Crotch attack, because we want to fight back!!


Kick in the crotch? The bear take-down.  

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Can a kick in the crotch be added as a quicktime event when the bear comes charging? I think, if executed just in time, you can smash his balls and send him whimpering back to his cave!

Right as he is about to maul you, there could be a choice for a kick in the crotch! Y'know, like when wolf attacks, you get all these options?

I think it should be an easy shot, but a potent one, especially if wearing something like climbing or army boots? Sneakers or makuleks could provide lesser chance for a successful bear take-down!

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QTEs are a risky business I feel. For example in Remember Me they had a bunch that were just random buttons and it was too awful to play so I quit. However in New Tomb Raider they(after the terrible intro scene, wow that was a bad intro) had QTEs where you're falling, and you press the ice pick button that you always press to use the ice pick in a QTE about falling and using the ice pick. That works much better because it fits with established gameplay mechanics and the controls you are used to.

And then we have TLD. There is no melee button so no button makes sense minus maybe the "everything" button we already use for too many actions. I don't think TLD has good enough controls or the gameplay mechanics for a QTE of this nature to make sense.

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1 hour ago, Stinky socks said:

I think it should be an easy shot, but a potent one, especially if wearing something like climbing or army boots? Sneakers or makuleks could provide lesser chance for a successful bear take-down!

increased chance with crampons.

In serious not: no. Don't get caught by a bear. Full stop.

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4 hours ago, Lycrist said:

increased chance with crampons.

In serious not: no. Don't get caught by a bear. Full stop.

Crampons! That one completely missed my brain. Weaponized, using correct techniques, it can be a potent weapon, (not just against a bear actually!)

We must have some sort of choice against a bear! It appears like something is missing when bear makes love. I mean, when the wolf gets on top of you, there's knuckles, knife, hatchet, drybar and a gun! You have this quicktime event where you choose your weapon for defense.

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I'm not sure that there should be a  way to defend yourself in bear struggles. Realistically, if a bear wants to kill you, there's not a whole lot you can do about it without the right weapon. A small hunting knife? That won't do much. A crowbar? Forget it. The revolver? Might work, might not. A hatchet? If you manage to get a solid hit on the head, it might work. The only melee weapon that should work reliably is a pike or the equivalent, if you managed to brace it securely before the charge (same as the bear spear in story mode). Fortunately, bears leave people alone IRL, so it's not something I'm concerned about when hiking ;).

However, I do think that the crampons should be useable as a weapon in a wolf struggle, under the option "kick". They are sharp, and so would be more effective than a prybar in a fight and capable of causing bleeding, though not as good as a knife or hatchet.

FYI: bears' nuts are located close to the rear end of the animal, so the only realistic way of hitting them is a sneak attack from behind. Not a trivial task.

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1 hour ago, Glflegolas said:

I do think that the crampons should be useable as a weapon in a wolf struggle, under the option "kick". They are sharp, and so would be more effective than a prybar in a fight and capable of causing bleeding, though not as good as a knife or hatchet.

I think that the Crampons utility on wolf struggles was abstractly represented by the 10% Protection value. Although i don't know if that value is designed only for attacks on the feet, or if it protects overall.

(using google translator)

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Fantastic points and thank you on clarification of nuts location.

Hmm, perhaps you are right, when bear wants to kill you, there isn't a lot human can do. It is a bad situation to end up in.

For the sake of game though, I am sure a nut attack can be implemented. Or at least an option to fire a gun. Hinterland could make it a roll doce situation where you have a chance for critical headshot and bear collapses. Now that would be epic!!

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I got a better solution:

latest?cb=20181218044245&f=1&nofb=1

^Add this to Survival mode, where only 1 exists in the world. The only way to repair it is at the Milling Station in Bleak Inlet (I know in Story Mode its repaired in the Forge but that would be WAY TOO OP). Each use in a struggle should take 5-10%, maybe even more? Also, to nerf it in Survival, bump up the weight to like 10-11Ibs (Like the weight of a climbing rope).

Not sure what skill I'd be associated with, maybe a whole new skill (For all melee weapons)? That would be interesting, where you can become better at struggles with all melee weapons as the skill bumps up.

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While I do like a challenge, I also like the game world I am in to be at least near reality. The spear wouldn't take any more skill to repair than an arrow really, so I am not up for requiring the mill. Also 5kg for a spear is just insane.....like many other weights in this game.....maybe for TLD a spear that is 200-300% of the weight of a regular spear sounds about right.

