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A bow drill that can be crafted using two sticks and cured gut after reaching level 4 fire skill I feel would be a very good addition for players in the late game that don't want to have to always carry their torches.

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A perfectly reasonable idea that has been suggested by many along with flint and steel.  

Although what the devs do is their own business, I would not expect to see such a device until the end of Wintermute aka Story mode. 

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Would be nice... not really needed since even on Loper you get 20,000+ matches and 100 fire strikers and bunch of flares on top as well, but perhaps they could compensate by cutting their ridiculous numbers massively...

And since infinite, easy mag lens fires exists anyway, I'd suggest bow drill be doable right from the start with a stick and birch bark, with these more realistic chances of success:

Fire starting 1: 10%; Fire starting 2: 25%, Fire starting 3: 40%, Fire starting 4: 55%, Fire Starting 5: 90%

Also decrease mag lens fire starting chances by 20-30% each level...

Edited by Mistral
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I think it could be useful as it would help you to live on a single map, like the lake cabin in timberwolf mountains. If we had that plus bone or stone tools/arrows we could make without a forge we could attempt to live in remote areas "off the land" much more than is currently possible. That sounds fun to me.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, odizzido said:

I think it could be useful as it would help you to live on a single map, like the lake cabin in timberwolf mountains. If we had that plus bone or stone tools/arrows we could make without a forge we could attempt to live in remote areas "off the land" much more than is currently possible. That sounds fun to me.

But couldn't you already live forever on Timberwolf Mountain as long as you have mag lens? You don't need forge or bow or hatchet or knives to just live on rabbits alone. You don't even need a bedroll thanks to Mountaineers hut bed

Edited by Mistral
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21 minutes ago, Mistral said:

But couldn't you already live forever on Timberwolf Mountain as long as you have mag lens? You don't need forge or bow or hatchet or knives to just live on rabbits alone. You don't even need a bedroll thanks to Mountaineers hut bed

If you want to survive by stunning rabbits, yes it's technically possible. But you'll eventually have to fix your clothes... which means you'll have take down deer, and/or wolves/bears.

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4 hours ago, Glflegolas said:

If you want to survive by stunning rabbits, yes it's technically possible. But you'll eventually have to fix your clothes... which means you'll have take down deer, and/or wolves/bears.

You don't need to stun the rabbits, snaring is way more economical in the long run

And as for clothing, unless you are playing Deadman mode, you don't actually need to have clothing to speak of to survive almost indefinitely. Naked runs are certainly possible as long as you have infinite place to sleep, infinite fires, and infinite food supply.

As bonus, respawning birch bark also works as 1. Warming buff to compensate for lack of clothing. 2. Calories. 3. Condition compensation. Again, unless playing Deadman.

So no, you do not necessarily need any  tools beyond mag lens and some thing to cook water on (/teas).  And workbench for optional/recommended snare crafting but obviously TMW (and all other maps with the exception of HRV) has that covered. 

Edited by Mistral
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@MistralSnares need reclaimed wood to make, though, and that's a finite resource.

Also it IS possible to lure deer towards wolves, and scare the wolves off with fires or torches, so you'd have an infinite supply of deer hides. Didn't think of that one.

I don't know if saplings respawn but if they do then arrows/bows are a renewable resource too.

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4 minutes ago, Glflegolas said:

@MistralSnares need reclaimed wood to make, though, and that's a finite resource.

Also it IS possible to lure deer towards wolves, and scare the wolves off with fires or torches, so you'd have an infinite supply of deer hides. Didn't think of that one.

I don't know if saplings respawn but if they do then arrows/bows are a renewable resource too.

If you harvest a broken snare you always get new reclaimed wood out of it, so you can keep recycling forever. So okay you need the INITIAL recycled wood but again they should be on every map, with possible exception of HRV (can't remember right now)

Yes you are right on the luring part.

Saplings do not respawn (except perhaps for beach combing) but aren't necessary 

Edited by Mistral
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On 6/2/2021 at 6:11 AM, Mistral said:

Would be nice... not really needed since even on Loper you get 20,000+ matches and 100 fire strikers and bunch of flares on top as well, but perhaps they could compensate by cutting their ridiculous numbers massively...

And since infinite, easy mag lens fires exists anyway, I'd suggest bow drill be doable right from the start with a stick and birch bark, with these more realistic chances of success:

Fire starting 1: 10%; Fire starting 2: 25%, Fire starting 3: 40%, Fire starting 4: 55%, Fire Starting 5: 90%

Also decrease mag lens fire starting chances by 20-30% each level...

Where are these 20 thousand matches at? I'm down to my last 22 and i haven't found a single fire striker after looting the entirety of mystery lake, mountain town and forlorn muskeg, plus 50-70% of pleasant valley. 

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2 hours ago, Killerboom204 said:

Where are these 20 thousand matches at? I'm down to my last 22 and i haven't found a single fire striker after looting the entirety of mystery lake, mountain town and forlorn muskeg, plus 50-70% of pleasant valley. 

Nah, the real number is about 300+ matches in a single Interloper save file. I found 31 boxes in total in my current playthrough which is 372 matches. And there might still be a box or two that I've missed somewhere, to be honest.

But that number is still ridiculously a lot as long as mag lens exist. If your mag lens fire game is strong, a single box of 12 matches can easily outlast a full in-game year.

Edited by gotmilkanot
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14 hours ago, gotmilkanot said:

Nah, the real number is about 300+ matches in a single Interloper save file. I found 31 boxes in total in my current playthrough which is 372 matches. And there might still be a box or two that I've missed somewhere, to be honest.

But that number is still ridiculously a lot as long as mag lens exist. If your mag lens fire game is strong, a single box of 12 matches can easily outlast a full in-game year.

Yeah I agree, a year, if not even more... once you are settled in, you won't ever be needing matches if you plan your days in advance, except in dire emergency

There's quite a bit more "match wasting" on Deadman but even there, the match armada is overly generous

Edited by Mistral
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On 6/3/2021 at 8:23 AM, Mistral said:

But couldn't you already live forever on Timberwolf Mountain as long as you have mag lens? You don't need forge or bow or hatchet or knives to just live on rabbits alone. You don't even need a bedroll thanks to Mountaineers hut bed

I don't think I would enjoy it if every day is wake up, snare rabbit, collect wood, eat+drink, sleep. There would be no way to really better my situation or improve efficiency or mix up the gameplay at all.

If I could use bone/stone tools to make clothing and use a firebow and such then I could start working on improving things for myself. If the weather gets worse over time too it would give me a reason to do it. If you look at a game like Frostpunk this is largely how it works. You need to constantly improve your town to make it through progressively worse weather.

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1 hour ago, odizzido said:

I don't think I would enjoy it if every day is wake up, snare rabbit, collect wood, eat+drink, sleep. There would be no way to really better my situation or improve efficiency or mix up the gameplay at all.

If I could use bone/stone tools to make clothing and use a firebow and such then I could start working on improving things for myself. If the weather gets worse over time too it would give me a reason to do it. If you look at a game like Frostpunk this is largely how it works. You need to constantly improve your town to make it through progressively worse weather.

In ideal world, yes this is what would keep one (including me) playing for years and years and years with same characters... the ramping difficulty and players having seriously to adjust their lifestyles to comply with changing world. But right now, the game is extremely thrilling at the start, and the initial hundred days or so are fun, but after that itoften comes quite a bore with easy, tedious chores...

Edited by Mistral
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