Something in between stalker and interloper


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I really wish there was something in between stalker and interloper.  At this point, stalker is too easy for me, but interloper relies so heavily on luck.  From where you spawn to the items that drop, luck plays too great a role on loper.  I would do custom, but it acts strangely sometimes and doesn't count toward badges, which I'm still working on.  The skill jump between the two is too great.

I also wish we could make broth in the game.  This would allow you to heat up with meat.

That is all.

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8 hours ago, Patchouli said:

I really wish there was something in between stalker and interloper.  At this point, stalker is too easy for me, but interloper relies so heavily on luck.  From where you spawn to the items that drop, luck plays too great a role on loper.  I would do custom, but it acts strangely sometimes and doesn't count toward badges, which I'm still working on.  The skill jump between the two is too great.

I also wish we could make broth in the game.  This would allow you to heat up with meat.

That is all.

Interloper has absolutely nothing to do with luck. Not even a little. It is entirely knowledge of the maps and knowing where to go to get resources and shelter. There is also leverage of the game mechanics as well But, There is absolutey zero luck. 
   The only luck you could argue is if you get an easier start like HRV or a harder start like DP but in either case you will still survive out of skill not luck. A skilled interloper player will always survive every run (with the exception of a surprise early wolf attack “through” the torch or fire) and can also survive indefinitely at that.  Every skilled interloper player has a plan as soon as they recognize the map they start on and they know exactly where they are going.  They know the next 2 regions they will visit before they leave the starting one. Also once they get the forge run done and have bow and arrows, the game is owned and survival is as long as they want with way more comfort and leisure. 

Edited by Lord of the Long Dark
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It relies on luck when you know the game well, but don't know every single one of the maps and what drops where.  That was the point I was making when I said the skill jump is too great.  I can survive just fine on loper for a long time in DP, CH, ML, or Pleasant Valley, because I know those maps.  However, I was dropped onto the top of Timberwolf Mountain (which I do not know) about 10 minutes before a long blizzard.  I couldn't see where I was going well enough to even use an online map.  I ended up with hypothermia.  I had no matches or sleeping bag and died before the blizzard was even over.  The next run I was dropped in Ash Canyon.  Similar issues.  

What I'm saying is it would be nice if there was a level that was harder than stalker, but wasn't so dependent on learning every single thing about every single map.  

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41 minutes ago, Patchouli said:

It relies on luck when you know the game well, but don't know every single one of the maps and what drops where.  That was the point I was making when I said the skill jump is too great.  I can survive just fine on loper for a long time in DP, CH, ML, or Pleasant Valley, because I know those maps.  However, I was dropped onto the top of Timberwolf Mountain (which I do not know) about 10 minutes before a long blizzard.  I couldn't see where I was going well enough to even use an online map.  I ended up with hypothermia.  I had no matches or sleeping bag and died before the blizzard was even over.  The next run I was dropped in Ash Canyon.  Similar issues.  

What I'm saying is it would be nice if there was a level that was harder than stalker, but wasn't so dependent on learning every single thing about every single map.  

Then like I said. Luck has nothing to do with it. For exactly the reasons you said. Otherwise you must agree ALL play levels rely on luck for the exact same reasons. You don’t need an easier level. You just need to learn another map.  Just as before. 
Everything is magic until it’s science. There is no magic.
 

Edited by Lord of the Long Dark
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I agree with @Corso in that if you want a game somewhere in between you should familiarize yourself with custom game settings.
You can make it as cold as a blast freezer if you like and you can dial up the frequency and aggressiveness of the wildlife, but can still spawn weapons and craft 
bullets as that seems to be what most players want who have previously posted a similar suggestion.  Maybe even try a forever night scenario or try only to survive wearing nothing but worn out tennis shoes and some old driving gloves...

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My issue is that you can't work toward badges on custom settings.  I was playing as something between stalker and interloper on custom until I learned that you can't earn badges.

On 10/12/2021 at 11:59 AM, Lord of the Long Dark said:

Then like I said. Luck has nothing to do with it. For exactly the reasons you said. Otherwise you must agree ALL play levels rely on luck for the exact same reasons. You don’t need an easier level. You just need to learn another map.  Just as before. 
Everything is magic until it’s science. There is no magic.
 

I feel like you're focusing on one thing I said and missing my point.  To have to learn EVERY map just so that you can play on a higher level is annoying.  I'm not asking for loper to be nerfed.  I'm asking for something in between that also allows you to earn badges.

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41 minutes ago, Patchouli said:

My issue is that you can't work toward badges on custom settings.  I was playing as something between stalker and interloper on custom until I learned that you can't earn badges.

I feel like you're focusing on one thing I said and missing my point.  To have to learn EVERY map just so that you can play on a higher level is annoying.  I'm not asking for loper to be nerfed.  I'm asking for something in between that also allows you to earn badges.

 You ONLY have to know where the critical item locations and key structures are in each map. Knowing those is not luck. It’s a skill. 
 And even if you are correct and you do have to know every map (and I’ll even agree you are probably correct about that): Knowing a map is not luck. That’s a skill. No amount of luck allows you to know a map.
  Therefore, as I said, There is no luck in interloper.

