Change in Survival mode related to Episode 4 Update.


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You may have noticed at the bottom of the inventory screens that there is now an option to:

Move all to container

Move all to inventory

This feature is limited by the capacity of the container (obviously one cannot move more into a container than it can hold).  Presumably an individual's inventory capacity is not limited though, of course, moving 200 kg of sticks from a large cabinet to inventory might be a bit of a pain. It appeared to not include any equipped item like worn clothing in the mass transfer. 

I saw this feature appear in a play-through of Episode 4 and did not realize that it apparently applied to survival mode too. 

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Found that, some places I had entered before episode 4 update were showing up as New Locations.  It might not matter to most, but thought to let folks know what had happened. I reported this to support. 

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15 hours ago, UTC-10 said:

You may have noticed at the bottom of the inventory screens that there is now an option

Wow, I completely missed that.  Cool addition, thanks for mentioning it.

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To expand on my previous game thinks places already found are "New Location Discovered", I have found that it looks like the majority of [I should mention interior] locations in my save game get treated that way (Desolation, Coastal) since Episode 4 went live and I have even found that every time I enter a place like a Coastal House at Waterfront Cottages the place is New Location Discovered.

Does not really affect me and I would expect that Hinterland will fix this  as part of a hotfix of something more important or in the winter survival update when Blackrock Region should become available in Survival mode. 

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Be aware that when moving things like hides and guts that the game can now combine individual or groupings items of slightly different conditions (i.e. 100% and 99%) into one grouping when moving things back and forth.  It requires that the character move things from storage to inventory.  I discovered this when moving cured hides and guts around. The total number of items were there but, as an unexpected change, I was concerned about where some stuff had gone.  What happened to my 99% cured guts?!?

I reported this and while the explanation seemed plausible I would have preferred that the game not do that or maybe have had patch notes to explain it.  Assuming I actually read and understood any patch notes.  😅

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I just really hope that if the Noisemakers are implemented for the Survival mode in future update, they are treated just like guns ie forbidden from higher difficulty loot tables... In theory they seem nice but are far too easy to make and dealing with timberwolves becomes too convenient. They also work like a revolver ie you can just walk into wolf areas blasting your way through without even running...

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23 hours ago, UTC-10 said:

Be aware that when moving things like hides and guts that the game can now combine individual or groupings items of slightly different conditions (i.e. 100% and 99%) into one grouping when moving things back and forth.  It requires that the character move things from storage to inventory.  I discovered this when moving cured hides and guts around. The total number of items were there but, as an unexpected change, I was concerned about where some stuff had gone.  What happened to my 99% cured guts?!?

I reported this and while the explanation seemed plausible I would have preferred that the game not do that or maybe have had patch notes to explain it.  Assuming I actually read and understood any patch notes.  😅

I hope that this applies to arrows. I would prefer to have 1 stack of arrows in my inventory regardless of their condition.

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13 hours ago, Mistral said:

I just really hope that if the Noisemakers are implemented for the Survival mode in future update, they are treated just like guns ie forbidden from higher difficulty loot tables... In theory they seem nice but are far too easy to make and dealing with timberwolves becomes too convenient. They also work like a revolver ie you can just walk into wolf areas blasting your way through without even running...

Gunpowder is also EXTREMELY common in episode 4. One can of gunpowder = 50 bullets, but only 5 noisemakers. With the amount of gunpowder you'd find on Interloper, you wouldn't exactly be able to spam these things out willy nilly. Maybe craft up 5 to use in case of emergency, then that's all you have until you find or craft more gunpowder, assuming you're even willing to risk Bleak Inlet in order to do so. I think it would be good to include on Interloper, because it provides an actual use for gunpowder besides just accelerant, and you certainly don't HAVE to craft noisemakers.

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6 hours ago, ajb1978 said:

Gunpowder is also EXTREMELY common in episode 4. One can of gunpowder = 50 bullets, but only 5 noisemakers. With the amount of gunpowder you'd find on Interloper, you wouldn't exactly be able to spam these things out willy nilly. Maybe craft up 5 to use in case of emergency, then that's all you have until you find or craft more gunpowder, assuming you're even willing to risk Bleak Inlet in order to do so. I think it would be good to include on Interloper, because it provides an actual use for gunpowder besides just accelerant, and you certainly don't HAVE to craft noisemakers.

If you roam your different regions, gunpowder isn't that rare on Interloper really... about as rare as, I don't know, firestriker. Besides you only need 2 or 3 noisemakers to completely escape from Timber attack without taking any damage... or to blast your way through the narrow wolf spots at AC. 

The only way I would find them more welcome is if you had to use the BI ammunition workbench to make them, instead of the ability to craft them on any normal workbench. Then there would at least be an incentive to go to Bleak on Loper/Deadman

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Is it me or can you no longer open those glass door fridges in stores? I was kind of able to reach through the glass to get something behind, but previously you needed to open the door a bit and reach in the side. Tricky sometimes, but much more immersive.

