indoors <> outdoors clarification

[Strelok]

I am aware of the following:

All shelters which need loading into it are considered indoors.

These are houses, cabins, bunkers (prepper caches) and some caves (most are region transition caves).

Then there are shelters of all kind which are accessible whithout loading into it (e.g. Mountaineer's Hut in TWM, most caves).

Those are not considered indoors therefore are outdoors.

All containers outdoors, like cars and rock caches, are also outdoors.

Most food decays faster indoors than outdoors (meat, fish, MRE, Energy Bars etc).

There are some items which decay faster outdoors than indoors.

Those are all clothing gear items and some specific food items (sodas, sardines etc).

 

Now there are questions left which i want to clarify.

1. In the LongDark.Fandom wiki it says that clothing items decay faster outdoors than indoors. Well, so far so good. Clothing becomes more weahtered so to speak if worn outdoors including extra condition loss from blizzards. But additionally it says that the decay rate is the slowest if "stored". That means to me that i have to put my reserve clothing items into indoor containers to have the lowest decay. Is this correct?

2. Am i right to believe that the indoors outdoors question is also true of the actual location of the character? So if i am outdoors then e.g. tins of sardines in the inventory will decay faster? (This is very obvious but i just want to clarify, because it could be important about food priority strategy)

3. Drying pelts or clothing doesnt care about indoors outdoors afaik. It only matters if there is a location which can dry or not. E.g. caves and the small veranda/porch of the PV Farmstead is not indoors per se, but can dry. Is this correct?

 

[Guest jeffpeng]

15 minutes ago, Strelok said:

1. In the LongDark.Fandom wiki it says that clothing items decay faster outdoors than indoors. Well, so far so good. Clothing becomes more weahtered so to speak if worn outdoors including extra condition loss from blizzards. But additionally it says that the decay rate is the slowest if "stored". That means to me that i have to put my reserve clothing items into indoor containers to have the lowest decay. Is this correct?

I might be wrong on that, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't matter if it the container is inside or outside. (At least when it comes to clothing)

15 minutes ago, Strelok said:

2. Am i right to believe that the indoors outdoors question is also true of the actual location of the character? So if i am outdoors then e.g. tins of sardines in the inventory will decay faster? (This is very obvious but i just want to clarify, because it could be important about food priority strategy)

Yes.

15 minutes ago, Strelok said:

3. Drying pelts or clothing doesnt care about indoors outdoors afaik. It only matters if there is a location which can dry or not. E.g. caves and the small veranda/porch of the PV Farmstead is not indoors per se, but can dry. Is this correct?

Also right.

Edited December 25, 2021 by jeffpeng

[Strelok]

9 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

I might be wrong on that, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't matter if it the container is inside or outside. (At least when it comes to clothing)

 

This would be really nice to know to be certain about it. If i remember correctly, i stored once clothing inside a rock cache and they became wet and finally frozen. That gave me the assumption that its not good to have clothing outdoors even if stored in a container. One thing which could contradict this is the fact that if i find clothing in car trunks, they are perfectly dry. Eventually i dont remember correctly.

Thanks for the quick response.

[SpanishMoss]

Correction, some locations that are outdoors still count as "indoors". These include the back half of caves, fishing huts, and the mountneeiers hut. Similar locations can be identified by character walking speed. If your character walks slower than normal, that area  counts as indoor. Clothing decays slower in container, regardless if they are indoors or not. Decay rate of items in the inventory does not change when indoors or outdoors, unless it is worn clothing. Locations like the PV porch DOES count as indoors despise not having a loading screen, and is treated the same as actual indoors.

[Dr. S.]

@Strelok I don’t think indoors/outdoors is as binary as you make it out to be. Or at least I don’t think of it that way. Locations can be indoors or outdoors for different purposes, independently, it seems to me. 
 

For example, lookout towers don’t have a loading screen but they seem to be indoors for almost everything. But they do act as outdoors for some purposes — reading and mending, for example. 

[Strelok]

3 minutes ago, SpanishMoss said:

Correction, some locations that are outdoors still count as "indoors". These include the back half of caves, fishing huts, and the mountneeiers hut. Similar locations can be identified by character walking speed. If your character walks slower than normal, that area  counts as indoor. Clothing decays slower in container, regardless if they are indoors or not. Decay rate of items in the inventory does not change when indoors or outdoors, unless it is worn clothing. Locations like the PV porch DOES count as indoors despise not having a loading screen, and is treated the same as actual indoors.

