What is the highest point (above sea level) on Great Bear Island?

[Glflegolas]

The title says it all. Basically, I've been curious about what the highest point of Great Bear Island is for quite some time: what's the highest altitude (above mean sea level) that you can access on Great Bear Island? This is a question I intend to answer in the not-too-distant future. I have a few ideas as to where the highest point on Great Bear may be located...

• Summit of Timberwolf Mountain: In Early Access, I have no doubt that this was the highest place you could access. However, consider this: the Mountaineer's Hut is 10 meters lower than the altitude of the Pleasant Valley end of the Cinder Hills coal mine (I measured this)... so the summit of Timberwolf Mountain, while the highest point in its namesake region, is probably not the highest point on the island.
• Peak Cave: Since this Cave is called Peak Cave, I'd assume it's located near the highest point of the Hushed River Valley. It sure seems that way when you climb up to it from Monolith Lake, which is much higher than the Hushed River.
• The plateau above the Goldmine: Ash Canyon itself is fairly high above sea level (I'd assume), and you have to climb up a lot to get to the mine. So, this could very well be the highest point on Great Bear Island.

All measurements will be done using screenshots. In the event that I can't get a single answer for the altitude of a location (for example due to inconsistent sea level), I'll provide an average.

[Stinky socks]

Interesting! I am curious how you were able to figure out altitude using screenshots?

It does male sense though for summit to be really up there because you have to climb multiple ropes to get to it.

One might argue that gold mine area in ash canyon is also quite high because you're already quite high when you transition through the cave into ash canyon region and then you also climb multiple ropes to get to the mine.

[TheKnightIsDark]

Ash canyon might be my pick. There are some hills you can climb on top of even after you get to the top level

[Glflegolas]

FYI: If you take a debug screenshot using F8, that will give you the coordinates of any given location. The relative altitude of that location on the map you're on is given by the Y-coordinate.

Keep in mind that Y=0 is not the same altitude above sea level across all maps. So, in order to calculate all altitudes relative to sea level, you need to do the following (let's pretend we're trying to get the altitude of Timberwolf Mountain):

• Find out the Y-value of sea level (in other words, anywhere on the sea ice) on any map that has ocean (in this case, we'll use Coastal Highway). Now we can get the Y-value of any location of Coastal Highway and know how high it is above sea level.
• Now we need the Y-value just before we leave Coastal Highway, so we get it just before entering Cinder Hills Coal Mine. We can also easily calculate the altitude of the mine entrance, too, by subtracting.
• Immediately upon entering Cinder Hills Coal Mine, we get our Y-value again.
• We again get our Y-value just before leaving the mine. Now we know how much altitude we gained/lost while travelling through the mine, and can easily relate this to our current height above sea level via simple subtraction.
• The same process needs to be repeated immediately upon entering and exiting Pleasant Valley, and immediately upon entering Timberwolf Mountain.
• Then, we measure our Y-coordinate at the summit of Timberwolf Mountain once more.
• To get the altitude of Timberwolf Mountain, all we need to do is sum how much altitude we gained/lost while travelling in Timberwolf Mountain, Pleasant Valley, Cinder Hills Coal Mine, and Coastal Highway.

If anyone wants to try my method for themselves, by all means go for it!

[ajb1978]

I tried calculating heights once and the regions just don't line up in a way that makes sense. For instance, assume the ice in Bleak Inlet is sea level. According to F8, sea level in that region is -367 on the Z axis. Climb all the way up to the Ravine transition, and you're at 968 on the Z axis, for a total elevation increase of 1335. Once in the Ravine, your Z elevation is now -190, and at the Ravine/CH transition is 189, for a total gain of 319. Based on the original Bleak Inlet value, our total elevation is now 1654.

On the CH side of the transition, our Z elevation is now 1206, and going back down to sea level Z only reduces to 548. Nowhere NEAR where sea level should be, based on the original Bleak Inlet measurement. Similar problems arise when calculating the difference in sea level for Crumbling Highway and Desolation Point, albeit nowhere near as profound.

So with sea level being unpredictable, I'm afraid it's an impossible question. We'd have to arbitrarily declare which sea level is correct and which isn't. And I haven't even begun to calculate differences in elevation between the landlocked regions, I was just curious to see if sea level was absolute. It isn't.

[Glflegolas]

@ajb1978Something about your math doesn't seem quite right; climbing 1.6 km from sea level to the Ravine seems unlikely. According to StmSantana's map (below), sea level can't be too far off Z=0. Did you use Y coordinates instead of Z coordinated by accident?

 

[ajb1978]

Y'know what, I was actually using the Y coordinate. I just assumed the coordinates were presented in X, Y, Z format, but after comparing a couple test screenshots I see they're actually presented as X, Z, Y. I'll have to reassess, but I still am pretty sure the results are going to be comparable. The amount of verticality going from BI sea level to the railroad tracks is disproportionate from the CH railroad tracks back down to CH sea level.

I'll have some better numbers in a bit here.

Edited March 2, 2021 by ajb1978
X, Z, Y, not Y, Z, X. Bleh.