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7 hours ago, odizzido said:

While I do like a challenge, I also like the game world I am in to be at least near reality. The spear wouldn't take any more skill to repair than an arrow really, so I am not up for requiring the mill. Also 5kg for a spear is just insane.....like many other weights in this game.....maybe for TLD a spear that is 200-300% of the weight of a regular spear sounds about right.

That's just my opinion on the matter, but there's a reason for it.

If you could just easily fix the spear at any of the forges, the weapon would become overpowered. The spear itself is a VERY powerful weapon, as you can actually be in a struggle with a bear without losing any HP (If you click fast enough. Also, you take such a big condition hit if you just get attacked by the bear without the spear, which shows the difference the spear makes). Since the weapon itself is OP, there HAS to be nerfs for it, or else it would just make the game too easy. Thus, that's why I recommend it being only repairable at the milling machine (So it will really make you think before using it, as you know it has only one way to repair it, which is a challenge in itself). Next, if the spear was very lightweight, everyone would just bring it around without much thought. I think that 11Ibs/5kg is actually pretty lenient, as it is only slightly more heavy than the rifle. With it being a heavier weight (Possibly even more than 11Ibs), it will really make you think if you should bring it with you or leave it somewhere (As it will have huge benefits but also huge costs). Last, I know you didn't mention this point but I'll bring it here again: I feel there should be a huge durability hit for each struggle, as if it was only like 1% condition hit per use, you could use it ~95 times, which is just way too overpowered. That's why I proposed 5-10% condition hit per use (Which if you think about it, if you are facing a bear with a small/medium spear in pretty much 1 to 1 combat, that spear is going to take a huge hit. A bear in North America usually weighs at around 500 Ibs, so that weight on the spear is gonna make it weak for sure). Tbh I'd be fine with even like a 15% condition hit per use, as it would really make you think about your actions before you decide to use the spear.

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9 hours ago, The Orange Birb said:

I got a better solution:

latest?cb=20181218044245&f=1&nofb=1

^Add this to Survival mode, where only 1 exists in the world. The only way to repair it is at the Milling Station in Bleak Inlet (I know in Story Mode its repaired in the Forge but that would be WAY TOO OP). Each use in a struggle should take 5-10%, maybe even more? Also, to nerf it in Survival, bump up the weight to like 10-11Ibs (Like the weight of a climbing rope).

Not sure what skill I'd be associated with, maybe a whole new skill (For all melee weapons)? That would be interesting, where you can become better at struggles with all melee weapons as the skill bumps up.

I agree with @odizzido on that. The structure of a bladed spear is not too different of an arrow, or even a hammer (metal tip thing on a wooden stick). so, it would fit to be repaired on a forge, using metal and heavy wood.

About the weight, i'd be comfortable with a little exxageration, for game balance purposes.

 

I see that spear showing up in several discussions on forum, and i think it's a very viable implement. The mechanics already exists. Maybe some rework on model and/or texture would be needed to match the 'improvised' survival mode look (personally i dislike it a lot).

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Bears in TLD are probably only around 100-160 pounds. I don't remember enough to be exact anymore but it's probably around there.

I understand what you're saying @The Orange Birb, and spears are OP. It's why they were used for so long IRL. They're simple to make, easy to use, and super effective. If you're interested this guy knows a fair bit and has some interesting things to say I think.

What I would like, if possible, is to find a way to make the game more challenging without pushing the game into "because gameplay" balance. I am not sure how that would be done though. Maybe someone else would have a good idea.

 

edit----------

Apparently they're a pain to carry around.....probably especially with a bunch of other gear.

Edited by odizzido
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5 hours ago, Old Hermit said:

The structure of a bladed spear is not too different of an arrow, or even a hammer (metal tip thing on a wooden stick). so, it would fit to be repaired on a forge, using metal and heavy wood.

Yes I know that the spear can technically be fixed in the forge (As we see in Story Mode) but I feel that it would be overpowered if the Bear Spear (In Survival mode) was allowed to be repaired at the forge. I was thinking instead that it could be repaired at the Milling Station, as weapons like the Hatchet and Knife are repaired there. I'm saying for the sake of balancing that it can only be repaired there. Or who knows, maybe a new repairing station (Like the Milling Station) can be created, to repair weapons like the Spear?

4 hours ago, odizzido said:

Apparently they're a pain to carry around.....probably especially with a bunch of other gear.