What the hell. So the main correction for me would be to not think about whether or not there is a loading involved. So that means i just can use all backlocations of caves as real indoor. To be more precise where my problem comes from. I always think about which food to take with me and where to go and where i can store it with the lowest decay rate. For example Tin of Sardines i always considered house food. And not cave food.

And now i can always use all food, no matter what. I just have to put my canned food at the backside in caves and dont have to be afraid to have higher decay in the Mountaineers hut for xample. That is so much better now.

Thank you very much.

[Strelok]

7 minutes ago, Dr. S. said:

@Strelok I don’t think indoors/outdoors is as binary as you make it out to be. Or at least I don’t think of it that way. Locations can be indoors or outdoors for different purposes, independently, it seems to me. 
 

For example, lookout towers don’t have a loading screen but they seem to be indoors for almost everything. But they do act as outdoors for some purposes — reading and mending, for example. 

Thank you too for clarification. I feel like an idiot. I was constantly avoiding to take the wrong food to some locations.

[Strelok]

1 hour ago, SpanishMoss said:

Decay rate of items in the inventory does not change when indoors or outdoors, unless it is worn clothing.

That actualy i dont get. So which decay rate is then counting? Because those items in question have 2 different decay rates.

[Guest jeffpeng]

This was basically about item decay rates. And the hut on TWM does not count as indoors when it comes to the decay characteristics of items. This is also true for all other building that are implemented similarly, including caves. They are treated as outdoor locations for this purpose. Tin cans such as peaches basically rot away in the hut, while meat stored inside keeps basically forever.

Edited December 26, 2021 by jeffpeng

[ChillPlayer]

17 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

 And the hut on TWM does not count as indoors when it comes to the decay characteristics of items.

But to complicate things, when it comes to Cabin Fever the hut does count as indoors which I always found kinda strange. Open Caves are not indoors but cure hides, transition caves are indoors albeit you can start a fire in there and to absolutely confuse anyone, HTL decided that the back portion of the shack with the workbench in Miner's Folly also counts as indoors for both, curing/storage and CF, I've got CF risk there once while sitting beside the corpse. The indoor/outdoor mechanic is the least consistent concept in the game.

When it comes to meat storage, I either put it on the ground when there's no suitable container (open caves), in drawers in fishing huts or coal bins, which tend to be around most of my longterm bases. I never store cloths though because what's the point? I either wear them or tear them apart to repair the cloths I'm wearing. The one exception was in Stalker when I wanted to make a full circle of AC in 24h in search of the polaroid, to move faster I left the bear coat at home. But usually I don't care about movement speed and just plan my route accordingly.

[MrWolf]

I've tested clothing decay several times and found no difference when clothing is kept in my inventory (not worn), dropped on a floor inside, or left in a container indoors.  All decay at the same rate.  I've tested by repairing three of the same item to 100%, then keeping all three in those locations and periodically checking their condition until they become ruined, or close to it - they're always the same condition.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, some locations have different properties for different items.  The Pleasant Valley farmhouse porch and Timberwolf Mountain Mountaineer's Hut act as indoors for cabin fever and curing (though I'm not certain on curing in the PV porch).  But meat decay counts as outside, whether meat is left on the floor on in a container in those locations.  Both locations contribute to cabin fever as well.  Outdoor caves that are warmer in the back can cure items in the back but count as outside for foot decay.  The same type of food left outside in the snow, in the front of the cave, and in the back of the cave all decay at the same rate.  Sleeping or resting in the warmer back of those caves counts as time indoors in the stats but does not contribute to cabin fever.

[Guest jeffpeng]

I guess one important thing to understand is that item decay, except for worn clothing, happens accordingly to the scene (a region, a house, anything you "load into"), no matter how or where that item is stored. As far as I know all regions you load into are outside, all caves and houses you load into are inside. (Not sure how Blackrock Prison is treated, but I'd wager outdoor.) So an item on Timberwolf Mountain will decay the same whether you carry (not wear) it, it is stored in the big storage in the hut, it lies on the floor in the hut, lies on the lake, is stored in one of the containers, is stuffed into a rock cache or neatly placed in a container at the back of the forest cave. It does not matter. All that matters is that the scene the TWM maps plays in is flagged as outdoors.

