A few ideas for the wolves issue


Hobbesyb

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TLD is a very great game. The challenge of the weather and the survival is very tricky and encouraging to play again and again. Also very well thought. Thanks for that !

But the wolves are too hard. You don't really understand how to beat them if you don't have a riffle (which is hard to find : good), and you don't really understand why "this time", this wolf is not affraid about anything and looks like a monster which kills you whatever you do.

Some ideas to fix this highly discussed problem :

- an easier way to fight them : possibility to "equip" a hatchet, a crowbar, a knife or a wood log, and use it as a hammer on wolves by simply cliking several times at the right moment, or using them to scare or defend yourself by holding the right button

- more frightened wolves that flee you, but a few that are hungry and attack (and you can't tell from a distance which one is hungry)

- adding other potentially hazardous animals than wolves like bears or angry boars or staggs that we disturbed

- adding a few wild dogs, abandonned by inhabitants that gone agressive by starvation

- in general : more affraid by artificial light, until you leave the light

I hope this helps !

:)

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Wolves aren't that difficult after a very short time playing. Most players stop dying from wolf attacks pretty quickly.

You already equip your best weapon (knife, hatchet, prybar) when attacked.

The fight mechanism is already pretty simple and basic. The strategy on how to fight is one that needs to be learned.

There are already bears in the game.

This is supposed to be a difficult game. You WILL die just when and how is the question.

It really feels to me like you haven't played the game.

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Alright.

If I hadn't played and liked the game I wouldn't be here trying to help improve it, with my humble ideas. So, between all the reasons why my post seemed unclear to you, this one was the wrong one. Please, don't suppose what I think, ask me, it's easier and more pleasant for everyone :)

Wolves aren't that difficult after a very short time playing. Most players stop dying from wolf attacks pretty quickly.

There are 119 pages about the difficulty of the wolves on the Steam forum. So there might be something to improve there, because not all, but a lot of people don't find it funny.

We are here to give feed back. That's what I do : I, myself, find the wolves too hard, and not realistic enough to immerse myself in the game. You find it different, ok. But both our opinions are legitimate.

You already equip your best weapon (knife, hatchet, prybar) when attacked.

I said "equip" in the first meaning of it : when you equip a flare, you have it in your hand, and can activate it whenever you want, throw it, etc...

When you fight a wolf, the weapon is automatically equipped only when it's too late, when the wolf is on your throat.

What I suggest, if you take time to consider it, is that you could equip the hatchet IN ADVANCE, to be able to smash the animal BEFORE it jumps on you !

If it were you, in the wild, would you wait for the dog to be on you, or would you throw the stone to prevent it to go further ? That's only my point. Nothing strange. Nothing to ban.

The fight mechanism is already pretty simple and basic. The strategy on how to fight is one that needs to be learned.

I don't see (in any game) the point or the amusement in ravaging your mouse clicking with high frequency.

But I can understand that method when the wolf in on you : it's too late, you are panicked. Ok.

My point really was on the fact that we should be able to hit BEFORE the wolf is on you.

There are already bears in the game.

Yes. But I didn't see bears in either ML or CH. I believe they are in the third area. Therefore, I only saw many wolves, and no bears.

And if you read carefully, I also speak about boars. There are no boars in the game.

My point was about two aspects :

- Wolves are not the monsters depicted in the game, but are rather known for being affraid of humans, except if very hungry. Therefore they are not realistic in the game.

- To solve this problem (because we need animal danger in the game), a solution could be to put more variety in the species : boars, more bears, angry staggs, abandonned dogs ...

This is supposed to be a difficult game. You WILL die just when and how is the question.

I never said the opposite. But this is also supposed to be a realistic game.

It really feels to me like you haven't played the game.

It really feels to me like you haven't read my post.

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The folks including myself came down on you is that in your posts you ask for things that are already in the game.

Your posts sounded like so many others, people that chose not to read previous posts, that had little to no experience in the game and who came to the forums complaining that a game designed to be difficult was...difficult.