...Which is why I suggested a very heavy weight for the weapon. Also, like @Stinky socks mentioned, maybe it can reduce your sprint ability while active (Or passive)?

4 hours ago, odizzido said:

without pushing the game into "because gameplay" balance.

Well, you sorta have too, because if it is left OP, other weapons will become obsolete when it comes to hunting bears. This will be a major concern for balancing if it is not nerfed in some way, which is why I presented some possible solutions.

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I'm not sure if "kicking a bear in the crotch" was really a suggestion asked in earnest (I'd tend to think not), but I'd have to say I wouldn't be in favor of adding a "kick the crotch" mechanic into this game.  I think it would feel much too silly/hokey...

As for the Bear Spear (mentioned as an alternative) by @The Orange Birb and discussed by a few others:
I'd certainly be in favor of the Bear Spear's inclusion in Survival Mode.
When Redux arrived, Raph did speak about the possibility of trying to rework the idea of the Bear Spear into something they felt was suitable for it's inclusion into Survival Mode.  In Wintermute it was more of a specific plot device, so I definitely understand why they did not included it in the sandbox at the time.

On 9/17/2020 at 7:34 PM, ManicManiac said:

I guess for survival mode I'd envision it working as more of a defensive weapon; only useful against a charging Bear (*Maybe/possibly a charging Moose).  The player would get roughed up in the struggle, and take some damage (torn clothes/bruises/bleeding wounds/sprains - basically anything we might get from a standard wolf struggle).

Even though the struggle might be potentially longer and/or more difficult than the standard wolf struggle...  if the struggle was won, there would lay our impaled foe.  (I'm thinking about that scene from the movie "The Edge" as I write this)

So... while not strictly speaking a "necessary" addition, I do think it could definitely be an interesting one.  :)

And, as I mentioned before... I only really started thinking about it after Raph spoke about it's possible inclusion in to Survival Mode.

 


***[A Note Here for Context]***
At the original time of positing, it seemed that adding it to survival was very much a goal for them.  However, it also seems that adapting it for integration into survival must have been difficult or tricky, since that hasn't yet come to fruition.  - here was one of Raph's statements back in 2018:

On 12/14/2018 at 2:11 AM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Bear Spear is a big part of Episode Two Redux. That is where it will first appear.
The Bear Spear will be added to Survival Mode in the next update.

  Per Milton Mailbag - Dispatch #1:

On 6/23/2018 at 3:31 AM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Question 4 from Twitter user @ExtremisAntares:

Quote

"How will the Bear Spear be used in the game? "The Edge" style or have you guys come up with a different method?

Thanks for the question! For the most part, we like to balance the cost/benefit equation across all our gameplay tools, so for the Bear Spear, we're balancing the benefit of a craftable weapon that could take out a Bear -- a high-value resource if you can kill it! -- with the risk of engaging with it and "failing". So right now we really like the risk of having to face the Bear up close and "pay" for the potential to win a fight. This is a riskier way than, say, shooting it with a Rifle. It also fulfills a strong wilderness survival fantasy. All that said, like most things in our game, we're constantly tweaking and refining systems so if we find a solution for the Bear Spear that we think is better, we'll change it. 

Per Milton Mailbag - Dispatch #11:

On 9/22/2018 at 2:47 AM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Question from @BESt:

Quote

How is the work with the bear spear going?

It needs more tuning work but I think it's off to a good start and feeling pretty good already.

 

Per Milton Mailbag - Dispatch #19:
"And yes, we'll add more Accessory items over time.

Question: When do you plan on adding the Bear Spear into Survival?
In a future Survival Mode update. Probably the next one. We have to make it viable with all wildlife types which is a huge amount of work."


Per Milton Mailbag - Dispatch #35:
"
Yes, we definitely want to add more Challenges to the game. We have some ideas. We were holding off on Hunted, Part III until Redux was finished, b/c of the Bear Spear and other things, so if we can, we'll wrap up this trilogy this year, and maybe add one or two more. "

 

:coffee::fire::coffee:
I think it's safe to say that the Bear Spear coming to Survival Mode is/was definitely something they'd intended on, and I would love to see it come to the survival sandbox one day.  :)

Edited by ManicManiac
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I don't know what it's like to use the spear in the game, but this game tries to represent the bear as being big so you could have it so the spear doesn't kill it quickly and the spear has a chance of breaking and there is a good chance the bear will maul you anyways. Ranged would be a safer option then.

For wolves....well, they're tiny little wolves so whether they get shot in the face or stabbed in the face I don't think it matters.

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