Other than that there are of course a multitude of different flags any given area can have. Some defined areas, such as caves, the hut, but also the outlooks, etc, have a temperature bonus that is calculated without taking world decay into account. Some areas, such as the TWM three way cave, have a temperature bonus that is calculated with world decay taken into account, hence while they are warmer than the surrounding area, they do get colder over time. Some areas can cure, some cannot. Some areas inflict cabin fever - some do not. This is badly communicated in the game, as there is no underlying principle to these properties. You can only be sure that "indoor" locations such as houses or caves you load into are all considered indoor when it comes to item decay, do all inflict cabin fever, do all allow curing, and are all calculated with a fixed temperature without world decay, and that every time you have no roof over your head (except holes in the ceilings of caves) you are outdoors for all intends and purposes. With locations that somewhat blend in between ... figure it out.

[Strelok]

Seems that this topic was indeed important to start. Because if you want to always have the lowest decay rate possible for food or clothing, it has to be clarified.

Thank you all for contributing to this clarification.

To bring up an example which led me to start this topic:

I am now in a custom game and went from CH -> PV -> TWM -> AC -> TWM -> PV -> ML -> MT

Now i am at MT and want to have a loot expedition for the large amounts of plants in HRV and i want not to bring items, food in this case,  that i cannot prevent to decay at a faster rate. Those food items are sodas, pork and beans, tin of sardines and pinnacle peaches. Those are food that need indoor storage, container or not, to be preserved the longest.

Now one can argue that this all doesnt matter any more at all if you have level 5 cooking. But i rather want to consume all food first which is going to be ruined first, even if it doesnt matter, because i want to nullify the chance to have ruined food accidentely stored in a container and then is lost.

In other words, i try to play and consume food as if i am not at level 5 cooking.

[Strelok]

8 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

I never store cloths though because what's the point? I either wear them or tear them apart to repair the cloths I'm wearing.

There is a point to make. Lets say you have multiple snow pants or isolated boots or some other top notch clothing.

If you now dont tear them down but store them in long term bases, you have the option to repair always the one item with lowest % condition first.

Lets say you have 3 pairs of isolated boots. One pair at 90% (on your feet) and then one pair in storage at 80% and another one at 70%.

In your case you only have the option to repair the one you wear with 90%, IF you want to repair.

In my case i would put those 90%ers in storage and repair those at 70% and wear them.

If you think of long terms then its the much more cloth saving option.

I have stalker loot in my custom setting and i have already 6! isolated boots and 5! snowpants after fully looting CH, PV, TWM, AC, ML and MT by now. In contrast i found only 2 expedition parkas.

[Strelok]

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

though I'm not certain on curing in the PV porch

It does. But other than that i count the porch as outdoors. I hope this is right.

[ChillPlayer]

21 minutes ago, Strelok said:

There is a point to make. Lets say you have multiple snow pants or isolated boots or some other top notch clothing.

I only wear crafted cloths, if there is an option for that: rabbit hat and mittens, 2x deer pants and deer boots, wolf and bear coat. There are no top tier clothing in Interloper anyways and on Stalker and below it doesn't really matter, there's loot everywhere.

[Strelok]

2 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

I only wear crafted cloths, if there is an option for that: rabbit hat and mittens, 2x deer pants and deer boots, wolf and bear coat. There are no top tier clothing in Interloper anyways and on Stalker and below it doesn't really matter, there's loot everywhere.

Well even in interloper you have some non crafted clothing. And even there you can save cloth by not tearing down all non-crafted clothing and use this strategy to save cloth. It doesnt matter if there is no expedition parka or not. The best things you find are suspect to this idea of saving cloth. And even if you dont want to save cloth, it is a good idea to have some spare clothing, crafted or not, to have some new dry stuff to wear after you come home but dont want to wait to dry those half frozen ones you wear.

[Strelok]

9 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

wolf and bear coat

How exaclty? Bear outside wolf inside? Sometimes both bear, sometimes both wolf?

Like to know how you decide.

[Strelok]

16 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

I only wear crafted cloths, if there is an option for that: rabbit hat and mittens, 2x deer pants and deer boots, wolf and bear coat. There are no top tier clothing in Interloper anyways and on Stalker and below it doesn't really matter, there's loot everywhere.

