suggestion Add a BEAR SPEAR to survival

[Ghurcb]

A lot of people thought that "a new gear item" Hinterland teased was going to be a bear spear. Getting a ballistic vest was a welcome surprise. Except...

We still want to get that bear spear.

First introduced in December of 2018 this gear item was left exclusive to the story mode for 3 years. I believe, you wanted to add it to survival mode even back then (don't remember, where I heard it, though), but adding it to the non-scripted part of the game turned out to be a big problem. But I don't understand how is that a problem...

So, a bear is charging at you. You equip the spear and hold LMB. If by the time the mauling animation should start your stamina hasn't run out, you go into a struggle instead. That struggle would be no different from wolf struggles or the Old bear struggle from episode 2  (except, maybe you don't recieve any damage during it). You mash LMB until the bar is full. If you succeed, the bear runs away bleeding or even dies on the spot. If you fail, you get mauled.

Such a strong weapon should not be easy to make. Forging a spear head should take 20-30 hours (a lot of coal would have to burn) and require both heavy hammer and instruments as well as 4-5 pieces of scrap metal. Then you would have to attach it to the maple sapling shaft.

Each bear struggle would cost you a 10% of spear's durability. Some might think it's too much. But actually, if you're good enough, you can kill 10 bears with one spear. I think, that's fair.

Once the spear is broken, you can harvest 2 sticks and a broken spear head from it. The spear head can be fixed on a forge with 1-2 pieces of scrap metal in 5-8 hours. OR you can break it into 2-3 pieces of scrap metal, if you don't value your hard work.

I don't think the spear should be effective against moose, but it may serve as a high-defence/no-damage weapon in wolf struggles.

 

It shouldn't be hard to implement, right? I'm sure, all the players would LOVE to see a melee weapon added to survival. Sure, we already have knives and hatchets, but those are only used as a last resort against wolves. The spear would serve as a GREAT combination of offence and defence.

[Semple Fi]

Agreed.  I would love the spear to be included.  Perhaps that will be attainable by the release of episode 5.   
 

[Ghurcb]

Now that I think about it, maple sapling wouldn't make for a good spear shaft. It's way too short and light. Here's a better idea.

Oak sapling

They would be VERY rare, growing alone (unlike birches and maples). Taller than the player, one sapling would weigh 1.5 kg.

I think, that would be awesome! Maple for bows, birch for arrows, and oak for spear.

[Ghurcb]

Yes, maple sapling is WAY too short for a spear shaft.

(it's too short for a bow as well, though)

[Ghurcb]

DECEMBER SURVIVAL MODE UPDATE 

"Please note that the Bear Spear is currently a Story-mode only tool. It will be added to Survival Mode in a future update."

This is a part of The Long Dark V1.41 release note.

 

Am I the only one still waiting for that "future update"?

No pressure... I don't want to sound like Hinterland owe us anything (they don't). But it's been 3 years... 

[Bearimpaler101]

 

On 12/8/2021 at 2:25 AM, Ghurcb said:

A lot of people thought that "a new gear item" Hinterland teased was going to be a bear spear. Getting a ballistic vest was a welcome surprise. Except...

We still want to get that bear spear.

First introduced in December of 2018 this gear item was left exclusive to the story mode for 3 years. I believe, you wanted to add it to survival mode even back then (don't remember, where I heard it, though), but adding it to the non-scripted part of the game turned out to be a big problem. But I don't understand how is that a problem...

So, a bear is charging at you. You equip the spear and hold LMB. If by the time the mauling animation should start your stamina hasn't run out, you go into a struggle instead. That struggle would be no different from wolf struggles or the Old bear struggle from episode 2  (except, maybe you don't recieve any damage during it). You mash LMB until the bar is full. If you succeed, the bear runs away bleeding or even dies on the spot. If you fail, you get mauled.

Such a strong weapon should not be easy to make. Forging a spear head should take 20-30 hours (a lot of coal would have to burn) and require both heavy hammer and instruments as well as 4-5 pieces of scrap metal. Then you would have to attach it to the maple sapling shaft.

Each bear struggle would cost you a 10% of spear's durability. Some might think it's too much. But actually, if you're good enough, you can kill 10 bears with one spear. I think, that's fair.

