. . . a game cheat creator being criminally tried . . . .

[peteloud]

This is not specifically related to TLD, but to all game mods/cheats etc.

https://www.rt.com/pop-culture/544532-russia-wot-cheater-arrested/

 

 

 

[Guest jeffpeng]

It is a very different thing if you cheat in an online game, a competitive one at that, or if you cheat a game you play alone. I think this should be kinda self-evident.

[Digitalzombie]

13 hours ago, peteloud said:

This is not specifically related to TLD, but to all game mods/cheats etc.

No. No, it's not.
It isn't related to *all* mods/cheats and it isn't related to TLD at all.

Not every mod is a cheat. Not every cheat is a mod. People need to learn this. In addition you need to differentiate between singleplayer and multiplayer.
The former is nobody's business. The latter is despicable, but not necessarily a criminal act. Is it competitive? Is money involved? Does it even give you an advantage or is it just some cosmetics?

Even with multiplayer, there are exceptions. Take a look at VRChat. They could close shop right now if they'd kick out mod support. Or how about Minecraft?

It's quite a broad topic with a lot of grey areas. But the article is pretty much on the opposite side of the (modding) spectrum compared to TLD.

[ChillPlayer]

11 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

It is a very different thing if you cheat in an online game, a competitive one at that, or if you cheat a game you play alone. I think this should be kinda self-evident.

And in this particular case the creators of the games are losing money when people cheat. The business model of the World of * franchise is  - like in most free to play games - that you could technically grind for free most of the things the game has to offer but it takes a huge amount of time. This can drastically be reduced if you buy loot boxes and other upgrades - or by cheating. And cheaters do not only take money away from the creators, they also steel money in a way from people who payed for loot boxes because they are still loosing to cheaters, thus not progressing further. So yes, cheaters and cheat creators should be put in prison at the very least.

[APixelatedLemon]

Well crap, the feds will be after me for installing the "Thomas the Tank Engine replacing all dragons" Skyrim mod.

[Guest jeffpeng]

5 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

And in this particular case the creators of the games are losing money when people cheat. The business model of the World of * franchise is  - like in most free to play games - that you could technically grind for free most of the things the game has to offer but it takes a huge amount of time. This can drastically be reduced if you buy loot boxes and other upgrades - or by cheating. And cheaters do not only take money away from the creators, they also steel money in a way from people who payed for loot boxes because they are still loosing to cheaters, thus not progressing further. So yes, cheaters and cheat creators should be put in prison at the very least.

I wasn't making an argument against this. I was merely pointing out that

5 hours ago, Digitalzombie said:

it isn't related to TLD at all.

Also:

1 hour ago, APixelatedLemon said:

Well crap, the feds will be after me for installing the "Thomas the Tank Engine replacing all dragons" Skyrim mod.

We should bunk, mate.

[Guest jeffpeng]

5 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

cheaters and cheat creators should be put in prison at the very least.

This however.... wait what?

[ChillPlayer]

49 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

This however.... wait what?

yeah I was thinking something along the lines of burning them and flush the ashes down a toilet but even I can see that this would be a too harsh, barely

Edited December 28, 2021 by ChillPlayer

[Guest jeffpeng]

56 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

yeah I was thinking something along the lines of burning them and flush the ashes down a toilet but even I can see that this would be a too harsh, barely

Barely. Just ... barely. 😄

 

Edit: You just can't argue against the fact that this makes this game objectively better.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by jeffpeng

[ChillPlayer]

1 hour ago, jeffpeng said:

Barely. Just ... barely. 😄

I was talking about cheaters in online games  - I don't have any issues with anyone using mods as long as they don't manipulate my experience.

[Jaspo]

As a long time World of Tanks player (or is it abused addict? Some days I'm not sure) I find this very interesting, particularly

"The aim hacks allowed players to automatically lock on to targets and maintain 100% accuracy and always hit critical parts of the enemy"

since Wargaming has in the past consistently claimed that a)illegal mods are extremely rare, and possibly that the specific pack of cheats alluded to in this lawsuit (I'll not name it here) may not actually exist and b) such aimbots are impossible due to the shot dispersion RNG being calculated server-side, making a guaranteed critical hit impossible (for indeed, the "fully aimed" aim in WoT is by far the worst I've seen in any game).

The other bit of pertinent information this article excludes is that Wargaming has always welcomed modding in their highly competitive, statted, multiplayer-only game for reasons unknown to any reasonable person. And then they have some strange arbitrary decision making in place for determining what a cheat mod vs a legal mod is. So yes, aimbots and wallhacks and laser sights and tree-down mods and minimap aim and reload indicators and the like are generally officially banned, but as I see it many of the mods that are supposedly legal don't pass the "helps me" fairness test; basically if you can describe what the mod does as "it helps me _____" I would consider that an illegal mod in a multiplayer context - but Wargaming does not.

So in summary, Wargaming might get a lot of money from this case, but they are themselves part of the problem.

So as for me, have I noticed any cheating in 38,000+ battles? It's very hard to tell. Particularly because latency and hacks can produce similar apparent results. But there's so many ways in which Wargaming intentionally unbalances their game, and the playing field is as such so extremely uneven in virtually every battle (we're talking premium ammunition, +/-25% RNG for damage and penetration, an unreliable penetration chance indicator, tank crews of different skill levels, generally overpowered premium vehicles as well as general unbalance among tech tree vehicles, and a 3 tier spread for most battles, among other things), that a cheat advantage becomes very indistinguishable from a legal advantage.

Perhaps I've seen the strangest things happen in clan battles and in tournaments with premium currency as the prize, perhaps. But strange and unexpected results are a common occurance in WoT.

[ChillPlayer]

2 hours ago, Jaspo said:

But there's so many ways in which Wargaming intentionally unbalances their game, and the playing field is as such so extremely uneven in virtually every battle

It's also worth pointing out, that this is only noticed by someone with 38k+ battles Well maybe less is needed but I've also spend a few hundred hours in World of Warships and at first I was intrigued, even hooked one can say but then I started to notice that I could as well roll a dice to determine the outcome. Even if you become good at the game they manage to someone induce the feeling that you need to buy more to be better the next time, so ultimatelly I stopped playing it.