I could argue that even with only crafted cloths, the idea of having backup stuff dont gonna hurt. Repairwise and for saving time because of wet or frozen coats etc.

But of course if you have dozens of pelts laying around you are right that it doesnt matter that much.

[SpanishMoss]

Here is the wiki page about decay, it might help answer some questions:

 

https://thelongdark.fandom.com/wiki/Decay 

[ChillPlayer]

59 minutes ago, Strelok said:

How exaclty? Bear outside wolf inside? Sometimes both bear, sometimes both wolf?

Like to know how you decide.

I have the bear outside and wolf inside, for the looks and also because I hope that this way the wolf coat won't scare off wolves that easily. But I am not sure if this makes a difference.

[Guest jeffpeng]

56 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

But I am not sure if this makes a difference.

I'm pretty certain it does not.

[Kranium]

On 12/26/2021 at 4:23 AM, jeffpeng said:

Some areas can cure, some cannot. Some areas inflict cabin fever - some do not. This is badly communicated in the game, as there is no underlying principle to these properties.

It is kind of annoying. However, I read some time ago that if you can build a fire there, it's a cabin fever-free zone. So, the back of caves fit, as does the outer part of the Maintenance Shed in BR (my fave long-term base, no cabin fever, I have a fire under the window closest to the bed, and I can snipe wolves from the windows easily, too, especially since predators cannot enter).

[Guest jeffpeng]

15 hours ago, Kranium said:

I read some time ago that if you can build a fire there, it's a cabin fever-free zone.

This probably is true. At least I know no "no-loading-screen" location that violates this rule as long as you take into account that not being able to place a fire on wooden surfaces is a different reason altogether.

15 hours ago, Kranium said:

the Maintenance Shed in BR (my fave long-term base, no cabin fever, I have a fire under the window closest to the bed, and I can snipe wolves from the windows easily, too, especially since predators cannot enter)

I did that a while ago. But I found that unless you are willing to hibernate you'll have a heck of a time getting enough firewood and food long term.

I know I keep repeating this, and I am fully aware that at this point I am probably annoying the living snot out of people, but this entire discussion serves as a perfect example why Cabin Fever is a bloody mess and why it simply shouldn't be in the game. It is

- badly communicated
- requires unintuitive gameplay to avoid
- serves no (longer a) tangible purpose

If the goal is to keep people from playing an uninteractive game that rewards the player for inaction fix the starvation mechanic. If you set yourself the rule to keep yourself fed at all times you will not find yourself passing away days at a time simply because you do usually not have the food reserves to do that. If you do have the food reserves to do that and find nothing better to do you should be at leisure to take a vacation in your funny little hut since you put in the work to afford it. I think if the current state of the globe (yes, it is a globe) has taught us anything, then it's that staying a week or two indoors is perfectly possible without losing your marbles, especially if you have something to do (books, anyone?)

Edited January 20, 2022 by jeffpeng

[Leeanda]

1 hour ago, jeffpeng said:

This probably is true. At least I know no "no-loading-screen" location that violates this rule as long as you take into account that not being able to place a fire on wooden surfaces is a different reason altogether.

I did that a while ago. But I found that unless you are willing to hibernate you'll have a heck of a time getting enough firewood and food long term.

I know I keep repeating this, and I am fully aware that at this point I am probably annoying the living snot out of people, but this entire discussion serves as a perfect example why Cabin Fever is a bloody mess and why it simply shouldn't be in the game. It is

- badly communicated
- requires unintuitive gameplay to avoid
- serves no (longer a) tangible purpose

If the goal is to keep people from playing an uninteractive game that rewards the player for inaction fix the starvation mechanic. If you set yourself the rule to keep yourself fed at all times you will not find yourself passing away days at a time simply because you do usually not have the food reserves to do that. If you do have the food reserves to do that and find nothing better to do you should be at leisure to take a vacation in your funny little hut since you put in the work to afford it. I think if the current state of the globe (yes, it is a globe) has taught us anything, then it's that staying a week or two indoors is perfectly possible without losing your marbles, especially if you have something to do (books, anyone?)

Too true! But I've been indoors for over twenty years and I'm not totally insane! Ask my ten foot tall bunny friend. He'll agree with me.🙂

Edited January 20, 2022 by Leeanda