Once the spear is broken, you can harvest 2 sticks and a broken spear head from it. The spear head can be fixed on a forge with 1-2 pieces of scrap metal in 5-8 hours. OR you can break it into 2-3 pieces of scrap metal, if you don't value your hard work.

I don't think the spear should be effective against moose, but it may serve as a high-defence/no-damage weapon in wolf struggles.

 

It shouldn't be hard to implement, right? I'm sure, all the players would LOVE to see a melee weapon added to survival. Sure, we already have knives and hatchets, but those are only used as a last resort against wolves. The spear would serve as a GREAT combination of offence and defence.

Yeah but I think it shouldn't be 30-50hours in episode 2 if memory is a thing in my woodknocker then it took maybe 5 hours

[UpUpAway95]

I do hope they implement it as promised, but I'll let them work out the details (forging mats required, time, etc.)

If implemented, it should definitely be able to also kill a moose or wolf or even a rabbit.  It would make no sense for it to be a "high defence/no damage weapon in wolf struggles" or for it to be "ineffective" against moose.   I honestly don't know how you would justify not being able to lethally inflict damage to any animal in the game with such a sharp implement.

[Bearimpaler101]

I agree

[Ghurcb]

9 hours ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

 

Yeah but I think it shouldn't be 30-50hours in episode 2 if memory is a thing in my woodknocker then it took maybe 5 hours

The thing is, Survivor, you're playing as, is not an experienced blacksmith. And when Mackenzie reforges that old spear in an instant (not 5 hours, I checked), he leaves me wondering "HOW?! How did he not ruin it beyond repair? He knows nothing about forging metal!". The same applies to survival. Producing such a deadly weapon, should be a long process of forging and sharpening, trial and error.

[Ghurcb]

7 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I do hope they implement it as promised, but I'll let them work out the details (forging mats required, time, etc.)

Of course! All the specifics I included here are merely a "sales pitch". Hinterland are free to change anything if they decide to implement anything from this forum. It's their game, after all!

7 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

If implemented, it should definitely be able to also kill a moose or wolf or even a rabbit.

Okay... So you want it to be a throwable weapon then? It's just that people like TLD for how grounded it is. Throwing a spear would feel just fine in forest, ARK or rust. But in The Long Dark it's just... Wrong.

You don't play as an athlete. You're just a regular person with weak ankles. Trowing a spear requires a lot of precision and strength (a spear that can withstand bear's weight, would itself be heavy).

7 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I honestly don't know how you would justify not being able to lethally inflict damage to any animal in the game with such a sharp implement.

Well, wolves are agile. They won't just land on the spear just cause you asked nicely. Moose, on the other hand, spear or no spear, you wouldn't stay on your feet, when met by those antlers.

The way I see it, it would be a high defence/no damage in wolf struggles because you'd have to first get a good grip to strike (similar to revolver). High defence would come from the oak shaft keeping the wolf relatively away.

[Bearimpaler101]

Well ok  you got me  it takes 5 hours of water and good but it's instant

[Leeanda]

In all honesty I can't see it as being that useful.  I wouldn't want to carry it around just in case a bear or moose decides to attack. . I'm overburdened enough as it is.  The rest of the weapons have their uses and carry less risk anyway.  But I guess I'm in the minority on this. 

[Bearimpaler101]

No I think that it should be heavy but carryable so under 5kg oh and if your overweight then set up a base pilgrim. Has truckloads of gear

Set up in Milton or pleasent valley somewhere with a fridge put  meat outside or i n the freezer and carry minimal food with you and only carry one weapon at a time

[UpUpAway95]

8 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

Of course! All the specifics I included here are merely a "sales pitch". Hinterland are free to change anything if they decide to implement anything from this forum. It's their game, after all!

Okay... So you want it to be a throwable weapon then? It's just that people like TLD for how grounded it is. Throwing a spear would feel just fine in forest, ARK or rust. But in The Long Dark it's just... Wrong.

You don't play as an athlete. You're just a regular person with weak ankles. Trowing a spear requires a lot of precision and strength (a spear that can withstand bear's weight, would itself be heavy).

Well, wolves are agile. They won't just land on the spear just cause you asked nicely. Moose, on the other hand, spear or no spear, you wouldn't stay on your feet, when met by those antlers.