[ajb1978]

OK using ACTUAL Z coordinates, here's what I came up with.

BI Sea Level: 26.8
BI/Ravine Transition: 346.1
Total elevation gain: 319.3

Ravine Side: 19.8
Ravine/CH Transition: 135.6
Total elevation gain: 115.8

CH Side: 206.4
CH Sea Level: 24.8
Total elevation loss: 181.6

Sea level discrepancy between BI and CH: 253.5

[Glflegolas]

What if you left Bleak Inlet via the cave and walked via Forlorn Muskeg towards the ravine? That's probably going to give altitude values that are a bit more consistent with those from Coastal Highway.

Also, I think that sea levels in Coastal Highway and Crumbling Highway are roughly the same, but Desolation Point is probably a bit lower than either of those two. Nonetheless, it should still be possible to have some idea re: the highest point on Great Bear Island. To do this, calculate altitudes for each location on any map that doesn't have ocean, and do a statistical analysis. Once we have the mean altitude + SD for each location, we could say something like this:

Altitude of Timberwolf Mountain Summit: 600+-50m

This method won't provide a deterministic answer (i.e. Timberwolf Mountain is the 2nd highest location on Great Bear), but it will enable a probabilistic answer (i.e. there's a 25% chance that Timberwolf Mountain  is the highest point in-game, and a 55% chance that the highest point is near the Goldmine).

[Mroz4k]

Well, I sure am not going to mess with coordinates. I will go off using common sense with what I know of the map. The map of the island is roughly cone-shaped, with a central highest peak (I think we are not far from assuming this mountain will be called "Great bear". This one is not accesible (at least right now) and I believe its the "bigger mountain" that is very clearly seen from top of Timberwolf mountain´s summit on a sunny day. All regions of Timberwolf mountain, hushed river valley and Ash canyon are locations that are inland, close to the Great bear peak, in the "mountaineous" region of the island. As in the highest peak of the island is surrounded by smaller mountains and mountain ridges, Timberwolf mountain is one of them, so is Monolith peak (which I think might be called "little bear" based on the name of one of the water falls there...) as well as the opposing "many falls" vista peak.

Going back to the original question. Highest peak is Great bear but the question was which peak is the highest from the game accessible ones. I still believe that to be Timberwolf mountain, based on visual inspection - because from Timberwolf mountain you can spot surrounding hills but none appear to be as quite high as the only bigger one, which appears to be centered. 

Those are my two cents, I could very well be wrong, and visual inspection is precarious, but since this is a game with several years of development I dont think the coordinates can be that trusted, either.

[Stinky socks]

How many metal scrap and radio tower parts to craft an airplane? We need to see from the air:)

[Mroz4k]

27 minutes ago, Stinky socks said:

How many metal scrap and radio tower parts to craft an airplane? We need to see from the air:)

With all the spare hides lying around, one just needs a lot of lantern fuel, and some ingenuity, to craft a hot air baloon. Ought to do the job  

[Glflegolas]

You could fuel a balloon using coal too, and there's plenty of that lying around.

(Off topic, I know, but I'm still trying to think of some relatively consistent way to answer my original question)

[hozz1235]

Basing my answer on zone transitions and rope climbs, I would have to conclude that AC has the highest peaks in the game.

[Glflegolas]

5 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

Basing my answer on zone transitions and rope climbs, I would have to conclude that AC has the highest peaks in the game.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised. We should be able to calculate relatively accurately (within 20m or so if I had to guess) how high the peaks in Ash Canyon are relative to Timberwolf Mountain, given that there's only two transitions between those two regions.

The challenge will be to compare the peaks in Timberwolf Mountain/Ash Canyon to the ones in the Hushed River Valley. I think the best course of action for the Hushed River Valley peaks is to measure them by going through the transition Bleak Inlet -> Forlorn Muskeg -> Mountain Town -> Hushed River Valley. This is the most direct route from Hushed River Valley to the ocean, and doing so gives us an altitude for Forlorn Muskeg of 39m -- seems quite reasonable given that it's a relatively flat, boggy area.

For Timberwolf Mountain and Ash Canyon, the best route is probably Coastal Highway -> Cinder Hills Coal Mine -> Pleasant Valley -> Timberwolf Mountain. Again, fewer transitions is probably better for this type of calculation.

I'll ignore transitions in rail tunnels for altitude calculations -- since we can't see the other end of them, we have no idea of how long they really are, and thus we cannot say how much altitude was gained/lost walking (or teleporting) through them. If I don't make this assumption, Camp Office would be only 28 m above sea level, and that's not reasonable -- Carter Hydro Dam is so tall that using this altitude would put Pleasant Valley considerably below sea level.

[Glflegolas]

Here are a few interesting altitudes that I've got so far on my way to Hushed River Valley (relative to Bleak Inlet sea level).

• Poacher's Camp: 39
• Marsh Ridge: 123
• Milton Basin: 164
• Rocky Refuge: 218
• Paradise Meadows Farm: 381

There's still some climbing left to do to get to Mountain Town itself, so that'll easily get us to 420m I would say. Grey Mother's house will be somewhere around 450m. From there the road goes uphill to the Hushed River Valley, so, according to my calculations, an altitude of 600-650m is quite reasonable for Peak Cave. Will this verify? We'll soon find out...