  Any time you dont have a skill, you rely on luck. That’s true for anything in life, not just interloper in TLD. 

Edited by Lord of the Long Dark
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8 minutes ago, Patchouli said:

My issue is that you can't work toward badges on custom settings.  I was playing as something between stalker and interloper on custom until I learned that you can't earn badges.

So what are you saying exactly?  That you find it too easy to attain a badge playing stalker mode or that it's too hard for you  to get a badge playing interloper?
This discussion about achievements and badges has been bantered about many times on these forums and is always leaving two polarized points of view.  Those that say it works just fine and those that say it ought to be changed.  To date nothing has changed and probably never will...

In my opinion they just oughta revamp the badges, into categories like bronze, silver and gold like they do in many other games.  I guess Pilgrim players just get a certificate of completion or a participation trophy, lol.    If you've ever played a racing game where the difference of .1 seconds stands between your earning the silver vs. the gold medal then you probably know that you need both skill and knowledge to win.    But like @Lord of the Long Dark said, you don't have to learn every map in intimate detail in order to successfully survive when playing the game.   It helps though...

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4 hours ago, Lord of the Long Dark said:

 You ONLY have to know where the critical item locations and key structures are in each map. Knowing those is not luck. It’s a skill. 
 And even if you are correct and you do have to know every map (and I’ll even agree you are probably correct about that): Knowing a map is not luck. That’s a skill. No amount of luck allows you to know a map.
  Therefore, as I said, There is no luck in interloper.

  Any time you dont have a skill, you rely on luck. That’s true for anything in life, not just interloper in TLD. 

You are definitely misunderstanding me.  The luck I'm referring to was in spawning in whiteout conditions and dying before I could even ascertain where I was.  That's luck and has nothing to do with my skill.  But, I will 100% agree that you need to know the maps.  What I am saying is that it would be nice if there was a skill level that does not rely entirely on map knowledge, but is harder than stalker and still awards badges.  I cannot be the only person bored of stalker, but who hasn't played since a bunch of zones were added.  I bought the game back in...2014?  At this point, I'd have to play each map JUST to learn them before I can up my skill challenge.  It's no skin off your nose whether or not they do this.

3 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

So what are you saying exactly?  That you find it too easy to attain a badge playing stalker mode or that it's too hard for you  to get a badge playing interloper?

I'm saying I would like a greater challenge than stalker while earning my badges, but  not as dependent on map knowledge as interloper.  Something in between the scarcity of interloper and the copious amount of stuff that stalker offers.

With this, I'm going to stop responding because I've asked for what I would like and that's all I needed to do.

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Custom settings aren't always cutting it because they aren't granular enough. Especially in regards to loot. There is a gigantic gap between Stalker where loot is everywhere and Interloper where it's very rare. But you can't select anything between.

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9 hours ago, manolitode said:

Care to elaborate? 

a lot of the people I have seen playing... so I should correct myself, not most.. know the loot tables. SO say on a new start they spawn in TWM and they go to the Mountaineers Hut and find the heavy hammer... they know which loot table they are on and they now know where every key item they require for survival is in the game. It makes survival so much easier than if loot was randomized in every instance and not predictable and they are therefore playing the system.... if it was random and not predictable then  they would be playing the game.

Edited by Cr41g
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1 hour ago, Cr41g said:

a lot of the people I have seen playing... so I should correct myself, not most.. know the loot tables. SO say on a new start they spawn in TWM and they go to the Mountaineers Hut and find the heavy hammer... they know which loot table they are on and they now know where every key item they require for survival is in the game. It makes survival so much easier than if loot was randomized in every instance and not predictable and they are therefore playing the system.... if it was random and not predictable then  they would be playing the game.

I would love to have randomized loper loot. The more you play the more you know where possible and guaranteed spawns are. There would probably be way more rage quitting without guaranteed matches ☠️

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5 hours ago, Cr41g said:

a lot of the people I have seen playing... so I should correct myself, not most.. know the loot tables. SO say on a new start they spawn in TWM and they go to the Mountaineers Hut and find the heavy hammer... they know which loot table they are on and they now know where every key item they require for survival is in the game. It makes survival so much easier than if loot was randomized in every instance and not predictable and they are therefore playing the system.... if it was random and not predictable then  they would be playing the game.

Thanks for clarifying, you make a fair point. Quite a few people seem to do it. I probably wouldn't enjoy that, I like the unpredictableness, but yeah you do have a hunch about the looting table in the back of your head after many playthroughs even if you haven't tried to remember zip, it's like a sixth sense or something. Knowing your looting table likely make your life easier in drunkenloper (whoever coined the term, thank you, you are a legend) but even then there are plenty of other obstacles you have to master to endure. A hammer in your inventory may make you happy but it doesn't make you a long term dopelope. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Personally, I'd really like an additional difficulty level between the two as well.  Basically, I'd like to have it be interloper difficulty but with firearms.