The way I see it, it would be a high defence/no damage in wolf struggles because you'd have to first get a good grip to strike (similar to revolver). High defence would come from the oak shaft keeping the wolf relatively away.

Why can't the survivor throw a spear?  What logic is there that would prevent him/her from doing so.  He/she may not be very accurate with it and it might not go far, but if the character can lift it and carry it up and down ropes, chucking it should definitely be possible.  A skill level up with each hit would be in line with what happens with the bow and the guns.  We aren't necessarily playing as an experienced rifleman or archer either.  Drawing a bow takes precision and strength.  Steady aiming a .303 rifle also takes quite a bit of strength

Why can't the survivor brace it against a charging moose or rushing wolf just like is done with a charging bear? and why would it be "ineffective" then in damaging the moose or wolf vs. the bear?  It makes no sense that the weapon would damage a bear and not the other two types of animals as well.  Flesh is flesh and the spear is a a sharp lethal weapon... anything running into it likely would be killed by it.

Edited February 22, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Bearimpaler101]

I say with wolf it's not a struggle it just kills the wolf in one I know that sounds to easy but it decreases condition on the spear and moose yes it should work and yes throwing but the should do rifle damage and bleeding if you hit but if you miss it loses double the condition

[Ghurcb]

Okay, I'll be honest. Sure, realistically you could use a spear against wolves, moose and deers. You could throw it as well. But such a weapon would be nearly impossible to balance. Give it too much damage - it's OP. Too little - useless. The best way to balance such a tool would be by making it extremely useful in some very specific situations.

I mean, it's a BEAR-spear. Not wolf/moose/et.c.-spear. By design, it's made to counter bears.

But why can't you use it to counter anything else? That's where all the excuses are made. "wolves are too agile, they can dodge it", "moose are too fast and heavy to be stopped by a spear" and so on. Those are not bad excuses (although, who am I to judge?), but they only serve the gameplay purpose.

BTW, the perfect (in my opinion) way for it to be used in wolf struggles would be similar to using a revolver. If you fight for long enough, you can stab the wolf. If you're lucky, it'll be killed.

[Bearimpaler101]

Bears are faster than moose

[Ghurcb]

1 hour ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

Bears are faster than moose

I just looked this up. Turns out... The two can reach about the same speed (35mph or 60km/h).

The difference is, black bears weigh up to 250 kg. Moose reach 700 kg.

So.... Moose wins!

 

Bear also wins. The only one who loses is the small and fragile human.

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, Ghurcb said:

I just looked this up. Turns out... The two can reach about the same speed (35mph or 60km/h).

The difference is, black bears weigh up to 250 kg. Moose reach 700 kg.

So.... Moose wins!

 

Bear also wins. The only one who loses is the small and fragile human.

Unless he has a gun in his hand and the use of a pair of ladders!

[Smellyfries]

I personally believe that the bear spear wasn't added to survival because it would ruin the overall presence, and strength that the bear possesses. During survival, the bear is never to be taken lightly, and with low skills with the bow and rifle, attempting to kill a bear will require proper positioning, aiming, and some decent tactics to harvest a bear unharmed, (or some good running if you fail, and ruined clothes it it catches you). Adding the bear spear would make the next 10 bears trivial, as killing a bear via QTE would completely remove all the previous actions I stated earlier. This is likely why the bear spear remains in story mode, during a game where it serves more as a plot device.

This is just my opinion though. If the spear was added to survival, I wouldn't use it.

[Ghurcb]

23 hours ago, Smellyfries said:

I personally believe that the bear spear wasn't added to survival because it would ruin the overall presence, and strength that the bear possesses. During survival, the bear is never to be taken lightly, and with low skills with the bow and rifle, attempting to kill a bear will require proper positioning, aiming, and some decent tactics to harvest a bear unharmed, (or some good running if you fail, and ruined clothes it it catches you). Adding the bear spear would make the next 10 bears trivial, as killing a bear via QTE would completely remove all the previous actions I stated earlier. This is likely why the bear spear remains in story mode, during a game where it serves more as a plot device.

This is just my opinion though. If the spear was added to survival, I wouldn't use it.

