Bolt Cutters Would Fit Perfectly In Survival Mode

[Hotklou2404]

The Bolt Cutters item would be right at home in the Survival game mode. Just like the keypad-locked door at the Last Resort Cannery requires you to trek across the map to a radio tower to get the combination to open the door, the Bolt Cutters could be used similarly. Be it in an already existing region or in an entirely new region, the Bolt Cutters could be used as the "key" for getting into an area that is inaccessible due to it being behind a locked gate. You could even put the Bolt Cutters in a region far away from the location that it grants access to, meaning that the player will have to travel across several regions first to get the Bolt Cutters and then to get the Bolt Cutters to the gate that it opens.

EDIT 1: "Why not use the hacksaw to cut the chains instead? It can cut through metal, right?" Well for one, the hacksaw already has its uses. It is fine as-is. But the bolt cutters do not have any uses outside of that one quest in the Wintermute game mode. And if you need an explanation for why the character wouldn't use the hacksaw anyways, well then that would be because the hacksaw would not be strong/sharp enough to cut through these chains. Everything has its limits, and this is the hacksaw's unfortunate limit. Therefore, you'd need the bolt cutters to cut the chains.

EDIT 2: Perhaps the bolt cutters could instead be more similar to the pry bar. There could be many containers, doors and gates that are locked up with a chain, which you would need the bolt cutters for - no need to limit it to just one or two gates. Then there would also have to be multiple bolt cutters in the game world, not just one. They could populate all the current regions with containers, doors and gates like these that are locked with chains.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Hotklou2404

[ProsPex]

+1

And the added weight would make them inconvenient to carry around unnecessarily. When needed, you may have to travel multiple regions to get the bolt cutters and bring them to the spot which you plan to use them.

[Syraith]

Not sure how much more use bolt cutters would have over a hack saw in this region.

I do like the idea (and have mentioned others) about other areas that require more “questing” to gain access though. The cannery and mine requiring the aurora to completely access could be done in other areas. The hydro dam could have a working elevator like that, etc...

[Hotklou2404]

29 minutes ago, Syraith said:

Not sure how much more use bolt cutters would have over a hack saw in this region.

Well that begs the question: Why do the bolt cutters exist at all, then? Why introduce the player to an item that they will only use once - an item that has no use anywhere else or in any other gamemode? They should've much rather introduced the player to the hacksaw right from the start, then. But since the bolt cutters exist now, why not give it some use in Survival mode? They could make up some excuse about the hacksaw not being strong/sharp enough to cut through the chain - that only this bolt cutter can.

 

29 minutes ago, Syraith said:

I do like the idea (and have mentioned others) about other areas that require more “questing” to gain access though. The cannery and mine requiring the aurora to completely access could be done in other areas. The hydro dam could have a working elevator like that, etc...

I love that idea! There are elevators, so why not put them to use? To prevent the player from getting stuck at the other side (they wait too long and then the aurora goes away and the elevators stop working), you could have the player open up an alternative route once there to travel to and fro more easily and without need of the aurora being there.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Hotklou2404

[ProsPex]

35 minutes ago, Hotklou2404 said:

...about the hacksaw not being strong/sharp enough to cut through the chain - that only this bolt cutter can.

There are many scenarios where a hacksaw would not be able to access the item you're trying to cut with a "sawing" motion but bolt cutters would readily fit into the space.

Edited March 17, 2021 by ProsPex

[Hotklou2404]

Hmmm... perhaps the bolt cutters could instead be more similar to the pry bar. There could be many containers, doors and gates that are locked up with a chain, which you would need the bolt cutters for - no need to limit it to just one or two gates. Then there would also have to be multiple bolt cutters in the game world, not just one. They could populate all the current regions with containers, doors and gates like these that are locked with chains.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Hotklou2404

[ProsPex]

27 minutes ago, Hotklou2404 said:

Hmmm... perhaps the bolt cutters could instead function more similarly to the pry bar...

There was a glitch when Bleak Inlet was originally released.... the locker inside the Radio Control Hut required Bolt Cutters to open. You could not open it with a prybar. So the logic of requiring  a specific tool (e.g., bolt cutters, hacksaw, or prybar) to open an object is already in the code.