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1 minute ago, Serenity said:

Is it me or can you no longer open those glass door fridges in stores? I was kind of able to reach through the glass to get something behind, but previously you needed to open the door a bit and reach in the side. Tricky sometimes, but much more immersive.

I guess ıf the fridge glass is broken you don’t need to open but ıf there was no broken glass you need to open the door. But sometimes ıt’s hard to see (esp. the fridge in maintenance shed  in Broken Railroad)

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On 10/18/2021 at 10:40 AM, Mistral said:

I just really hope that if the Noisemakers are implemented for the Survival mode in future update, they are treated just like guns ie forbidden from higher difficulty loot tables... In theory they seem nice but are far too easy to make and dealing with timberwolves becomes too convenient. They also work like a revolver ie you can just walk into wolf areas blasting your way through without even running...

I don't think hinterland will exclude them from loper and higher difficulties otherwise tin cans would be completely useless.

Although improvised smoke grenades made from tin cans could replace noisemakers, rathen scaring away they could confuse wildlife or disorient them, turning it into an emergency escape plan that HAS a chance to work rathen quickly getting TW out of your way by causing explosives noises.

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I have noticed that with what I presume was the episode 4 update that the ravaged deer carcasses that have always been at Waterfront Cottages and on the ice near the Coastal Townsite have disappeared.  This was in Coastal Highway.  I don't touch the one at Waterfront Cottages as I don't need to and I used the one at Coastal Townsite as a source of crow feathers (until I got too many of them) so never touch that one either.  

I noticed the Waterfront Cottages missing carcass first but now as I went out to fish I noticed that the carcass that should be near the line of campfires I put down as a trail to and from the ice fishing hut was gone as well. 

Now that I think about it the ravaged deer carcass that should (usually/always) be at the Bear Creek Campground (picnic area) was also gone.  I had assumed it was one of those if it appeared things.  Maybe not now that I find other ravaged deer carcasses that always were in their usual spots also missing.  

Not sure whether that was intended or not. 

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On 10/7/2021 at 10:04 PM, UTC-10 said:

You may have noticed at the bottom of the inventory screens that there is now an option to:

Move all to container

Move all to inventory

I noticed this too but I think it is bugged, at least in survival mode. I moved all my water into a coal bin and continued to boil water. But the newly boiled water didn't end up in my inventory, it was added to the water in the coal bin. What's worse, I couldn't move the water back into my inventory from the coal bin and ultimately had to quit the game and start again from the previous save (and melt 20l of snow again :(). Anyone else noticed this?

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2 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

I noticed this too but I think it is bugged, at least in survival mode. I moved all my water into a coal bin and continued to boil water. But the newly boiled water didn't end up in my inventory, it was added to the water in the coal bin. What's worse, I couldn't move the water back into my inventory from the coal bin and ultimately had to quit the game and start again from the previous save (and melt 20l of snow again :(). Anyone else noticed this?

There's a thread somewhere about storing water problems so you're not the only one!

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On 10/26/2021 at 7:52 AM, UTC-10 said:

I have noticed that with what I presume was the episode 4 update that the ravaged deer carcasses that have always been at Waterfront Cottages and on the ice near the Coastal Townsite have disappeared.  This was in Coastal Highway.  I don't touch the one at Waterfront Cottages as I don't need to and I used the one at Coastal Townsite as a source of crow feathers (until I got too many of them) so never touch that one either.  

I noticed the Waterfront Cottages missing carcass first but now as I went out to fish I noticed that the carcass that should be near the line of campfires I put down as a trail to and from the ice fishing hut was gone as well. 

Now that I think about it the ravaged deer carcass that should (usually/always) be at the Bear Creek Campground (picnic area) was also gone.  I had assumed it was one of those if it appeared things.  Maybe not now that I find other ravaged deer carcasses that always were in their usual spots also missing.  

Not sure whether that was intended or not. 

Based on my experience - since the ep. 4 update - all carcasses in a region start to decay the moment you enter the region regardless of you interacting with the carcass or not. For example, you start in TWM, the carcasses are there on day 1. By day 3-4, they start disappearing, especially if there's a blizzard. However, if you leave for PV, the carcasses there will still be intact.

For a different scenario, let's say you loot a bit of TWM, and you also loot the AC transition cave. If you leave the cave on the AC side even for just a quick peek, the carcasses in AC start decaying immediately too. So if you then turn back, leave for PV and then come back 10 days later, you won't find any carcasses in not just TWM, but in AC either.

If you don't leave the cave on the AC side and then come back 10 days later, the AC carcasses will still be there - for a few days.