Actually... This is a great point that I can't argue against.

 

I'll still try my best, though.

The way I see it, the spear would be a late-game tool (because of the time, instruments and resources required). I mean, now you can guarantee safety when hunting a bear by simply using a flare gun. And those can be found pretty early on if you're lucky. But with a spear, while having a bit of safety, you engage in a more thrilling experience. There's much more raw brute power in fighting such a menacing beast in melee, than in just headshotting it from 30 meters away. Or just wounding it to find the body in a few hours.

You say it would become trivial, but with good execution fighting a bear like this would be extremely interesting.

Though in hindsite, 10 bears with one spear sounds like a little to much from the gameplay point of view. 5 would be better.

[Bearimpaler101]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[Pencil]

In my opinion, the only way the bear spear would work and keep the game balanced would be health and clothing damage during a fight. In episode 2, your clothes do take a hard hit during all of those fights. However, you don't take much health loss unless you don't fight him off quickly. On Stalker and Interloper, using the bear spear on a bear should be risky. 

The forging times you present of over 20 hours seems like too much in my opinion. While it may be realistic to take incredibly long, it would simply be too frustrating in-game and resource consuming -- more than what it's worth. 

Game mechanics might get a little messy when it comes to wolves though. In episode 2, the spear scared all wolves away. This is too op for it to simply act as a wolf force field. I think that in order to stab a charging wolf with the spear, you would have to time it just right. Too late = wolf struggle. Too early = the wolf backs away or circles around you, but doesn't run off. In an actual struggle though, I would think that the spear is too heavy and too large to fight back with. I don't think it should be an option to use during struggles. 

It shouldn't work against moose; with a charging moose, it could easily knock it away the spear and take you down. 

My personal opinions on the subject. I was really hoping for a spear this last update. Maybe we'll get it one of these days... I do hope the devs add it eventually. Have they said anything about it in any other dev diaries or updates, other than what they said in the December update several years ago? 

[Bearimpaler101]

14 minutes ago, Pencil said:

In my opinion, the only way the bear spear would work and keep the game balanced would be health and clothing damage during a fight. In episode 2, your clothes do take a hard hit during all of those fights. However, you don't take much health loss unless you don't fight him off quickly. On Stalker and Interloper, using the bear spear on a bear should be risky. 

The forging times you present of over 20 hours seems like too much in my opinion. While it may be realistic to take incredibly long, it would simply be too frustrating in-game and resource consuming -- more than what it's worth. 

Game mechanics might get a little messy when it comes to wolves though. In episode 2, the spear scared all wolves away. This is too op for it to simply act as a wolf force field. I think that in order to stab a charging wolf with the spear, you would have to time it just right. Too late = wolf struggle. Too early = the wolf backs away or circles around you, but doesn't run off. In an actual struggle though, I would think that the spear is too heavy and too large to fight back with. I don't think it should be an option to use during struggles. 

It shouldn't work against moose; with a charging moose, it could easily knock it away the spear and take you down. 

My personal opinions on the subject. I was really hoping for a spear this last update. Maybe we'll get it one of these days... I do hope the devs add it eventually. Have they said anything about it in any other dev diaries or updates, other than what they said in the December update several years ago? 

I agree with the wolves part but moose i'm not sure I think you shouldn't be able to use it but it keeps moose from attacking you as in when it gets close enough with a set spear  a "struggle" occurs more likecutscene where the moose tries to stomp but sees the spear and backs off but still takes spear damage

[Ghurcb]

On 3/25/2022 at 5:30 AM, Pencil said:

The forging times you present of over 20 hours seems like too much in my opinion. While it may be realistic to take incredibly long, it would simply be too frustrating in-game and resource consuming -- more than what it's worth. 

Well, it takes 30 hours to make a bearskin coat, and it's not even the best clothing item due to its weight. Of course, the spear would also require you to burn coal while forging it, but that's a pretty fair way of making it a late-game tool. And you don't have to do it all in one go. AND once you make the first spear, making the second will take less time, as you already have the spear head.

On 3/25/2022 at 5:30 AM, Pencil said:

Have they said anything about it in any other dev diaries or updates, other than what they said in the December update several years ago? 

Nope. Complete silence ever since.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Ghurcb