't good for a discussion. It's a sign of close-mindedness. Sorry, I don't want to offend you, it's just... Why? Why is there nothing that can change your mind?

If only this mechanic was as good as you're describing it. Unfortunately, it doesn't force anything. Negative reinforcement is a great tool for game-design (touch spikes = death), negative reinforcement through boredom isn't (touch spikes = wait 30 minutes to respawn). Slowing player down, because one of their meters is half-depleted, is not a good negative reinforcement.

This is what those last 25-150 seconds are for. They are your last chance to leave this bridge.

 

And to address RNG side of it one last time. Would this mechanic be better if it was not 25-150 seconds, but, let's say, just 30?

Cause the way I suggest it, you can get lucky. But if the time doesn't vary, it's just a "death timer" (except, it's not death, necessarily).

Again - my basic dislike is that it is RNG at the end.  The game's RNG decides whether you survive for 5 minutes or 30 minutes.  Regardless of "warning" for 4 hours before then, the last 30 minutes is STILL RNG.   I have a right to dislike that part of your proposal... accept it.  There are ways you can eliminate that cheap trick... One is simply by increasing the rate at which a red fatigue bar depletes the character's health.  It's currently 1% per in-game hour. 

You make false claims - by saying it would increase the difficulty of stalker.  Not true.  It just makes the function of fatigue more based on RNG than it is currently; and I have explained why I think that.  There are "better" ways in custom to increase the difficulty of a stalker-like run.  Again, increasing the rate at which a red fatigue bar depletes the character's health would accomplish that.  If the player is playing a NOGOA-sty;e run (where health recovery is disabled), the unnecessary loss of health due to fatique is a strong incentive to stay well rested.

Also, I'm entitled to like the current way in which fatigue reduces carry capacity... and I have explained why I like it.  It forces the player to make decisions about what they wish to continue carrying or whether they want to forego climbing a rope or being able sprint in order to carry more at that time.  I would not be adverse to the addition of a custom toggle that could turn off this feature - meaning that fatique would not lessen carry weight if that toggle were activated by the player.  I, personally, would never activate such a toggle since I like the feature as it is.  There is no need to introduce RNG "fainting" to accomplish elimination of the carry weight issue you don't like.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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I didn't read all the replies, but I want to say that fainting could work if done well. That's a problem though in TLD. If you climb a couple ropes you would go from being completely rested to I am going to faint from lack of sleep in 20 seconds. This is so far off of what makes sense that I would strongly dislike it.

If they were to decouple being physically tired and being tired from lack of sleep then yes it could work. I have some thoughts on how it could work but writing them out seems pointless as it's never going to happen.

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52 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

This discussion isn't moving anywhere. Let's just stop it, okay?

To address your main point one last time...

RNG. Yes, the time you get before passing out is not set in stone the way I propose it. Still, it is not bad on itself. There are many chance-based mechanics in the long dark. The list includes: starting a fire, mending clothes, fixing instruments, sprains, poisoning, intestinal parasites, snaring rabbits, critical shots, misfires, weapons getting jammed, fishing, different spawnpoints, weather changes, animal spawning, and last but not least, loot generation. Simply stating that a feature has "RNG" in it is not a criticism. The long dark is a survival game, not tic-tac-toe. It doesn't have to be completely predictable. I'll even go further, parts of it HAVE to be random. This randomness forces on-the-spot thinking, pushes you to reconsider your strategies, and makes each new experience unique.

That was it. I will not reply to any further comments of yours. You don't have to reply to this one, either (obviously).

A better way is to put the depletion of health due to fatigue on an accelerated rate - 1st hour - 1% per hour (can still be negated and health regen'd with a birch bark tea); 2nd consecutive hour = 5% per hour (birch bark teas now just negate the decline); 3rd consecutive hour = 10% per hour (decline is no longer able to be countered with birch bark teas).  At least then the moment of being overtired causing one's death is not due to some arbitrary RNG action by the game as in your proposal, while preventing people from running for long periods of time without sleep.

It would also resolve the issue of as described by another poster above of other actions that rapidly deplete the fatigue meter (like climbing a rope or even taking a stim) and are not because the player is going long periods without sleep... whereas, your RNG could drop them in the next 5 in-game minutes or anywhere within the next 30 in-game minutes.

I'm sorry you find my points too threatening to your precious proposal.  It is a public forum and I can say my piece.

Edited by UpUpAway95
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7 hours ago, Leeanda said:

Please guys, can't you just agree to disagree  and leave it at that!  It is just a game and it's not worth getting upset about! There are far worse things in the world.

Fine.  Remember how much people loved the RNG sprain mechanic when it first came in... just please give me a custom option to turn it off.

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2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Fine.  Remember how much people loved the RNG sprain mechanic when it first came in... just please give me a custom option to turn it off.

I'm just glad I can remember my own name half the time, but the option to take it off is a good idea, presuming  HTL ever implement it in the first place!

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