As a sidenote, this makes Deadman with no prey animals (no deer, rabbit or fish) and low bear/moose spawn super challenging. Food is suddenly very hard to come by. I had several attempts before finally being able to reach day 50 yesterday, lost the well fed buff in every attempt, had to take the parasite risk in every attempt.

Don't know if it's a bug or a feature.

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A couple other things I noticed:

- Wolves sometimes get stuck in the howling animation. You hear the bark, the game registers a wolf encounter, but the wolf stays put. A second later, the wolf barks again, another wolf encounter is registered, and it keeps repeating until you leave detection range. (I have silly high wolf encounter numbers in my current run because of this.)

- I'm not sure if this is an actual change, but I don't remember this happening before. Wolves in the region seem to concentrate near killspots the next morning. Happened 3 times in a few days in different locations. I killed the wolf near the trailers in front of Carter Dam late in the evening, harvested the meat only, cooked it and took it inside, next morning a wolf attacked me in the exact same place just as I left the trailer, despite the carcass of the dead wolf still lying there. Little bit later I killed the 2 wolves at the Hunting Lodge in BR, only harvested a bit of meat from one then went inside to sleep, when I took a peek outside at dawn, there was a third wolf strolling around who wasn't there before. Finally, killed both wolves at the maintenance yard in BR, next day I found 4 wolves patrolling the yard. (In case you're wondering, I drop meat immediately after harvesting, so it can't be the smell.)

I might be wrong, but I feel like I used to be able to kill wolves in an area and be safe there until the wolves respawned, especially if I left bits and pieces on the carcasses so they doesn't disappear. Having said that, this might still work once the other wolves coming in from nearby areas are killed too. It's also possible that the change is simply related to the slightly different settings I'm using compared to the vanilla loper I was doing before.

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The loss of ravaged animal carcasses that were spawned when the sandbox was created would be a major change of something that was long-standing.   

Implementing such a change for a story mode update, as opposed to a survival mode update, which lacked any kind of patch notes would be unusual but not impossible.   It is unexpected changes like that which can seriously handicap a player who is unaware of the change and needed those carcasses for survival.  I would hope that Hinterland would eventually make reference to that change if change it is. 

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52 minutes ago, UTC-10 said:

The loss of ravaged animal carcasses that were spawned when the sandbox was created would be a major change of something that was long-standing.   

Implementing such a change for a story mode update, as opposed to a survival mode update, which lacked any kind of patch notes would be unusual but not impossible.   It is unexpected changes like that which can seriously handicap a player who is unaware of the change and needed those carcasses for survival.  I would hope that Hinterland would eventually make reference to that change if change it is. 

I tested this on 7 different new runs, same result every time, but you might have misunderstood me.

You enter a new region, there are carcasses at the usual places, even if you enter the region for the first time on day 300. (So the decaying doesn't start when the sandbox is created. It starts when you enter a region for the first time, no matter how short that time is.) Say you never went to HRV in your run until day 200, it will still have carcasses on day 201. They disappear after blizzards regardless of interaction.

But if you go back to an already visited region 5 days later, there will be no carcasses at all. None, zero, nada. It was like this every time, no exceptions, even if I just popped my head over to a region on day 1, and then went back there on day 5. There was nothing there.

You bet it threw me a curveball, haha, food was already an issue on my settings.

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Well that is new and a change. 

Conventional wisdom up to that point would be never touch a ravaged animal carcass that spawned with the sandbox unless you expect to harvest it.  Don't even look at what it contains that is touching it.  This has been the case for several years. 

I do not dispute that the devs can change things at their discretion.  I would only think that they should mention that they were making that change.  In general, I play easy mode so it really does not hamper my game play.  

Good luck to everyone. 

Hmmm, I recall that the spray paint marks were supposed to be permanent until episode 4 where they were supposed to start to degrade.  I wonder if maybe the wrong thing got flagged.  😉

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Couple more changes I just remembered:

- no matches at the summit in 4 visits

- no stim under the crate in the maintenance yard in BR. I know this was not a 100% spawn, but it's been 0/5 visits since the update, combined with another player's stats.

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I have just noticed that the calorie content of raw meat is different in a few cases from before and after the update.

Raw                              Before           After             Cooked (Lvl 5)

Wolf                             700               800                  875

Deer                             800               900                 1,000

Bear and Moose        900               900                 1,125

Since most people do not eat raw meat the Before and After for raw meat does not really matter that much, but note that the cooked calories content then equals 1.25 x Before but not 1.25 x After.  If the After numbers were intended then the Cooked numbers should go up accordingly.  That would put venison on the same level as bear and moose meat and wolf meat on the same level as old venison, so it seems likely that somewhere a couple numbers got glitched.

I did some cooking just to verify that the calories from cooked wolf and deer meat remained the same while the raw calories were different. Just to be sure. 

Just anomalous behavior in game that I am pretty sure will be fixed at some point.  Not critical unless someone makes a habit of eating raw wolf and deer meat.  :)

 

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