Take ownership of your poor communication and your lack of research.

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I'll respond point by point, calmy then.

1) This particular post on wolves didn't ask for something that was already in the game.

This particular post only said that wolves felt too hard and not realistic enough to me, i.e : making the game not amusing.

The only conlusion here is that you disagree with that, but not that my post was useless. Please don't mix things.

2) About "complaining". I'm not complaining. I've played the game and came to say what I think of it. Saying that this or this sounds not good or improvable to me is not complaining. It's called feedback.

I craft board games, and when testers tell me that they don't understand a rule, they are not complaining, they are telling me that my game is not clear enough.

But I'm complaining when I say that people come down on me for nothing, of course.

3) A game designed to be difficult has to be difficult. But "difficult" doesn't have an absolute meaning. Difficulty is different to all of us. You have to accept that some people don't see "difficulty" the same way you do. Difficulty has levels. A difficult game can be too difficult, or not enough. Again, as an example, go to the 119 pages of people saying wolves are too difficult on the Steam forums :

http://steamcommunity.com/app/305620/di ... 126633816/

4) Repeating something that has already been said.

Yes, I know I've done that, now.

But it's not possible to go through the whole of a forum before posting something.

Moreover, when you develop a game, may it be board game or videogame, if 100 people report you the same thing, this is a very important information : it means that this part of your game is not clear enough.

It feels totally normal to me that many people report the same thing in a prototype test.

And finally, it doesn't sound irritating to me that someone says something that's already been said. I would never have come down on someone on a forum for this reason. I may have given the link to older threads to the person, to help her, but not much else.

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Personally, I don't think that wolves are too difficult, I think it's just that fighting them off is not very clear and kind of odd. I would be up for a revamp of the fighting mechanic, perhaps something like a block\attack minigame.

In my opinion I think the implementation of wolves in the coastal highway and to a lesser extend mystery lake is just frustrating and misses a few opportunities for interesting gameplay. I would be interested in having much harder wolves, but less off them and less psycho aggressive. My preference would be that most wolves will only attack you if you surprise them by turning a corner next to them and that only a few would actively try and hunt you. The ones hunting you would be of particular danger, except they would keep their distance for some time while stalking you until you become vulnerable, much like they do in nature. The wolves would also be scared of the sound of gunfire unless they are too close, so taking potshots at the stalking wolves would just make them run off for a while until they get back on your trail.

This would mean that hunting wolves would still be viable, but you would actually be scared of the tough wolves which are hunting you.

I'm hoping this is what the devs have planned regarding this.

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I agree that the rapid-click mechanic is far from ideal. I usually win against the wolves but a few times I've died just because I was too slow with the button mashing. But that said, the game isn't supposed to be about wolf combat. It's already become far too wolf-centric for my liking, almost to the point that wolves are the game's furry zombies esp. on the CH map. So really the key is to make wolf combat less common and amp up more realistic issues such as weather and getting wet or sweaty. Realism, to my mind, should be the overall goal. Among other things that means rogue wolf packs out for human blood will be almost impossible to beat, even with the rifle. Taking a solo wolf on with a knife is theoretically possible, but the odds are all in favor of the teeth and claws.

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Since noone seems to have addressed it here yet: Boars, stags, wild dogs.

There are no boars in Canada. They are sometimes raised for food or for hunting, but they don't occur outside these situations. Male bears are referred to as boars (females being sows), but I do not believe that is what you meant.

Stags are another name for male deer, but they're more frequently called bucks here. They're in the game, just not angry. Did you have something else in mind? There have been multiple requests for angry moose also. just for the record, male moose and elk are called bulls..

Wild dogs. I suspect the family pets have been eaten by the wolves. Though encountering a hungry dog/cat trapped inside an abandoned house would be both startling and rather disturbing.

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Alright.