[Mroz4k]

I dont know. If Timberwolf mountain isnt it, I think it would be the Hushed river valley. Forlorn Muskeg is a bit above sea level. From Bleak inlet you go uphill to reach relatively flat Forlorn Muskeg - then some climb to reach Mountain town. Then a huge climb from the basin to Milton. Then still going uphill to reach the Hushed river valley. Basically you always go up. Hushed river valley goes down a bit but then the peaks are really high up. Think the huge climb from Milton basin to even reach Hushed river valley. 

On the opposite side, going from Coastal highway, you go uphill to reach the mine, enter Pleasant Valley and go down again. PV is pretty flat, but to reach TMW you go uphill, then short rope climb. In TMW, first you go down, then slightly up, to reach the flat area around Mountaineer´s hut. Again you go down and up, but increase elevation a bit to reach the Clearing and the cave to Ash canyon. Now Ash canyon is a bit difficult with the terrain - going left would be climb, going straight would be relatively flat, sometimes going a bit uphill. The climbs here are high up, but the terrain to compare is varied. I personally go left, so there is a steep uphill route, but then it goes down to the ash canyon itselt. Then its a very challenging climb to the bearcoat peak, which leads to a climb down to gold mine. 

Based on the elevations, I would guess that as far as regions go, I think Hushed river valley is higher in elevation then Ash canyon, but in general ash canyon has higher peaks so I think they are on the similar height level, with Hushed river valley peaks maybe being a bit higher. I still think TMW is higher, it just does not seem so because of the way we climb it. Where the other peaks in question are usually steep rope climbs, TMW is a route we take, there is some changes in elevation with every step we take on the way up there, there is a change in elevation considerable with the caves we need to pass through, and then its the final climb with a rope. 

But again those are just my speculations based on experience and map knowledge, and a bit of navigational instinct.

[hozz1235]

My logic was this, based upon elevation at zone transitions (these are rough estimates):

ML = PV (we do climb slightly in the cave)
MT = ML (we climb down but back up so roughly the same)
HRV = MT (there is a gradual climb to the HRV cave)
PV < TWM (due to the rope climb to TWM)
The 'Deer Clearing' transition from TWM to AC is tricky because to get to the summit of TWM, you have quite an elevation gain, but the same goes for AC.  They may actually be really close.  I don't think we can count on the game coordinates to help us out much as @ajb1978 pointed out.

[Glflegolas]

A few more altitudes in Mountain Town & Hushed River Valley:

• Town of Milton: 420
• Trailer near Hushed River Valley transition cave: 516
• Transition cave to Hushed River Valley, Mountain Town side: 550 (altitude on HRV side: 542)
• Peak Cave: 590
• Valley Cave: 326
• Western half of the Hushed River: 383
• Lonely Cave: 563

I am not 100% sure, but I think that the altitude of Peak Cave and Timberwolf Mountain won't be too far apart. Do you think there's a higher point in Mountain Town than the HRV transition cave? If yes, please let me know.

(according to StmSantana, Peak Cave is the highest point in Hushed River Valley, although you might be able to mountain goat yourself a few meters higher somewhere around that cave)

Edited March 5, 2021 by Glflegolas
more altitudes

[ajb1978]

The highest point in the game world is Molly's Barn.

Since sea level has multiple personalities, no one can prove me wrong lol

[peteloud]

Damn it!   I have just come down from the gold mine. I wish I had checked the elevation then.  I hate all those rope climbs.  I'll go back up from the Anglers Den when the mist clears and I cook some meat for the journey.  My game is at 1306 days, it gives me a reason to continue.

 

[peteloud]

Here it is for above the mine in AC.

How does that compare with the other places?

 

[Glflegolas]

@peteloud I'll calculate your altitude for this location in a bit.

I've done some more calculations, this time for Timberwolf Mountain and area:

• Misanthrope's Homestead: 34
• Cinder Hills Coal Mine, Coastal Highway side: 153 (altitude on Coastal Highway side 147)
• Pleasant Valley to Coastal Highway transition: 219
• Crystal Lake: 143
• Timberwolf Mountain Summit: 505

So, according to my method, Peak Cave in Hushed River Valley (alt:590) is higher than Timberwolf Mountain! Even the Trailer near Hushed River Valley in Mountain Town (alt: 516) is higher than Timberwolf Mountain.

[peteloud]

There is a spot close to the mine descent rope which seems to be a little higher.

 

The spacial co-ordinates in this images puzzle me.

I haven't checked exactly where in AC it is, probably near the High Meadows viewpoint, but it looks to be quite high.

 

[Jolan]

I suspect from the picture that Blackrock will ultimately be near to the highest point.  If you look at the surrounding summit and the far distant ridge there are no trees.  You'd expect no trees near the prison, but almost every mountain so far has trees on it.  So if  it follows real world examples like Haida Gwaii the alpine zone would start betwen 800 - 900 meters.