The Long Dark Hotfixed to V1.69 [57923] [Gameplay] Medical Locker in Bleak Inlet’s Radio Tower no longer needs Bolt Cutters.

Edited March 17, 2021 by ProsPex

[Syraith]

It’s not hard to add the requirement for a specific tool. I’ve been just trying to think of reasons why in the region of the island, a lock or chain would be requiring bolt cutters over a hacksaw. The issue also resembles that of the jumping issue. A small limb can block your path, well, a fence with a limited access lock is only as strong as the fence itself. 
Maybe bolt cutters could just be quicker access for items as you mention use the prybar for example.

A knife, hatchet, and hacksaw perform many similar duties but at different speeds. It’s not quite the same as prybar activities generally only take a moment over the 10, 30, 60+ minutes of blade work, but something along those lines.

Again, just imagining a narrative where the bolt cutters could be added as not to feel placed just because.

A military grade lock on a steel door of a bunker for example. If they were the right bolt cutters, but at the same time, why would bolt cutters of that nature be there?

[Dancewithknives]

I think what we should be asking what redundancies do the bolt cutters have?  They can cut chains, but what else would they do? I suppose they could be used for cutting up some tree limbs, but thats rather limited in that they can only reach so far.

[Hotklou2404]

3 hours ago, Dancewithknives said:

I think what we should be asking what redundancies do the bolt cutters have?  They can cut chains, but what else would they do? I suppose they could be used for cutting up some tree limbs, but thats rather limited in that they can only reach so far.

Well... the pry bar also doesn't have any use other than opening locked doors and containers does it? The different types of tools have different uses. There are those that open up doors and containers, and there are those that are used for harvesting corpses and materials. I think it's perfectly fine that way. The bolt cutters and the pry bar would be the only tools to open up doors and containers, but they cannot be used for harvesting corpses and materials like... say, the hatchet can.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Hotklou2404

[piddy3825]

These used to be in the game...  they were used in story mode in the first episode when it was first released. 
 Will had to retrieve them from the maintenance shed in Broken Railroad to cut the lock that closed the gate leading up to the hunting lodge.  As I recall it was fairly heavy and other than cutting that one lock, it had no other use in the remainder of the game.  I guess the prybar won out since you could pop car trunks as well as lockers using only one tool.  not mention that you could chisel the ice for fishing using the prybar.  seems that the lowly bolt cutter met it's match when it came to versatility of the prybar.

[Syraith]

@Hotklou2404 that was something I mentioned earlier. The issue is though that items like the sewing kit vs fish tackle, or knife vs hatchet vs hacksaw is that each give a fairly sizable difference in task completion. The prybar only take a few seconds to access a trunk/locker so a different tool would only be advantageous if the frequency of finding them were reduced. Like you only could find a prybar or cutters and the likelihood of getting both was reduced. Not to mention, the player is prying open a locker, or a trunk. Cutters would not be hugely useful other than as a blunt object bashing them in 😋

Hacksaw is a good comparable tool but kind of the same. Both can perform similar tasks but have very different primary uses.

@piddy3825 they apparently added them back in for some puzzle at the current end of the story mode. I haven’t played that far in but Hotklau mentioned their return and it’s updated on the Wiki.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Syraith

[Hotklou2404]

1 hour ago, Syraith said:

Not to mention, the player is prying open a locker, or a trunk. Cutters would not be hugely useful other than as a blunt object bashing them in 😋

As I mentioned, there would be containers (e.g. a chest or a locker), doors and gates that are locked and kept shut with chains. A prybar would not be useful against chains, but a bolt cutter would.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Hotklou2404

[Syraith]

@Hotklou2404i can see your point but to that, a chain can just as “easily” in most cases be cut with a hacksaw. And since the opening actions are minimal time consuming events, a different tool adds nothing unless you make the availability of the tools more limited or have specific items only accessible with one tool. With something like a chain or lock, I just don’t see it as something that would only require a bolt cutter. Unless it’s a specific area that you’re trying to limit access.

I guess in short, with the mechanics established in the game as they are, introducing a new tool like that would be a sizable endeavor for such little reward. Just doesn’t fit the existing format. I like the idea of realism by making access more tool specific but I just don’t see a bolt cutter being a diverse enough tool compared to the options currently available without it feeling forced. I’d rather they work on a new region or introduce it in a new game rather than add it to this one.