Stalker is too easy.  I have mountains of fish and wolf meat and my rifle is death embodied.  Interloper is too hard without memorizing the location of every piece of loot.  I have no wish to do that.  I can barely get over 50 days in interloper.

 

I don't see how to get Interloper difficulty but with guns.  If anyone has a "shareable code" for that I'd appreciate it.

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2 hours ago, I_eat_only_wolf_meat said:

Personally, I'd really like an additional difficulty level between the two as well.  Basically, I'd like to have it be interloper difficulty but with firearms.

Stalker is too easy.  I have mountains of fish and wolf meat and my rifle is death embodied.  Interloper is too hard without memorizing the location of every piece of loot.  I have no wish to do that.  I can barely get over 50 days in interloper.

 

I don't see how to get Interloper difficulty but with guns.  If anyone has a "shareable code" for that I'd appreciate it.

here, give this a try...

8lvs-/jMD-Di2X-TeGW-OGMC

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11 hours ago, I_eat_only_wolf_meat said:

Personally, I'd really like an additional difficulty level between the two as well.  Basically, I'd like to have it be interloper difficulty but with firearms.

Stalker is too easy.  I have mountains of fish and wolf meat and my rifle is death embodied.  Interloper is too hard without memorizing the location of every piece of loot.  I have no wish to do that.  I can barely get over 50 days in interloper.

 

I don't see how to get Interloper difficulty but with guns.  If anyone has a "shareable code" for that I'd appreciate it.

If you can get 50 days in interloper You shoud easily be able to live 500 days. By 50 days you should have a bow and double bear coat. With those you should easily survive indefinitely. 

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On 10/12/2021 at 8:25 PM, Patchouli said:

I can survive just fine on loper for a long time in DP, CH, ML, or Pleasant Valley, because I know those maps. 

They are also the easiest maps to survive, especially on Stalker with Rifle and Revolver. You have the game since 2014 but have never been in TWM? Maybe that's the problem, I would be tremendously bored if I'd limit my experience to these maps, no matter the difficulty level. If you are looking for something in between Stalker and Interloper, try surviving on Stalker in HRV, AC, BI or TWM for a few hundred days and limit the use of guns. This will teach you how to survive without relying on loot luck, make you more comfortable with the maps and provide that extra challenge you are looking for in Stalker.

Btw, a good preparation for Interloper is the Faithful Cartographer achievement done in Stalker. By doing that you will learn all maps and what you can expect from them while still having the safety of the gun and some loot worth looking for. Once you've completed this, you will be ready for Interloper and most likely come to the conclusion yourself, that luck is the least deciding factor for your success.

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23 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

here, give this a try...

8lvs-/jMD-Di2X-TeGW-OGMC

I tried this and it was fun.  Ultimately, I went into custom mode and loaded the Interloper level of difficulty, and changed four things:

Changed "baseline resource availability" from low to medium

Changed "Calorie Burn Rate" from Very High to High

Made revolvers available

Made rifles available

 

I hope this will be a little harder than "stalker", but still allow a little exploration and fun.

14 hours ago, Lord of the Long Dark said:

If you can get 50 days in interloper You shoud easily be able to live 500 days. By 50 days you should have a bow and double bear coat. With those you should easily survive indefinitely. 

I guess you're probably right.  Do you find that your activity is very constrained (like only fishing and going back to your safe house over and over again for hundreds of days?)

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27 minutes ago, I_eat_only_wolf_meat said:

I tried this and it was fun.  Ultimately, I went into custom mode and loaded the Interloper level of difficulty, and changed four things:

Changed "baseline resource availability" from low to medium

Changed "Calorie Burn Rate" from Very High to High

Made revolvers available

Made rifles available

 

I hope this will be a little harder than "stalker", but still allow a little exploration and fun.

I guess you're probably right.  Do you find that your activity is very constrained (like only fishing and going back to your safe house over and over again for hundreds of days?)

Weren't rifles and revolvers available?  They should have been on.  Sorry if they weren't.  I could have sworn I turned those on.

Anyways, I totally understand where you are coming from.  It's the long game that gets kinda boring after a while considering that once you have achieved that level of self sufficiency that just surviving in the sandbox without really having anything to do gets extremely boring after a while.  For me, boredom typically sets in after 250 days in game.  My character is very well established by that point with multiple base camps scattered about the island and just merely passing time becomes more like busy work than gaming.    I hope at some point when modding becomes supported that activities like reading a book or playing solitaire become available. 

Heck the game basically starts with Will sitting at his desk playing solitaire, not much to ask to find a deck of cards is it?

screen_cb3c76a1-42ae-44b6-87f7-b01482dd99a6_hi.thumb.png.699e3a9a6a52e41da19a5660881780f2.png

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28 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

Heck the game basically starts with Will sitting at his desk playing solitaire, not much to ask to find a deck of cards is it?

 

When we rest we here Will/Astrid playing cards, bet that's solitaire :D Unfortunately we don't get to play ourselfs.

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