If I hadn't played and liked the game I wouldn't be here trying to help improve it, with my humble ideas. So, between all the reasons why my post seemed unclear to you, this one was the wrong one. Please, don't suppose what I think, ask me, it's easier and more pleasant for everyone :)

[shadow=blue]well spoken[/shadow]

Wolves aren't that difficult after a very short time playing. Most players stop dying from wolf attacks pretty quickly.

There are 119 pages about the difficulty of the wolves on the Steam forum. So there might be something to improve there, because not all, but a lot of people don't find it funny.

We are here to give feed back. That's what I do : I, myself, find the wolves too hard, and not realistic enough to immerse myself in the game. You find it different, ok. But both our opinions are legitimate.

[shadow=blue]so true, there is a problem thats why there are so many posts[/shadow]

You already equip your best weapon (knife, hatchet, prybar) when attacked.

I said "equip" in the first meaning of it : when you equip a flare, you have it in your hand, and can activate it whenever you want, throw it, etc...

When you fight a wolf, the weapon is automatically equipped only when it's too late, when the wolf is on your throat.

What I suggest, if you take time to consider it, is that you could equip the hatchet IN ADVANCE, to be able to smash the animal BEFORE it jumps on you !

If it were you, in the wild, would you wait for the dog to be on you, or would you throw the stone to prevent it to go further ? That's only my point. Nothing strange. Nothing to ban.

[shadow=blue]You mean like you would naturally do in a situation, not wait till its on top of you. Thank you for posting this now i dont have to.[/shadow]

The fight mechanism is already pretty simple and basic. The strategy on how to fight is one that needs to be learned.

I don't see (in any game) the point or the amusement in ravaging your mouse clicking with high frequency.

But I can understand that method when the wolf in on you : it's too late, you are panicked. Ok.

My point really was on the fact that we should be able to hit BEFORE the wolf is on you.

[shadow=blue]its boring and dosent add to the experience.[/shadow]

There are already bears in the game.

Yes. But I didn't see bears in either ML or CH. I believe they are in the third area. Therefore, I only saw many wolves, and no bears.

And if you read carefully, I also speak about boars. There are no boars in the game.

My point was about two aspects :

- Wolves are not the monsters depicted in the game, but are rather known for being affraid of humans, except if very hungry. Therefore they are not realistic in the game.

- To solve this problem (because we need animal danger in the game), a solution could be to put more variety in the species : boars, more bears, angry staggs, abandonned dogs ...

[shadow=blue]there is something in story mode to explain the wolf attacks but there are still way too many all over. Personally i would get pretty mad if i got attacked by every living thing.[/shadow]

This is supposed to be a difficult game. You WILL die just when and how is the question.

I never said the opposite. But this is also supposed to be a realistic game.

[shadow=blue]I bought it as a survival sim because that is how it was portrayed. Im pretty disappointed in alot of the mechanics. Survival happens to be one of my major interests.

[/shadow]

It really feels to me like you haven't played the game.

It really feels to me like you haven't read my post.

[shadow=blue]So True[/shadow]

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Since noone seems to have addressed it here yet: Boars, stags, wild dogs.

There are no boars in Canada. They are sometimes raised for food or for hunting, but they don't occur outside these situations. Male bears are referred to as boars (females being sows), but I do not believe that is what you meant.

Stags are another name for male deer, but they're more frequently called bucks here. They're in the game, just not angry. Did you have something else in mind? There have been multiple requests for angry moose also. just for the record, male moose and elk are called bulls..

Thats quite interesting but what we all really want to know is what do you call Canadian Bacon ?

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Off topic:

Yes to Maple Syrup!

Wikipedia has this to say about Canadian Bacon: "Canadian bacon" is United States usage for a form of fully cooked back bacon, usually smoked, trimmed into medallions, and thickly sliced.

But I would say it sounds like it's fun to watch

Back on topic:

What wolf issue? Wolfs aren't that hard if you learn to deal with them.

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I pretty like the idea of wolf being scary and deadly.