[Mig_zvm]

     I'd really dig some kind of blow torch myself.  Fill up the cartridges at a gas station.  Use it to start fires or melt steel.  Take apart the train tracks or something.  

     I love the idea of adding more non-electric tools into the game, bolt cutters or otherwise.

[Mig_zvm]

It'd also be nice if the bolt cutters could be used to cut an opening in a fence.

[Mroz4k]

Well, I like the idea of using Bolt cutters to create passable areas in specific locations with the chain fence. You could not cut a hole through fence with the hacksaw - it would not fit through individual links. Im sure it could theoretically be done but it would be extremely difficult. The areas that could need the use of bolt cutters would be innaccesible till then. There are plenty of locations that have chain fence in them.    

Like locations with a lot of loot, and strategic importance to the map. Think if the chain fence was intact at the Dam. This would mean that until the player cuts through it via bolt cutters, the passage from PV to ML would not be accesible. The gate for Dam could also be locked, so if anyone wants to get that loot inside, gotta need the bolt cutters. Same could be true for radio tower in PV, for example. Maintenance hut fence could be extended from rock to rock, and while accessible from the road without cutting through the fence, to make a shortcut towards the hunting lodge, a hole would have to be cut through the fence. Cutting through the fence would give player some hooks. 

That would make Bolt cutters incredibly useful, to enable the map.

[Syraith]

I would like more special access areas like that, I’m just not sold on bolt cutters.

In the sense of realism, if it’s a fence, why not just climb over? Add barbed wire and it’s still possible under realistic conditions but harder (throw a hide over a spot). The only area with that kind of security would be the dam unless something else is added in a new region. The bolt cutters just don’t seem like a diverse enough item to add it compared to other tools.

I would rather see aurora triggered events, explosives, or crampon only accessible areas personally before making something like the bolt cutters a necessity in that manner.

[s7mar7in]

41 minutes ago, Syraith said:

In the sense of realism, if it’s a fence, why not just climb over?

Agreed, this is an important aspect of this topic. I remember the bolt cutters from BR years ago and it was a bit of a negative return.

The chain-link fences in game are odd in places, (radio tower with no maintenance gate), and somewhat under-utilized in other places, (game fences at bridge leading to hunters lodge behind BR maintenance yard).

There is a risk for the game insisting on the bolt cutter item to gain access as a forced "game mechanic" not a realistic survival tool.

It reminds me of an early visit to HRV where a row of scrub brush made access/progress impossible for lack of a hatchet...I had the heavy hammer, and a flare and firewood, but no, only a hatchet would grant passage beyond that prickly hedge-row.

Edited March 18, 2021 by s7mar7in

[ManicManiac]

On 3/17/2021 at 6:50 PM, Hotklou2404 said:

The Bolt Cutters item would be right at home in the Survival game mode.

...but we already have the axes and prybars that fill the same kind of purposes (i.e. clearing scrub brush and opening locked things respectively), so to me... bolt cutters in survival just wouldn't be really necessary.

  

13 hours ago, Hotklou2404 said:

Well... the pry bar also doesn't have any use other than opening locked doors and containers does it?

It also is useful for clearing ice in the fishing huts...
They are also a defensive weapon option in struggles...

Edited March 18, 2021 by ManicManiac

[Hotklou2404]

14 hours ago, Syraith said:

In the sense of realism, if it’s a fence, why not just climb over?

Well... with that heavy backpack on your back it would be very difficult to do that. So they'd have to limit how much you can carry with you when you climb over, otherwise your character would get sprains and such. But I think that could be interesting!

Edited March 19, 2021 by Hotklou2404

[Syraith]

@Hotklou2404i agree, with the pack would be amusing. But hoisting it over or in the games case, tying a mountaineer rope to it and pulling it over for example, just saying for the sake of realism, a fence isn’t exactly an impenetrable barrier 😋

[Old Hermit]

You can't step over a half meter obstacle, and you want to climb over a security fence.

good luck

[Fuarian]

The gate in front of Carter Dam/Hunting Lodge comes to mind. Or maybe some of the mineshafts. Have a random chance that these areas are locked.

[RegentRelic]

I'd rather not have areas being gated and unlocked by a random event. The event being having a convenient bolt cutters spawn.