I died from them very quickly on my 4 or 5 th first attempts, so I learnt that that game is not Doom, and I started to avoid them, or, at least, make them run away with flares and torches...

They are also our best friends when they kill deer for us.

However maybe we could have more ways to kill them (trap maybe?)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Wolves aren't that difficult after a very short time playing. Most players stop dying from wolf attacks pretty quickly.

You already equip your best weapon (knife, hatchet, prybar) when attacked.

The fight mechanism is already pretty simple and basic. The strategy on how to fight is one that needs to be learned.

There are already bears in the game.

This is supposed to be a difficult game. You WILL die just when and how is the question.

It really feels to me like you haven't played the game.

Most players stop dying from wolf attacks? That's bullshit. Most players never leave the threat zone from wolfs. Weather yes, hunger yes, dehydration yes. Until end game but you never leave the danger zone of wolves unless you live in Pleasant valley permanently.

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Most players stop dying from wolf attacks? That's bullshit. Most players never leave the threat zone from wolfs. Weather yes, hunger yes, dehydration yes. Until end game but you never leave the danger zone of wolves unless you live in Pleasant valley permanently.

Sounds like a case of wolf-rage to me :o ... been there :D got over it... eventually...

edit: He said "Most players stop dying from wolf attacks pretty quickly" which I take to mean learn to survive longer around wolves rather than not dying from wolves at all.

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Again this is a question of adapting.

Why the **** do you continue to adapt to a world which can be changed in a computer.Its freaking Alpha not a rock solid final release.They can change it.

Just accept it´s not perfect.That fact that you can beat it in some finnicky way(and by that I mean getting to a higher ground because you cant jump or watch out of windows) doesnt meant it´s good game design.

Just ask yourself this.What is the impression you want people to have when you they play this game ?

If it´s getting to CONSTANTLY deal with wolves(voyageur and stalker), then why would you pick this game to play as your enemy avoiding pleasures ?

The freaking art style, surival mechanics are what sell this game not the wolves.

(My perfect difficulty - stalker with same amount of loot and and less wolves or finite wolves(meaning you can actively try to solve that problem.My main problem really is that you give too much loot in pilgrim and voyageur which again defeats the whole survivial from the elements point of the game)

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Toe Bar. I adapted by quitting.

I am burned out on the game as it is.

Patches are coming once a month now, instead of once a week.

V.200 while an improvement overall has left me unhappy with the entering and exiting of buildings taking much longer than it used to, and the wolves being a source of consternation and angst while offering little overall value in return. Nobody with any respectable PC runs a 32bit OS, nor should developers build to accommodate that, at the expense of the rest of us, unless they are retroactively programming a product that was originally released in that era of computing.

It would be one thing, A better thing for me, if the Wolves were a more majestic creature of beauty and power and not a robotic patrol goat which bites as they have implemented them. The magnitude of danger from them is so much higher than any other factor in the game, but not rightly so. There are also too many of them. If there were as many wolves in nature as their are in the surface area of these maps there would be over 1 billion wolves on the planet when really there are less than 200,000. The reason there are fewer is they NEED space.

Until they get a re-balance and or the difficulty of coming on water, or enduring the temperature become more difficult respectively, I've simply left "playing" the game for other interests.

I still come to the forums daily, remain highly interested in the idea and concept just not wild about the implementation. I also find the game is as implemented is too slow. There are not enough tasks to do, not enough things implemented Id want to do to effect survival, hunting is one, but so is trapping, so is cleaning the kills, so is gathering firewood, so is gathering supplies, and so is exploration.

It is all just very limited in implementation right now.

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All fair comments, though I don't think weekly release of updates would be sustainable with any level of quality-- and buggy updates are worse than fewer update imo.

I think the current value of wolves is the threat they pose--it sets the tone for the game. I agree they could be implemented differently though, such that the threat remains but the wolves are not the only major threat. I've supported in another thread a fourth 'difficulty' level (game mode is more accurate), where the wolves are more realistic, but there isn't a Pilgrim's bonanza of loot.

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